It's a day ending in Y, meaning it's a perfect day to watch the John Wick movies; and as one is want to do when watching awesome action movies that prominently feature guns it's hard to not get yourself thinking "you know I really need to get me one of those". Of course that shotgun he uses is like 2700 bucks, maybe I can find something cheaper.. oh but those little stripper belt clips he wears are pretty neat and only 27 bucks a piece on Amazon, wonder what google has to say about them, oh nobody likes them because they're too space inefficient outside of three gun. Well that got me thinking surely soldiers know the most practical way to carry extra shells, so I start googling pictures of people clearing houses with them in Iraq but I'm not getting clear pictures of the ammo, just guys in camo stacking up on doors with shotguns at the ready. Thought maybe someone here would know, or maybe even did so first hand. What does the military do to carry shotgun shells in a tactical environment?
How do soldiers carry extra shotgun ammo?
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badkarmamib
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Never served, but I always assumed that if a shotgun was the primary weapon, roll-up pouches or cards in magazine pouches would be the first choice, similar to this:
I have no idea how they carry ammo in actual service. I was under the impression that the shotgun was a speciality entry tool, so not much ammo needs to be carried.
As for the movies, what John Wick uses is as practical as most anything else. Personally, I would rather find myself in any other action movie as pump guns tend to hold about 20 rounds and have "knock down power" that will send a 200lb man sprawling 20'. The only downside is that the chambered shell constantly disappears requiring you to pump the action everytime you enter a room or say something cool. I guess there is no such thing as a free lunch.
On a serious note, I'm not sure how much ammo one needs to carry. A 25 round box is a brick. Even spaced out, it weighs a ton. My pump gun of choice is a 20" 590a1. If I have that stuffed full of 9 rounds, I'm probably good to go. I dont like butt cuffs, but I think a saddle on my belt holding 5 more rounds of slug/buck/etc would keep me in the fight if i needed more ammo.
The nice thing about a scatter gun is that most of the time in such a situation, one is all you need. Doing the basic math of what is packed in a 00 shell x 9....that's a lot of carnage.
As for the movies, what John Wick uses is as practical as most anything else. Personally, I would rather find myself in any other action movie as pump guns tend to hold about 20 rounds and have "knock down power" that will send a 200lb man sprawling 20'. The only downside is that the chambered shell constantly disappears requiring you to pump the action everytime you enter a room or say something cool. I guess there is no such thing as a free lunch.
On a serious note, I'm not sure how much ammo one needs to carry. A 25 round box is a brick. Even spaced out, it weighs a ton. My pump gun of choice is a 20" 590a1. If I have that stuffed full of 9 rounds, I'm probably good to go. I dont like butt cuffs, but I think a saddle on my belt holding 5 more rounds of slug/buck/etc would keep me in the fight if i needed more ammo.
The nice thing about a scatter gun is that most of the time in such a situation, one is all you need. Doing the basic math of what is packed in a 00 shell x 9....that's a lot of carnage.
entropy
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DocRock
member
Can’t say what may be used today. In Vietnam, ye olde bandolier and Claymore bags seem to have been popular. A big pocket will do well too.
I was thinking something like just a big utility bag or mag dump pouch, easy to poke your hand in and yank a few shells out but stable enough to keep them in most of the time; figured someone out there had a better system though.
FL-NC
Member
Shotguns were rarely "carried" for antipersonnel use, except as a gun truck accessory. When it was, it was usually a Benelli M4 carried by the tail gunner loaded with 00. If the guys doing that carried extra ammo, it was kept nearby in a small pouch attached to the truck. When we carried shotguns on a mission, it was either 870's or 590's similar to those shockwave or TAC-14 guns, and they were carried as breacher tools- not as a primary weapon, but in addition to the M4, loaded with breacher rounds to defeat locks on interior doors. The shotgun was attached to the body armor with a bunji cord. I attached a couple of the plastic ammo holders like the one in the photo to the outside of my charge bag, and the small green pouch that held another 6 rounds was attached to the body armor. I don't recall myself or anyone else ever needing more than 3-4 breacher rounds on a mission. I think the Marines sometimes use shotguns as a primary weapon, but I can't speak for what they do.
FL-NC
Member
More like 3. The mag tubes on our guns were shortened, and we never chambered a round until we were going to fire it.
ApacheCoTodd
member
I used Brit L1A1 pouches, claymore bags and SAW pouches.
This is one of my last claymore bags and I still carry 12 Ga in it to this day. The ammo pouches - not so much, as I don't use any type of web-gear anymore.
I specifically disliked any loops or bandoleers, preferring bulk dumps that started with the pockets of our OG-107 blouses. Running steady re-loads from a bulk stash worked better than dedicated loops or bandoleers for me.
Also, first-aid kit pouches were good for smaller amounts. The ones you stole from USAF aircraft.
I still have one of those floating around too for short walks.
Todd.
This is one of my last claymore bags and I still carry 12 Ga in it to this day. The ammo pouches - not so much, as I don't use any type of web-gear anymore.
I specifically disliked any loops or bandoleers, preferring bulk dumps that started with the pockets of our OG-107 blouses. Running steady re-loads from a bulk stash worked better than dedicated loops or bandoleers for me.
Also, first-aid kit pouches were good for smaller amounts. The ones you stole from USAF aircraft.
I still have one of those floating around too for short walks.Todd.
A friend who was an Army Ranger said as a gag durimg a kill house drill one of their guys carried a Mossberg 590 and had a slightly with shell holders, a butt cuff, and side saddle. He also stuffed his cargo pockets with shells and the mag pouches with shells. I was told the result was quite funny and that the poor guy could barely raise his arms afterward.
John Wick is a good gun porn movie and we must treat it as such.
John Wick is a good gun porn movie and we must treat it as such.
All I'm saying is with the right pile of accessories, overpriced guns, and totally practical molle setups I could definitely fight my way through a 24 man swat team wearing bullet resistant head to toe armor. Practice? Does brownells sell that?
Only time I was issued a shotgun (ammo dump guard stateside) my few extra rounds were carried in my front right trouser pocket.
I took a two day shotgun class with a Mossberg 500 GS and plastic (been thinking about getting wood every since for the extra weight and looks)
Started with a side saddle and ended (despite the instructors opinion of them with) a butt cuff with eleastic loops. I also used a over the shoulder loop bandoleer (ee-ha ride with Poncho!) with buck up front and slugs in back.....and a couple of loose rounds in my front right trouser pocket even if the handgun made them harder to get to.
In WWII there was an ammo pouch for the 12 gauge and it fit on the Load bearing belt and was rectangular. It had a lift the dot fastener on a flap and inside were IIRC 10 canvas cartridge loops five front five back, might have been 12 rounds though. I believe someone is making repros of them but can not recall who.
-kBob
I took a two day shotgun class with a Mossberg 500 GS and plastic (been thinking about getting wood every since for the extra weight and looks)
Started with a side saddle and ended (despite the instructors opinion of them with) a butt cuff with eleastic loops. I also used a over the shoulder loop bandoleer (ee-ha ride with Poncho!) with buck up front and slugs in back.....and a couple of loose rounds in my front right trouser pocket even if the handgun made them harder to get to.
In WWII there was an ammo pouch for the 12 gauge and it fit on the Load bearing belt and was rectangular. It had a lift the dot fastener on a flap and inside were IIRC 10 canvas cartridge loops five front five back, might have been 12 rounds though. I believe someone is making repros of them but can not recall who.
-kBob
you might try googling this...
12 Gage Shotgun, 10 Shell Ammo Pouch NSN 8465-01-558-4476
for todays issue.
-kBob
12 Gage Shotgun, 10 Shell Ammo Pouch NSN 8465-01-558-4476
for todays issue.
-kBob
entropy
Member
Try Charley's Surplus or IMA.
There is also an individual med kit pouch that holds a box of shells perfectly:
I used to use these before I bought a Trap vest when I was a kid:
I also have a Claymore bag, and several Trap vests and half vests, and pouches.
lemaymiami
Member
I never carried a shotgun when I was in Vietnam (except as an "anti-hitchhiker" tool when I was out and about in a jeep...). I was never a combat type so I was very casual about it - with a small musette bag with 30 to 50 shells. Years late as a cop I came back to using a shotgun whenever we were on a call that might even possibly involve weapons - and did my best to learn everything I could about basic riot guns...
The problem for officers is that your popper is carried in the trunk and keeping extra rounds in good condition requires some doing... I quickly abandoned the idea of any kind of open bandoleer since your rounds quickly looked pretty shopworn and just plain dirty. Spare ammo needed to be as accessible as my shotgun - and in pristine condition, even if hot calls only happened rarely while the weapon and ammo lived in the patrol car's trunk... A case for the shotgun kept it clean and ready. Here's what I came up with for extra rounds... Those old cloth bandoliers for M-16 mags are just perfect for the five round boxes that 2 3/4" 12 ga. rounds come in... I cut out the bottom of each box (carefully leaving the identifying end intact on the box - the inserted each box of shells in one of the magazine pockets... Those old M-16 bandoliers hold seven mags but I only carried four to six boxes of ammo - as my ready load.
In use, I loaded standard 00 buck in the center pouches and two boxes of slug (one on each end of the bandolier). When you needed spare rounds you simply pulled the cardboard box cover, discarded it, and you had five rounds in each mag pouch - ready to go... with the labels on the top portion of the box you could tell at at glance what flavor of ammo you were reaching for - worked like a charm. I was able to sling that bandolier across my chest - and still maneuver as needed to get where things were happening...
I'm very happy I never needed it at all. At the time I was concerned that one of my crew might run into automatic weapons on the street down here in paradise (south Florida) and need some real firepower to get out of a bind... In my era (1973 to 1995) this was not a fantasy at all since our local cowboys were fond of every kind of spray and pray weaponry... Unlike the movies though - most cops will do a complete career and never fire a single shot on the street so having what you needed - and in perfect condition, was always a concern... even if you never fired a shot at a live target. The one time I did need to use a shotgun on the street I was totally un-prepared for it (not to mention all the stuff that happened afterwards..). That's why I made a point of staying sharp and learning every bit I could about using one when it was all on the line....
Glad I'm long out of that world and in another line of work....
The problem for officers is that your popper is carried in the trunk and keeping extra rounds in good condition requires some doing... I quickly abandoned the idea of any kind of open bandoleer since your rounds quickly looked pretty shopworn and just plain dirty. Spare ammo needed to be as accessible as my shotgun - and in pristine condition, even if hot calls only happened rarely while the weapon and ammo lived in the patrol car's trunk... A case for the shotgun kept it clean and ready. Here's what I came up with for extra rounds... Those old cloth bandoliers for M-16 mags are just perfect for the five round boxes that 2 3/4" 12 ga. rounds come in... I cut out the bottom of each box (carefully leaving the identifying end intact on the box - the inserted each box of shells in one of the magazine pockets... Those old M-16 bandoliers hold seven mags but I only carried four to six boxes of ammo - as my ready load.
In use, I loaded standard 00 buck in the center pouches and two boxes of slug (one on each end of the bandolier). When you needed spare rounds you simply pulled the cardboard box cover, discarded it, and you had five rounds in each mag pouch - ready to go... with the labels on the top portion of the box you could tell at at glance what flavor of ammo you were reaching for - worked like a charm. I was able to sling that bandolier across my chest - and still maneuver as needed to get where things were happening...
I'm very happy I never needed it at all. At the time I was concerned that one of my crew might run into automatic weapons on the street down here in paradise (south Florida) and need some real firepower to get out of a bind... In my era (1973 to 1995) this was not a fantasy at all since our local cowboys were fond of every kind of spray and pray weaponry... Unlike the movies though - most cops will do a complete career and never fire a single shot on the street so having what you needed - and in perfect condition, was always a concern... even if you never fired a shot at a live target. The one time I did need to use a shotgun on the street I was totally un-prepared for it (not to mention all the stuff that happened afterwards..). That's why I made a point of staying sharp and learning every bit I could about using one when it was all on the line....
Glad I'm long out of that world and in another line of work....
EmGeeGeorge
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I was Navy but the molle gear straps held extra 12 gauge rounds just fine for my compatriot when we were on dep.... and in various pockets.
Lemay,
North Florida LEOs used dash mounts into the 1980's as did FHP and when I got to Oklahoma in 81 the Sheriffs dept in my county and city cops in Lawton did as well.
This is how I learned (thankfully second hand) that a Foster slug easily penetrates the roof of a Ford...
The vertical dash rack was handy for those with brains enough to leave the chambers empty and gun cocked.
Your .30-30 Model 94 or M1 Carbine was in the trunk. FHP in the early 70's still had Thompsons in the trunk, about 1975 they swapped them all for Colt SP1 AR 15s
Most north Florida folks thought of Miami-Dade as sort of Baja New York / Little Havana and you folks tended to do things different down yonder
Thanks for the tip on using a rifle ammo bandoleer.
-kBob
North Florida LEOs used dash mounts into the 1980's as did FHP and when I got to Oklahoma in 81 the Sheriffs dept in my county and city cops in Lawton did as well.
This is how I learned (thankfully second hand) that a Foster slug easily penetrates the roof of a Ford...
The vertical dash rack was handy for those with brains enough to leave the chambers empty and gun cocked.
Your .30-30 Model 94 or M1 Carbine was in the trunk. FHP in the early 70's still had Thompsons in the trunk, about 1975 they swapped them all for Colt SP1 AR 15s
Most north Florida folks thought of Miami-Dade as sort of Baja New York / Little Havana and you folks tended to do things different down yonder
Thanks for the tip on using a rifle ammo bandoleer.
-kBob
lemaymiami
Member
As a patrolman my shotgun was in a vertical rack on the dashboard- Right where you could count on it doing something ugly to you if you were ever in a wreck... One day, still a patrolman, I had to attend court on duty with that shotgun still locked in that vertical electro-lock, parked right in front of the courthouse... While I was in court there a sudden summer downpour- when it ended there had been several purse snatches, my patrol car had been entered and the shotgun had been ripped out of the supposedly secure rack... All in about 15 minutes... My agency did everything possible to find that theft being my fault so I never forgot it... When I made sergeant those vehicles never had racks so I was lucky enough to be able to keep it in the trunk -where it belonged. That’s where it always stayed for the rest of my career until it was needed. All of that was a long time ago - and yes, South Florida was a very bad place back then...
Cheapest and most common method of carrying extra ammo? We don't/didn't. What was in the firearm was what was there. Most of the time, the 12ga pump was used as a special firearm. Blasting off doors or specialty rounds for a whole host of missions. Way down the list was the pump issued out as a primary arm. There were some instances where our interpreters or contractors tagging along drew a Mossberg. Another method of carrying extra ammo is looped into the MOLLE straps on vests and on the outside of all military gear since the 00s. Other pouches on web gear can be repurposed to carry shotgun shells. For example the pouch that some of our SAW gunners carried drums in could hold a good amount of shells. Depending on maker and size.
https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Modular-Saw-Drum-Pouch/dp/B01CQ07HIO
https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Modular-Saw-Drum-Pouch/dp/B01CQ07HIO
I was perusing the other replies... a lot of options will work. I recall there's an outfit on eBay that sells period-correct stuff... a bunch of it is WW2. So, for 12guage, they have these handy-dandy khaki canvas 12rd pouches with belt loops to fit on the M1936 web belt. I'd guess four pouches which holds 48rds total, or six pouches for 72rds. Don't forget your M1936 suspenders 'cause that's gonna get heavy before you add a sidearm and canteen.
Edited to add... Since this thread started with a movie reference... y'all ever watch "The Wind And The Lion"? One of the Marines had a Winchester 1897, and IIRC, back then they were supposed to have used a canvas cartridge belt. Then there was "The Rough Riders" which was set a very few years earlier... old guy with a hammer double blasting his way up San Juan Hill. IIRC, he had a canvas belt.
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STOLE?!?! That always sounded so... so illicit to me. I preferred to think of it as "requisitioning through alternate supply channels." Sounds much more official that way.
bannockburn
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I still have a couple of the old WWII U. S. Army canvas shotgun pouches which hold 12 shells. Work pretty good and have held up fairly well over the years.
entropy
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