how do you work up loads (.38 special)?

[1KPerDay]

Hi,
I've loaded a few thousand rounds each of .40, .45, 9mm, and .380 so far, and not as many .38 specials (mostly because I don't shoot them a lot). I have very little time for working up a load (lots of kids, busy life) so up to this point if I find a load that's accurate and reliable in my semis I stick with it.

I've been trying to find an accurate load for my S&W M10 with 2" barrel, using old Markell 158gr LRN pills. They are .696" in length, and have a crimp groove, and no bevel at the base. I've been seating them past the crimp groove to the front ledge (where the ogive begins) because otherwise they're longer than any suggested length I've found for LRN loads. Mine are at 1.48".

I went through a few loads of Herco with mixed success... the lighter loads were pretty accurate but left lots of unburnt powder and crap, which I prefer to avoid shooting indoors. I switched to HP-38 and accuracy hasn't been stellar but not bad, and they're cleaner but still have a few flakes (no big deal).

So here's my question (as well as requesting feedback on info above): generally, when working up a load, do you load all different charges to the same OAL and find the one that's most accurate, and then start messing with crimp, OAL, etc.? Or do you load a few versions of the same charge with different crimps, OAL, etc.?

I'm just trying to save myself the most work. I guess one method isn't really more efficient than the other, is it? (unless you take into account the time spent adjusting dies for crimp, etc.)

The 3.7 grain and max (4.4 grains according to Hornady) loads are pretty encouraging... should I load some seated out to the crimp groove and try different crimps now, leaving the charge the same? Where would you experienced revolver reloaders go from here?

thanks as always

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You are supposed to crimp in the supplied crimp groove supplied by the bullet maker. That is the correct OAL. Unlike semi-auto bullets the revolver bullets have a set crimp groove which is set by the manufacturer and that's what you should use.

Try 4.0gr W231/HP-38 under that 158gr LRN bullet and I'm sure you and your M10 will be very happy with that load.

 

[1KPerDay]

It didn't seem too happy at 4.0 where they're seated now, but I'll try a few crimped to the groove. Thanks

 

[rcmodel]

I never hardly ever work up loads for handguns, other then they must be 4-F when I get done.
Feed, Fire, and Function, Freely.

Although I shot Military NRA Bullseye competition at a high level in my younger years?
Was never able to stand on my own hind legs and tell the difference between 3.7 and 4.0 grains as far as accuracy goes.

A Ransom Rest maybe, but not on my own hind legs!


I think working up loads is very necessary in high-power varmint & target rifles.

Not so much in .38 Spl revolvers.
The secrets to match level accuracy with them was discovered about 80 years ago.
And it hasen't changed any lately.

rc

 

[Eb1]

I am going keep my load testing with 240 to 255 grain bullet weights. For me lighter bullets especially jacketed bullets were a bust. Also I will keep the speeds down around 680 to 800 feet per second.
This is from a Rossi M720 3" fixed sight model.

I figure a 255 grain gas check Beartooth bullet with a .340 cal meplate at an estimated 730 feet per second would be a good SD round.
Does any think it wouldn't?

As far as pushing the limit of the .44 Special, I will leave that to .44 magnum.

I think I will go with 2400, imr4227, and Trail Boss this next go round.

 

[.22-5-40]

Hello, 1KPerDay. As ArchAngleCD posted..the bullets crimp groove determins correct O.A. length...However as with most things in life..there are exceptions. Such as the Keith designed Lyman 357429..this was designed for the .38 Spec. When crimped in groove & loaded in a S&W Mod. 27..it's nose will protrude from end of cyl! In this case, crimping is done on front edge of first band.
And when loading the old Lyman 457190 .45 long-colt bullet..there is no crimp groove. Crimping is done on bullets ogive.
When working up accuracy loads, I usually vary powder charge weights in .5gr. increments..refining down to .3gr. Now I need an adjustable diopter on my shooting glasses these days, and am certainly no expert, but at 10 to 25yds., a .3gr. change can certainly be noted..if everything else is dialed in at that point. This is not offhand shooting..but sitting with back supported & elbows between knees.

 

[1KPerDay]

Well initial results with HP-38 and the proper OAL and light to moderate crimp into the groove were good; 4.5 grains was pretty accurate, 4.1 grains was pretty accurate, and 3.8 grains was the best, with 10 rounds going into about a 1-inch hole at 21 feet. Residue is about the same as with factory speer gold dot 125gr +P and Buffalo Bore standard pressure low flash short barrel 158 LSWCHP, both of which felt SIGNIFICANTLY hotter than my "max" loads (the BB loads felt about 2X hotter). Both of the factory loads were less accurate than any of my reloads. I'm more convinced than ever that lawyers are slowly working down the "max" recommended by factories and powder makers to ridiculously low levels. Some have you starting at 3.1 grains. I imagine those really plop out of the barrel with authority.

Thanks for the help; I think I'll stick with 3.8 for now (as that's what my auto-disc throws; the next one up throws 4.2).

 

[FROGO207]

I always go for the lowest load that is still accurate (shoots to POA) with the 38 SPL and target shooting. Note with several propellants that the lower the pressure the dirtier the barrel. If you have any Trail Boss it is worth a try, I get good case fill and clean burning in my 2 inch, 4 inch, and 6 inch revolvers.

 

[1KPerDay]

I tried some TB with some 148g WC and didn't get that good of results... I'll have to try some with these 158s. The suggested TB load was something ridiculous like 2 grains, which is a pain to measure accurately with TB. I resorted to using a scoop which slows everything down considerably.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Honestly, for handgun rounds my "load workup" follows rc's posted method. They just have to fit, fire and function. And with revolver rounds, "function" is greatly simplified over autoloader cartridges. Does it fit in the cylinder? Primers seated just below flush? Good to go.

Reloading .38 Special is one of the few places where experimenting is fruitless IMO. Get a some small pistol primers, some 158gr SWC, put 3.7-4.0gr of 231 in the case and go shoot. Next question.

I've only once run into a real dog of a handgun load, and it was something I was trying in .44 Special. The worst part is I don't remember exactly what it was now, but I think I was trying to make some real powder-puff ammo with 200gr RNFPs.

 

[BCRider]

Of course the thing with the M10 is that the loads have to come out at just the right velocity to hit at the POA. From there the fussy stuff comes with finding the powders and bullet hardness and all that stuff that generates the tightest groupings if target shooting is the goal.

For a long time I was using 3.6 gns of Bullseye behind a cast 158gn RNFP lead pill. This load shoots nicely to the M10's POA using the regular "combat" sighting method with the sights aligned with the intended POI.

Another very mild shooting load that is the acknowledged standard for bullseye events is the 148gn HBWC pushed by 2.9gns of Bullseye. My own M10 again shot very nice tight groups with that load right on the POA.

I've sinced switched to Tightgroup for my handgun powder of choice because it burns a little more cleanly and it's not temperature sensitive like I found the old bullseye I was using to be. I need to work up a load for my M10 with the TG but I'll still use the 158gn bullets for that gun due to the fixed sights.

 

[4895]

My go to load in 38 special with 158 grain lead/plated bullets is an anemic 3.5 grains of W231 but is very accurate for me. I like to use it for trigger control practice. My wife likes that load because it doesn't hurt her hand as much and she can shoot a few hundred rounds at the range instead of only 50 or so standard loads. I can shoot ragged hole double action groups offhand at 10 yards on a good day and I get up to 2000 rounds per pound. I am sure it has plenty of power for small game hunting and even personal protection.

 

[1KPerDay]

Reloading .38 Special is one of the few places where experimenting is fruitless IMO. Get a some small pistol primers, some 158gr SWC, put 3.7-4.0gr of 231 in the case and go shoot. Next question.

Looks like I arrived at the correct conclusion, then.