Laws exist to govern those too irresponsible to govern themselves, and I'm not. The law is not supreme. My rights are.
If there's anything truly wrong with what I'm doing, then it's the law that's wrong, and not me, because I'm operating within it.
Well it's like my Dad says: "Gun laws usually make sense to anyone who's never been a victim of violent crime."
He was robbed at gunpoint five years ago, by three convicted felons.
Have you ever been robbed at gunpoint?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonap
So let's all ignore ALL the laws in our states, look for every loophole, and give ccw to 10 year olds because they want to "defend 'their' own life".
The difference between me and a 10-year-old is that I've been on my own and supported myself for the past four years.
I've demonstrated responsibility to carry a gun in defense of myself, the same way an 18-year-old in the military has demonstrated his or her competency to carry a gun in defense of YOUR FREEDOM.
If you really think the law is always right, then you're saying that I'm old enough to defend your right to criticize me, with an assault rifle, but not old enough to defend MYSELF, with a handgun.
Are you offended that I'm taking responsibility for my own safety instead of depending on the police for it? If that's the case, then become a cop and volunteer to be my bodyguard 24/7 and I'll consider not carrying anymore.
I've worked for the NC State Gov. on two separate occasions, and trust me, they don't "hurry" to do anything. Besides...it's the principle of the thing.
"Quote:
Originally Posted by biggiesmalls
the citizens of the states that issued you a permit should be very offended because you used their laws to bypass a law in your own state. "
Bullsh*t.
I paid both states good money to process those applications, and have made it a goal to visit them before my permits expire. They broke even on their processing fees, and gained tourism they wouldn't have otherwise had. What on earth do they have to be offended about?
You are absolutely right, the LAW WORSHIP here is the real problem.
Isn't that exactly what you're doing by moving out of Illinois?Talonap said:I never said the law was, "right", or "supreme". Just that looking for ways to get around them because you think they should not apply to you, is not the way to go.
Then you should write your words in a way that can't be twisted, the same way Georgia and Arizona wrote their CCW laws in ways that couldn't be twisted by 18-20 year olds using non-resident permits to legally carry concealed.Talonap said:It's amazing how people can twist other's words to try to defend their own position.
Yes, I have taken a CCW course and qualified on a firing line.Talonap said:How have you done this? By taking the CCW course? Have you been in the military? Don't dare start telling me you are anything NEAR the same if you have not. I was in the Navy for 14 years defending YOUR FREEDOM to be able to argue and, yes, to be able to sneak around the law.
And to me, you sound like someone living in a state that doesn't have birthday parties that's jealous of someone living in a state does, because I got my present early and you don't get presents at all...Talonap said:To me you seem like a person who just can’t wait for their birthday to get their “present”. And when you find a way to do it, you have to say, “Nyah, Nyah, I got it anyway, so there!” (Stamping foot) I know I’m not going to convince you, or apparently many others here, that you were wrong, so I won’t try.
The "principle" of the law is that you should prove that you've been checked, cleared and trained by getting a permit before you carry a gun.Talonap said:What happened to, "It's the principle of the thing?"
I never said I was a good person for doing this, so please don't invent claims that were never made to justify your position.Talonap said:Keep up the good part of what you are doing to change the law, but stop boasting that you are such a good person for finding a way around it.
Wonderful attitude. If this dosn't sound like someone who thinks they are "special" and "above the law", I don't know what does.
One who breaks an unjust law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
No, the real problem here is lack of respect for the law, not, "Law Worship". You keep twisting things around in your mind. No one said anything about worshiping the law. No one said the law is perfect. It seems you have a need to twit people's words to justify yourself. Keep up the good part of what you are doing to change the law, but stop boasting that you are such a good person for finding a way around it. The applause you found on this board seems like a knee-jerk reaction to someone, "Beating the system". Of course each has a right to their opinion, but my opinion is that this could encourage someone to look for ways to get around other, "Unjust", laws also. Until it lands them in prison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonap
I never said the law was, "right", or "supreme". Just that looking for ways to get around them because you think they should not apply to you, is not the way to go.
Isn't that exactly what you're doing by moving out of Illinois?
Apparently you don't want their laws should apply to you, so you're moving somewhere that they don't anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonap
It's amazing how people can twist other's words to try to defend their own position.
Then you should write your words in a way that can't be twisted, the same way Georgia and Arizona wrote their CCW laws in ways that couldn't be twisted by 18-20 year olds using non-resident permits to legally carry concealed.
If NC really had the intention of preventing people from carrying under the system I'm using, they would have written their laws that way the same way other states did.
The Deputy Attorney General who signed the reciprocity agreement with New Hampshire doesn't think I'm doing anything wrong, and neither does the Sheriff's Deputy in my county who issues NC permits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonap
How have you done this? By taking the CCW course? Have you been in the military? Don't dare start telling me you are anything NEAR the same if you have not. I was in the Navy for 14 years defending YOUR FREEDOM to be able to argue and, yes, to be able to sneak around the law.
Yes, I have taken a CCW course and qualified on a firing line.
No, I haven't been in the military, but I file my taxes every year to help pay the salaries of the men and women in the Navy that defend your right to sneak out of a state because you don't like the laws--while arguing to me that I should be patient and wait for the laws in my own state to change.
If you really believe I should do that, then why don't you stick around in Illinois and wait for them to pass CCW laws?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonap
To me you seem like a person who just can’t wait for their birthday to get their “present”. And when you find a way to do it, you have to say, “Nyah, Nyah, I got it anyway, so there!” (Stamping foot) I know I’m not going to convince you, or apparently many others here, that you were wrong, so I won’t try.
And to me, you sound like someone living in a state that doesn't have birthday parties that's jealous of someone living in a state does, because I got my present early and you don't get presents at all...
...and then when I do, you have to stamp YOUR foot and say "Wahhhh, that's not fair!"
I know I'm not going to convince someone who doesn't get birthday presents AT ALL that I was justified in getting mine early, so I won't try
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonap
What happened to, "It's the principle of the thing?"
The "principle" of the law is that you should prove that you've been checked, cleared and trained by getting a permit before you carry a gun.
I have two of them.
If anything, I've upheld the principle twice as well as I would have just getting one NC permit.
Quote:
"Quote:Originally Posted by biggiesmalls the citizens of the states that issued you a permit should be very offended because you used their laws to bypass a law in your own state.
"Bullsh*t. I paid both states good money to process those applications, and have made it a goal to visit them before my permits expire. They broke even on their processing fees, and gained tourism they wouldn't have otherwise had. What on earth do they have to be offended about?
What happened to, "It's the principle of the thing?" You can say it's ok because you gave them money? Perhaps the suggestion that other people may value their "principles" also is alien to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonap
Keep up the good part of what you are doing to change the law, but stop boasting that you are such a good person for finding a way around it.
I never said I was a good person for doing this, so please don't invent claims that were never made to justify your position.
Look, I'm not trying to brag about anything. The only reason I posted this thread was to help others who are treated unfairly by the system to FOLLOW THE LAW and still exercise their rights.
I apologize if I sound like an egotistical little b**ch. I really don't mean to. You raise some valid points, and I appreciate your criticism and concern, honest. I truly sympathize that you live in gun-hating Illinois, and would love to see you move somewhere like NC. We need people like you here!
All bickering aside, we're on the same team, and I respect what you have to say.
Also, thank you for your military service...sincerely. I wouldn't be able to exercise my first or second amendment rights if it weren't for the men like you who have served to defend freedom.
Quote:
Wonderful attitude. If this dosn't sound like someone who thinks they are "special" and "above the law", I don't know what does.
There's a nice quote here for that.
Quote:
One who breaks an unjust law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
In my view, any law that seeks to unjustifiably restrict one's constitutional rights is an inherently unjust law, and is itself a disgrace to the very concept of law and order. I would hope that all of us would consider ourselves above an immoral and unjust piece of legislation.
Quote:
No, the real problem here is lack of respect for the law, not, "Law Worship". You keep twisting things around in your mind. No one said anything about worshiping the law. No one said the law is perfect. It seems you have a need to twit people's words to justify yourself. Keep up the good part of what you are doing to change the law, but stop boasting that you are such a good person for finding a way around it. The applause you found on this board seems like a knee-jerk reaction to someone, "Beating the system". Of course each has a right to their opinion, but my opinion is that this could encourage someone to look for ways to get around other, "Unjust", laws also. Until it lands them in prison.
Would you tell the same thing to a political dissident in another country, attempting to use the internet to get around a ban on communication?
Or if a black man in the pre-1965 South "cheated" his way around a literacy test at the polls?
The doctor says I'm Adult ADD, but I can research the hell of anything that interests me.
By Flyboy:
Talonap, you still haven't answered my questions. The intent of the "Assault Weapons" ban was clear; do you think that the manufacturers and purchasers were wrong to exploit the "loophole" of complying with the letter of the law, even though it circumvented the intent?
By Flyboy:
I'm not referring to the grandfather clause, I'm referring to the continued production of military-style semiautomatic rifles by removing flash suppressors, telescoping stocks, and the like, when the stated purpose of the legislation was to end the production of such rifles completely. How many times did we hear the antis bleating that we were "using a loophole" to manufacture them?
So, which side are you on? Is strict compliance with the letter of the law "getting around" it "using loopholes?"
I would counter, then, to say that North Carolina's law doesn't forbid carriage of arms by those under twenty-one, merely that it forbids issuance of a permit to those under twenty-one.
And you and I both know that the intent of the AWB was to get rid of the entire style, it was just clumsily written--hence the changes in the renewing legislation. The antis learned from their mistake, and set out to correct it.
At the end of the day, you're either breaking the law, or you're not. It is vital that the laws be taken as written; if we start trying to enforce laws "as intended," rather than as written, we open the door to differences of opinion on intent, and that takes objectivity out of the legal process.
If a law is found to be flawed in such a way as to create a legal means of circumvention, we should work to change the law, not harangue those who comply with the law.