I would like to reload my ammo by what type of powder the Ammo Manufacturer uses. How would I find out? Does it really matter? I have noticed that most ammo powder manufacturers use different powder at different amounts but have the same fps speed and ft pounds of energy. WHY so many Variables? Thank you,
How do you know what powder is used in your ammo?
- Thread starter 74man
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Chemists and ballistics engineers/scientists mix that stuff up to meet a performance standard using whatever is in the bin or that they have available to blend that burns at the rate required. It might not be the same powder or blended powders that they used previously, or a year from now.
It is why they are paid the big bucks.
Doing that is probably a lot cheaper than milling an absolute 'standard' like the cannister powder we buy off the shelf for reloading.
It is why they are paid the big bucks.
Doing that is probably a lot cheaper than milling an absolute 'standard' like the cannister powder we buy off the shelf for reloading.
AJC1
Member
They close bomb test each lot of powder they receive and develop in a test fixture with pressure equipment. You can do that as they sell pressure trace pizo electric guages to the public. Most just use load tables and canister grade powders which are held to tight tolerances to work with the tables and still be safe. When you load for yourself what they use doesn't matter.
.308 Norma
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WestKentucky
Member
The answer to the original question is that there’s not a way to know what’s in a factory load. The answer to how I know what I used in MY loads are that I use different head-stamps for different loads, and if I don’t differentiate by headstamp then I use a different bullet or different primer. There’s always a way to at least return a loose load to its proper pile.
Palladan44
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Welcome to The High Road. You will learn a lot here.
Don't try to reverse engineer ammunition, it will be of no help to you. Even if (this is very hypothetical) you did know a certain powder was in a certain factory load (which we dont), there are lot to lot variances between those powders and matching it grain for grain/bullet for bullet would likely yield different, possibly catastrophic results.
What matters is end performance, period.
Whatever it takes to get there, while staying safe. Follow reloading instructions to the -T and start at the starting charge. With time you will find that Taylor made handloads crafted for your specific firearm will perform better than any factory load ever could. Factory loads are manufactured to perform safely in EVERY firearm out there.
Absolutely, I know I have.
LiveLife
Member
I too was curious and pulled different factory rounds apart to see in this thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/factory-rounds-pulled.706260/
This is 9mm Federal 115 gr FMJ with hollow base bullet in .FC. case with two "."s. Powder charge measured 5.7 gr and from Speer load data that came close to bullet weight and velocity was BE-86 with 6.3 gr max charge.
This is 45ACP Remington 230 "FMJ" on the box (But as you can see, base is covered meaning it's plated RN) and powder charge measured 4.0 gr that looked like fine sand No. 2 (But load data doesn't match so not sure what powder at 4.0 gr could produce full power load) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/factory-rounds-pulled.706260/#post-8782418
As some other members already posted, many OEM ammunition manufacturers buy available powders in large batches at lowest auction price and use sufficient powder charges to meet velocity requirements by application whether slower target/practice ammunition or faster full power/JHP premium ammunition. And since different lots of powder ammunition manufacturer buys could have differing burn rate, powder charges could vary to produce same velocities.
Since retail "canister" powders require more exact burn rate to powder charge requirements to match published load data, it is more costly to use "canister" powders for ammunition. There are some exceptions where "canister" powders match ammunition sold like some Winchester powders. One rumor is BE-86 has been used by OEM manufacturers to load premium JHP ammunition for decades and I can guess that could mean Speer Gold Dot/Federal HST could have been loaded with BE-86.
To me no.
For decades, I used WSF to load duplicate factory/JHP ammunition I used for SD/HD to load practice rounds using same Gold Dot/Golden Saber JHP projectiles. When I compared various factory JHP rounds with my USPSA match rounds meeting major/minor power factors, POI deviated from POA only by around an inch lower at 15 yards.
I also noticed, factory/JHP ammunition recoil was snappier indicating they were using powders faster burning than WSF, which produced milder "push" recoil. FYI, I used Red Dot/Promo for 9mm and 45ACP general range practice loads for decades and 9mm PCC carbine loads in recent years and Red Dot/Promo often came close to replicating most factory/JHP ammunition felt recoil.
In recent years, I replaced WSF with BE-86 due to higher velocities and greater accuracy it produced in 9mm/40S&W loads but now that Vista Outdoor split off ammunition companies including Alliant Powders driving the price of lowest cost Promo and my favored BE-86/Sport Pistol much higher than other Hodgdon/Accurate/Ramshot/Shooters World powders, I may replace Promo/Sport Pistol/BE-86 with No. 2/Clean Shot/Vectan Ba9.5/Competition/Titegroup/Zip/W244/WSF/Auto Pistol/Vectan Ba9/Silhouette/CFE Pistol/Auto Comp (And no, it looks like W231/HP-38 is not going anywhere, despite the past rumors ... my reference powder for 9mm and 45ACP) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ble-powders-during-component-shortage.890865/
So I do not believe it really matters as long as you can replicate the velocities of factory rounds.
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Riomouse911
Member
As the guys said above; Most, if not all, major ammo makers have proprietary powder blends that were mixed and tested to reach specific performance parameters. Like motor oil companies and Colonel Sanders, they don't share their secret recipes with their competitors or the general public.
What I do is figure out what bullet/powder/primer combo that I have on hand suits my intended purpose, and I create my loads using published data to approximate their results. I try to keep a variety of powders, primers and bullets on hand so a variety of things can be created, but sometimes that is easier said than done today.
I don’t redline my vehicles and I rarely push maximum with my loads, as I have seen that max loads are not usually the most accurate loads in my guns (Some heavy loads can be very accurate, though.) Its all up to shooting your loads in your guns to see how they do.
Like the guys said, if you post what you want to do, and also post what components you have on hand, the folks here at THR will be happy to help you figure out a load to help you out.
Good luck!
Stay safe.
What I do is figure out what bullet/powder/primer combo that I have on hand suits my intended purpose, and I create my loads using published data to approximate their results. I try to keep a variety of powders, primers and bullets on hand so a variety of things can be created, but sometimes that is easier said than done today.
I don’t redline my vehicles and I rarely push maximum with my loads, as I have seen that max loads are not usually the most accurate loads in my guns (Some heavy loads can be very accurate, though.) Its all up to shooting your loads in your guns to see how they do.
Like the guys said, if you post what you want to do, and also post what components you have on hand, the folks here at THR will be happy to help you figure out a load to help you out.
Good luck!
Stay safe.
LiveLife
Member
When wife wanted her C5 Z06 Corvette, she thought the redline on the tachometer was the shift point ...
... "No honey, you don't have to redline before shifting. Besides, you can even start off in second gear instead of peeling out in first with traction control off, like Magnum P.I. (Soft sticky compound tires ran $400 each). And no, you don't need to hit 100 mph on the freeway onramp before having to slow down to merge when you floor the gas pedal" ... As @Riomouse911 posted, if you want to push the velocity limits, consider using new brass or known once-fired brass (Brass you saw go from factory box to gun to range floor). If you are using mixed range brass with unknown reload history, consider using high-to-near max load data to lower pressures.
Similarly, unless you are using moderately slower burning powders that produce optimal accuracy at near max/max load data, most powders around W231/HP-38/WSF to BE-86/CFE Pistol/Auto Comp can produce accuracy at high-to-near max load data - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ble-powders-during-component-shortage.890865/
Palladan44
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They also engineer in safety parameters to the situation. Call it fudge factor. For example, case fill.
If a case was accidentally topped off with the powder they're using by one of their machines, they ask themselves.....will it be a grenade and put an end to our business? This engineering control parameter is built into the system in how they select their powder formulation for their loading. This typically completed by using the slowest burning and best case filling powder available for the caliber. Yes, modern machines do check charge weights, but that's only one line of defense. Machines can fail.
BE-86 (a similar powder to the better known Power Pistol) or WIN 244 just happen to give the best velocity and case fill for most standard semi auto pistol cartridges. Wink wink.
WW-296 / H-110 or Lil Gun just happen to give the best velocity and case fill for most magnum pistol calibers. Cough cough.
They must use extra caution when loading modern .38 special ammunition because nothing fills that case all the way these days.
My guess is they avoid the commercial equivalent of Blue Dot
my guess is their lawyers won't let em!
If a case was accidentally topped off with the powder they're using by one of their machines, they ask themselves.....will it be a grenade and put an end to our business? This engineering control parameter is built into the system in how they select their powder formulation for their loading. This typically completed by using the slowest burning and best case filling powder available for the caliber. Yes, modern machines do check charge weights, but that's only one line of defense. Machines can fail.
BE-86 (a similar powder to the better known Power Pistol) or WIN 244 just happen to give the best velocity and case fill for most standard semi auto pistol cartridges. Wink wink.
WW-296 / H-110 or Lil Gun just happen to give the best velocity and case fill for most magnum pistol calibers. Cough cough.
They must use extra caution when loading modern .38 special ammunition because nothing fills that case all the way these days.
My guess is they avoid the commercial equivalent of Blue Dot
my guess is their lawyers won't let em!
sparkyv
Member
If you are still curious...
The now defunct 10mm firearms forum used to have an extensive database on pull downs.
The now defunct 10mm firearms forum used to have an extensive database on pull downs.
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