How does Pietta and Cabela’s sell these high quality revolvers at such a low price.

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Palehorseman

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Today, from Cabela’s I received a Pietta 5.5 inch barreled 1858 Remington, cost was $229.95 and included a free (normal $69.99) Cabelas .44 caliber starter kit. (which I really don’t need, but is nice anyway) I also have another 1858, but it is the 8” barreled target model with adjustable sights. Both of these revolvers are tight and lock up like a safe.

But what amazes me, is how does Pietta and Cabela’s manage to sell these high quality revolvers at such low prices. My 1858 target is more accurate than any other hand gun I have, or had, to include a Colt Python .357 and Colt Gold Cup .45 acp.

I also have a Kurtz .45 Colt cylinder which fits both revolvers like a custom glove and locks up tight as the OEM C&B interchangeable cylinders, of which I have four. I wanted the 5.5” barrel for carry and am looking forward to shooting it with both the C&B and Kurtz .45 Colt Cylinders.

P10106922.jpg
 
I am not a big BP revolver shooter. But I own several and used to shoot them on occasion (I haven't shot one in a few years now).
Anyway, at one point I got a flyer in the mail from Cabellas and they had a 1860 Colt for $119. I was flush with money at the time and I ordered it.

Like you, I couldn't believe how nice it was. And I was really impressed with the accuracy of it. Granted, the sights shot about 2 feet high, but it would shoot a very nice tight group. All shots touching was a bad group.
 
Santa just brought me the 1860 Army from Cabelas and, like you, I'm amazed at the high quality for the price. I can't find a thing wrong with it---even the wedge can be removed and replaced without a fuss!
 
It's not just the new ones. I've got 15 and 20 year old Colt open top styles from Uberti, Armi San Marco, Navy Arms and at least one other outfit I don't recall. Once tuned up a little so the barrel wedge correctly locks the barrel to the arbor and with the sights tuned up all these guns shoot amazingly tight groups. As good or better than any of my modern cartridge guns be they semi or revolver.
 
They are great if you dont shoot them. Some are even flawless

Some of them you will see the little issues when you start to shoot em. Thats when the little issues start to popup.

Ive found the Remingtons need slightly less work then the colts to shoot good.

So far of all the repros i have ide say are about 90% finished.

The only one i have that was about 99% was my shooter model but i still had to put a dovetail front sight on it to finish it up. Ide say mine is 100% now.
 
OK, given the various cons I've read, both here and elsewhere, exactly WHERE should I go to get a Colt 1851 in .36 caliber as a reasonable Confederate shooting replica for my wife?

I would not expect a lot of shooting of the piece by my wife...occasional target shooting, possibly the odd demonstration shoots here and there.
 
The CSA's most common revolver was not brass framed it was either a pre war, smuggled in, or battlefield pick up 1851 navy or 1860 army. The CSA'best commissary was the union army. They even nicknamed general Banks commissariat Banks because of the amount of material Jackson took off him.

Probably less than 10% of CSA revolvers were brass framed

Is this for reenactor use or other
 
And in many instances, when Union forces captured CSA gun powder, they would discard their own and take the CSA powder. Many may not realize that during the civil war, the Confederates were producing huge volumes of the finest quality black powder in the world.

When foreign dignitaries visited, they could not believe how modern the works and actual methods of production were. An Englishman from the large powder works in England was amazed how far ahead the Confederate powder works were as compared to their own.

There is an excellent free book, “Never For Want of Powder” from digilibraries.com (see link). Can either be downloaded as a file or read online. I downloaded it to my Kindle and found it fascinating reading

http://www.digilibraries.com/ebook/107402/History_of_the_Confederate_Powder_Works/

https://www.google.com/#q=never+for+want+of+powder+the+confederate+powder+works
 
Outstanding post, Palehorseman! I downloaded and read the book, and highly recommend it to those interested in black powder firearms. The author's description of the seven men killed during an explosion of black powder was so detached and matter-of-fact that it was chilling. I'm compelled to visit the site of the powder works on my next trip to Georgia.

Getting back to Cabelas, a number of years ago I purchased the Spiller and Burr (.36 caliber) because of it had an enclosed brass frame and very interesting cylinder retention mechanism. It sparked my interest in Confederate firearms in general, and I was surprised that Cabelas sold some pretty accurate reproductions, such as the Griswold and Gunnison, and Dance and Brothers .44. (The latter of these is on my "birthday present" list, but I think I'm already past my 175th birthday.)
 
Getting back to the original question: How can they sell them so cheap?

The answer is all wrapped up in three little letters: CNC!

CNC is Computer Numerical Control. These revolvers are all produced on machine tools that basically run themselves, making their cuts and gauging them for accuracy, monitoring tool wear, changing tools when necessary, and the machines never have a bad day, never get sick or come in late, never get hung over - they just keep cranking out parts as near to perfect as they can be, without human supervision.

In a modern CNC farm, human operators load parts into a fixture called a tombstone. Each tombstone holds many, many part-blanks. The tombstones, furthermore, are loaded into a kind of conveyor system that moves each tombstone to a machine where all of its parts are machined, then extracts the tombstone of finished parts which it conveys to the next machine.

Picture this: Each day after lunch, the operators load parts in the tombstones, then start the machines, watch for a while to make sure everything is going OK, then turn off the lights and go home. When they return in the morning all of the parts are finish-machined, and the operators unload the tombstones of parts that then go to final polishing and assembly. They then reload each machine with any news tools that are required to replace those that are worn out. Then do it all over again.

I did the close-to-machine software for a machining cell about 15 or so years ago. It machined wheels for tracked vehicles. Each machine had a tool magazine that held the various tools that the machine used, and the machine would automatically gauge each tool after each operation to verify if it was still usable. If a tool was deemed by the machine as being too worn, the tool would be rejected and a new tool would be loaded.

Each tool had embedded in it an RF Tag, which was like a license plate for that tool. Rejected tools would go back to the tool room and be sharpened. That tool would be gauged and its RF Tag would be read, and the new measurements would be loaded into the master software for the cell. When the tool eventually made its way back to a machine, and was eventually loaded into the tool head, the machine would read the RF Tag, inquire of the master computer what the offsets for that tool would be, and the machine would then adjust its part program to account for the new dimensions for that tool.

What this allows is complex parts that can be made fairly cheaply. When these pistols were originally produced "back in the day" skilled labor was cheap and technology was expensive. Today, with CNC machines, skilled labor is expensive but technology is cheap.
 
jaxenro said:
The CSA's most common revolver was not brass framed it was either a pre war, smuggled in, or battlefield pick up 1851 navy or 1860 army. The CSA'best commissary was the union army. They even nicknamed general Banks commissariat Banks because of the amount of material Jackson took off him.

Probably less than 10% of CSA revolvers were brass framed

Is this for reenactor use or other
Click to expand...

If you would, could you point me to some reading material on this?

I know personally owned firearms were much preferred...and that soldiers gladly take up whatever they can find in the field during/after battles for a variety of reasons. But I'm coming across some contrary info with respect to your comment and I'd greatly appreciate some historical stuff to read through.

Accuracy would be important to me when buying such a gift for my wife, a woman of Southern persuasion.

:)
 
I bought 2 1858's from Cabelas for $180. ea. On top of that I was given a $20 rebate/discount and a free starter kit valued at about $60. Everywhere else I checked these guns are $300. and up.

If I were a Customs agent with a little time on my hands I think I'd be going fishing.
 
tpelle said:
Getting back to the original question: How can they sell them so cheap?

The answer is all wrapped up in three little letters: CNC!

CNC is Computer Numerical Control. These revolvers are all produced on machine tools that basically run themselves, making their cuts and gauging them for accuracy, monitoring tool wear, changing tools when necessary, and the machines never have a bad day, never get sick or come in late, never get hung over - they just keep cranking out parts as near to perfect as they can be, without human supervision.

In a modern CNC farm, human operators load parts into a fixture called a tombstone. Each tombstone holds many, many part-blanks. The tombstones, furthermore, are loaded into a kind of conveyor system that moves each tombstone to a machine where all of its parts are machined, then extracts the tombstone of finished parts which it conveys to the next machine.

Picture this: Each day after lunch, the operators load parts in the tombstones, then start the machines, watch for a while to make sure everything is going OK, then turn off the lights and go home. When they return in the morning all of the parts are finish-machined, and the operators unload the tombstones of parts that then go to final polishing and assembly. They then reload each machine with any news tools that are required to replace those that are worn out. Then do it all over again.

I did the close-to-machine software for a machining cell about 15 or so years ago. It machined wheels for tracked vehicles. Each machine had a tool magazine that held the various tools that the machine used, and the machine would automatically gauge each tool after each operation to verify if it was still usable. If a tool was deemed by the machine as being too worn, the tool would be rejected and a new tool would be loaded.

Each tool had embedded in it an RF Tag, which was like a license plate for that tool. Rejected tools would go back to the tool room and be sharpened. That tool would be gauged and its RF Tag would be read, and the new measurements would be loaded into the master software for the cell. When the tool eventually made its way back to a machine, and was eventually loaded into the tool head, the machine would read the RF Tag, inquire of the master computer what the offsets for that tool would be, and the machine would then adjust its part program to account for the new dimensions for that tool.

What this allows is complex parts that can be made fairly cheaply. When these pistols were originally produced "back in the day" skilled labor was cheap and technology was expensive. Today, with CNC machines, skilled labor is expensive but technology is cheap.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on the CNC concept.

On a recent Ruger plant tour in Prescott, AZ, was amazed at the automated machine tooling. Was told of just one pistol model, of the many they mfg. there, one goes into a shipping box every 30 seconds.

Should add that Ruger does not do public tours. But as Wife's youngest brother is the chief manufacturing engineer, he treated us to one.
 
I think we all agree on the CNC concept. It's just how Cabelas can sell them for so much cheaper than anyone else.
 
351 WINCHESTER said:
I think we all agree on the CNC concept. It's just how Cabelas can sell them for so much cheaper than anyone else.
Click to expand...
Probably purchasing power due to their economy of scale, and units sold. They can buy in larger quantities than most other retailers.
 
I would be curious where you read brass framed revolvers were common in the CSA? Going from memory Spiller & Burr produced maybe 1,500 revolvers and Griswold & Gunnison about 3,500. Add in all the others and you probably have les than 6,000 brass framed revolvers produced in the South during the war. Leech & Rigdon, Rigdon & Ainsley, the Dance Brothers, etc were all iron framed

Compare this to the 125,000 1860 Army's and 100,000 Remmies the Union army purchased. Adding in all the pre war guns, foreign purchases like the LeMat, the pinfire revolvers, Trantner, Adams, etc. I would easily guess there were 350,000 to 500,000 revolvers floating around of which 1% had brass frames. There simply weren't enough to be common

Just before the war started Colt delivered 500 fluted cylinder 1860's to Texas plus many Southern states made pre war revolver purchases. Mosby's men were known to favor 1860 Army's and Bloody Bill Anderson is reputed to have carried 5 or 6 1862 pockets

The South produced some fascinating arms under incredible conditions but their best supplier was the Union army. They were known for stripping prisoners and even the dead for boots, clothes, food, arms, leather gear, and everything else. The fact that they won so many of the early battles in the East gave them the captured cannons, guns, wagons, and often other supplies to carry on. Look at Jackson before 2nd Manassas plundering Pope's supplies or stealing all of Banks wagons in he valley.

(None of this is meant to criticize by the way. In my opinion they waged war against an invading army the best way they could)
 
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