How long to let your gun set before rechecking zero?

[Bazoo]

This thread https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/always-be-sure-to-test-your-gun.913254/#post-12541156

spawned this question.

Just how long do you let a gun set before you check the zero?

If you fly to Alaska for the hunt of a lifetime, you should check your zero when you get there. Everyone will likely agree on this.

But what about a rifle used for hunting the back forty or down the road. If you sight it in and leave it in the safe, shooting others all year, wouldn’t it still be just fine come season? I expect many will say not. So what about 3 months, or just a month before season. The day before?

What if you sight in a week before season, and season is a month long. Is the gun still good all month? Or do you check your zero several times through the hunting seasons?

I don’t mean after dropping the gun, everyone should know to recheck at that point. But just carrying afield with not bumps or abuse.

 

[wombat13]

I don’t get to shoot as much as I would like. I “sight in” my rifles before hunting season as much to check myself as the rifles. Also, it helps remind me exactly where I’m zeroed with each rifle. Don’t really need to do it. I typically have them 1” to 1.5” high at 100 yards which means my .300wm and .25-06 are good as far as I have ever taken a shot at an animal.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Well as the question was asked how long if it sets there is no limit as it's not going to change just sitting. Last deer I shot was with a gun I hadn't fired in 4 years or so and was a perfect heart punch at around 200 yards. Was not afraid of it because I knew it had just been sitting in the safe.

Now if flying to Alaska as you mention I would take a verifying shot since I don't know how it was handled when it was out of my hands on the flight.

 

[Chuck R.]

Usually, before the season, or before travelling to hunt and/or when anything changes. I'm normally practicing with the hunting rifles a few times a year anyway. My circumstances are different from some guys, because my range is just out back.

I verify zero's often, just did it today for 3 rifles while doing a pressure test for a new powder, because I might be heading to OK in a couple weeks for pigs. For me It's not a big deal:

Pack my chit in the UTV, make the 125 yard commute to the bench, shoot steel at 200 & 300yds. IF things aren't explainable due to the conditions, put the rifle on paper at 100.

For travelling, or when stuff gets bumped I use a Leupold Zero Point boresighter with grids. I print out sheets for each rifle and load, record the zero'd, and take pictures with my phone. IF something gets whacked it takes a couple minutes to slap the boresighter on and verify all is well. Sample grid with recorded zero:





I've also used the above method when swapping scopes etc. It works very well for that purpose. I can do it with my laser boresighter also (record a zero), but the magnetic Zero Point is just easier.

 

[Captains1911]

Well as the question was asked how long if it sets there is no limit as it's not going to change just sitting. Last deer I shot was with a gun I hadn't fired in 4 years or so and was a perfect heart punch at around 200 yards. Was not afraid of it because I knew it had just been sitting in the safe.

Now if flying to Alaska as you mention I would take a verifying shot since I don't know how it was handled when it was out of my hands on the flight.

I don’t agree that zeroes can’t change just from sitting. Environmental factors like temp, humidity, etc. can cause zero shifts. Whether it’s enough to matter or not depends.

 

[jmr40]

I shoot year-round. All of my go-to rifles are in synthetic stocks. I haven't had to change zero in years unless I change loads. But I shoot often enough that I'd catch any problem.

Wood stocked rifles will have zero shift quite a bit as temperature, humidity and altitude change. A wood stocked rifle zeroed here in August when it is 100 degrees, 80% humidity and at 1000' above sea level may be off quite a bit in November in Colorado at 10 degrees, 20% humidity and 10,000' above sea level.

 

[Ru4real]

So many golfball sized rocks trapped in a softball sized rock body. I set them free.

 

[JeffG]

I verify zero for every rifle/load for every hunt, or season. I'll start shooting it in August for an October hunt. After that hunting season, It gets checked before it goes hunting again.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I don’t agree that zeroes can’t change just from sitting. Environmental factors like temp, humidity, etc. can cause zero shifts. Whether it’s enough to matter or not depends.

What environmental factors sitting in my climate controlled safe room and how is it going to effect a stainless steel synthetic stocked rifle that is full floated and pillar bedded?

Now can POA change ever so slightly on a gun like that once it's out in the elements? Yes but is it enough to matter? In my case I have found that no it isn't because if a rifle is that unpredictable it's not going to be in my hands during a hunt. Any change in mine is such a minute amount how do you know it's not going to be right back on the morning of the hunt? Once I trust a rifle and load to make an acceptable cold bore shot I don't waste component's chasing a zero back and forth by fractions of an inch.

So my personal experience is what I base my opinion on. Would I trust that to any old rifle? No I'm basing it on the rifles that I would pull out of the safe to go hunting with. Those rifles that have earned my trust and ones that I have a particular stash of components for ammo that I intend to last as long as I am able to hunt with them. The rifle I deer hunted with this past fall has not had a turret turned on it in probably close 20 years. With it's pet load it's just always on and never gave me a reason not to trust it to be on next time I take it hunting.

Others mileage may vary and with factory ammo obviously you can't trust to be the same. A wood stocked gun, particularly one that isn't bedded or floated but as I said I wouldn't be hunting with one because there are too many better options today for hunting in inclement conditions.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I shoot year-round. All of my go-to rifles are in synthetic stocks. I haven't had to change zero in years unless I change loads. But I shoot often enough that I'd catch any problem.

Wood stocked rifles will have zero shift quite a bit as temperature, humidity and altitude change. A wood stocked rifle zeroed here in August when it is 100 degrees, 80% humidity and at 1000' above sea level may be off quite a bit in November in Colorado at 10 degrees, 20% humidity and 10,000' above sea level.

Exactly my experience, if I zero a gun and in different conditions the same load shoots such a different point of aim enough to not make ethical shots hunting then I won't be using that gun and or ammo combination because it can never be trusted. Temps can change 30 degrees or more just in a day hunting and we have humidity from very little to nearly100 percent in just one day to the next depending on weather.

 

[LoonWulf]

I hunt and shoot all year, I only actually "check zero" when I have an unexplained miss.
The guns are normally at the range at at least every 2-6 months, and pretty much every miss ive had in the last few years has either been user error, or ....well....user error....

 

[H&Hhunter]

I’ve seen amazing things happen to a gun that’s just sitting. Action screws come loose, base or rings come loose, I’ve found cracked screws, or stocks and I’ve definitely had a scope decide to cachingo itself internally while sitting over the winter.

Most of my rifles are perfectly fine after sitting in the safe for a long time but I check them anyway. Every once in a while you’ll find that gremlins have been at work.

Much like Loon if I’m using a rifle and shooting it regularly that takes the mystery away and I’ll go a long time between checking zero. And also like Loon 99% of my misses are user error.

And the thread in which the OP cites is EXACTLY why you want to check your rifle if it’s been sitting. He had a loose sight on a rifle that had sat, the gremlins had been at work,

 

[mcb]

As hunting season approaches I try real hard to take my chosen hunting rifle and my backup rifle out to the property and check the zeroes in the late summer early fall. I usually also try to get out and varmint hunt with my deer rifle in the final weeks before deer season.

 

[FL-NC]

Reasons to check zero: 1- Start of season 2- rifle got dropped 3- change of ammunition type 4- transported in some manner where it was not under my control for the duration of travel (flying, for example).

 

[buck460XVR]

But what about a rifle used for hunting the back forty or down the road. If you sight it in and leave it in the safe, shooting others all year, wouldn’t it still be just fine come season?

...in those scenarios, for the most part, it ain't the gun that goes out of whack, but the shooter. Unless dropped, sights do not move. Unless there is a huge difference in humidity, the stock and the fit of the stock to the barrel do not change. Barrels harmonics with the same ammunition doesn't change. But the shooters focus and trigger control change as does the body characteristics(especially around the holidays). Could be a change in glasses. Change in ammo? yep, better check it. The reason one would check flying to Alaska is the high probability of the gun getting a good jar along the way. Same goes for anything the requires the gun to be handled by others in transit. Fell thru the ice a few years back and jarred my little 77/44 pretty good. She was a tack driver before and still is, but the POI changed 3 inches @ 100 yards. Could have been a game changer if I had not checked. The reason to shoot your guns regularly isn't really about the gun........this is much more apparent with handguns than it is with rifles.

 

[Chuck R.]

I don’t agree that zeroes can’t change just from sitting. Environmental factors like temp, humidity, etc. can cause zero shifts. Whether it’s enough to matter or not depends.

Technically, IMHO that's not a zero shift, that's just environmental changes on exterior ballistics. In theory IF you shot again under the same conditions, your zero would be right back where it was. On days when the wind's up and I have to zero something, I'll compensate for the effect at the zero distance.

The latter "red" I agree with 100%.

As I posted earlier, having a home range allows me to test my loads during variable conditions. I have steel off my back deck at 407 and 547yds, so when I'm bored or conditions are screwy, I'll take a couple shots just to see the effect.

Barring any drastic wind, the normal stuff; temp, pressure, humidity aren't a real concern for shots on big game at least out to 400 yds, 547 I start to see stuff that when combined with wind make shots more challenging. This is assisted by using the most temp stable powder you can in your loads. Now wind is a completely different animal, at 400 a missed wind call will move me off an 8" plate.

Anybody can get the same idea by playing with a ballistic program and monkeying with your weather data. You can also see the effects of a bad ES or non temp stable powder by just changing your MV and checking out the deltas.

My normal procedure is to update my dope charts on my stocks at least twice, summer and winter. When changing altitudes I'll just factor a correction to compensate. Even then though, out to 300-400 given an 8" kill zone it's not a big issue. For the longer stuff, I have Strelok pro on my phone and a Kestrel in my Bino harness.

 

[jmorris]

I try and not beat up my equipment and do have a number of rifles that have not needed adjustment for years, others that get driven around for conditions/range every time they are out.

On rifles where I swap between day/night optics, I leave a laser on them that is my zero at a known range. It’s the quickest way I know of to confirm without a shot but I guess if you messed up the firearm that too would be useless. It just confirms that all of the aiming devices intend the bullet to go to the same spot.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Now, I hunt more than most people (feral hogs) so I have opportunities virtually every day of the year, of which I use about half. I don't rezero or check zero unless there has been a drop, change ammo, massive temperature change, or if I feel the gun may be off (but usually, it is just me). I have actually lost zero 2 times over the years, truly lost it and not just a slight move due to temp change, due to mounts coming loose. In other words, the process is ongoing.

What about the rifle I zeroed last year? Will it still hold zero? I have no reason to believe it would not, so long as I am using the same ammo and the environmentals are similar enough to the last time I shot. Often is the case that I don't have the same ammo anymore and I will have to verify zero with whatever ammo I am currently using, but if I have the same ammo, I will hunt with it, no problem. The only time I find 'gremlins' to be an issue is when something has changed outside of the gun/scope such as the ammo (don't have same ammo), lot number, or environmentals.

If I am using the same ammo and it is not spot on anymore (different lot number of same ammo, different environmentals, etc.), then if I have to make an adjustment, it is usually less than 1 MOA. For most hunting purposes, I would not recognize being off by 1 MOA or less, in part because often is the case that the animals I shoot are not absolutely stationary. With a 100 or 150 yard shot, there is plenty of time for the hog to move slightly, enough to throw off the shot, slightly, but not enough to ruin the shot.

If I ever loan a gun out for hunting, I check zero before I hunt with it. I didn't think I needed to tell people this, but apparently I underestimated the human condition of Tomfoolery, but when using electronic sights (thermal or digital NV), there are a lot of options to play with and invariably, somebody will find the zero menu and adjust the zero, just to see what the knobs and buttons do. I mentioned to one guy that the gun was zeroed at 100 yards. He likes a 200 yard zero and thought he would tweek things to his liking by moving the crosshair around. He never hit a thing after fixing my zero to being more than 9" off at 100 yards.

When guys fly in to hunt, we will have them recheck zero before hunting. Usually, no problem. Every now and then, things are screwed up, but it seems fairly rare. Still, I would definitely want to recheck zero after baggage handlers had my rifle for the day.

After being a member at a large range and seeing the duffs show up to zero or check zero for deer season, I have a hard time believing (for many) their problems are zero-related, or that it is, but that they can't hit their own zero to shoot a decent group.

---------------------------

Instances of rifles losing zero is interesting to me. I often wonder how people function in the word based on how I see them zero or comprehend the process. On Texas Hunting Forum in the optics section right now, there is a discussion on thermal scopes losing zero. Over the years, there have been some product releases that were not ready for prime time, no doubt. Usually, this was a firmware and mapping (of the reticle on the image) issue, more so than a physical scope issue, though Pulsar did have a problem with their Trail series where the scopes would drift zero when they got hot. The problem was, that it was not a universal issue. They didn't all have the issue.

However, the guy making the post scares the hell out of me. His claims were that in the dozen or so scopes that he had used, he could shoot a cloverleaf at 100 yards with 3 shots, then shot #4 would be 10" off...and knowing that he had this problem, he would still hog hunt, literally having no clue as to where his bullets were going. He just assumed that since people didn't post a lot of pics of precision shooting with thermals that thermals could not be expected to be precise and that a wandering zero was normal.

Another guy had a list of scopes that he knew to have wandering zeroes (no more than 1-1.5 moa), but these were all associated with temperature LARGE changes, which it much more likely to be the powder temperature issue than the scope actually wandering. Is it really a scope problem if your ammo doesn't shoot to the same point when temps are 60 degrees different than when you zeroed? LOL.

Cart/Horse/Cart?
------------------

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I do an annual pre-season zero check with whichever rifle I've decided to carry that year. Usually well enough before the season starts to correct any problem that may arise. Having the 100 yard range just out back is a big help there.

 

[bearcreek]

Is it really a scope problem if your ammo doesn't shoot to the same point when temps are 60 degrees different than when you zeroed? LOL.

Cart/Horse/Cart?
------------------

50°-60°F swings in a 24 hr period are not at all unusual during certain times of the year here, particularly during fall hunting seasons. I wouldn't use a rifle for hunting if the zero changed very much with those kind of temp swings.

 

[md7]

Personally I like to shoot my rifle prior to season just to make sure. Cheap insurance, and plenty of time to make corrections if needed.

 

[243winxb]

Depends on the gun.

Marlin 39 22lr, worst i ever owned. Its was a forearm issue. Changed with the weather.

Remington 40X in 243. Never changes when using the same lot of primer, bullet, powder, brass. Keep a log with load data & lot numbers.

 

[Captains1911]

Technically, IMHO that's not a zero shift, that's just environmental changes on exterior ballistics. In theory IF you shot again under the same conditions, your zero would be right back where it was. On days when the wind's up and I have to zero something, I'll compensate for the effect at the zero distance.

The latter "red" I agree with 100%.

As I posted earlier, having a home range allows me to test my loads during variable conditions. I have steel off my back deck at 407 and 547yds, so when I'm bored or conditions are screwy, I'll take a couple shots just to see the effect.

Barring any drastic wind, the normal stuff; temp, pressure, humidity aren't a real concern for shots on big game at least out to 400 yds, 547 I start to see stuff that when combined with wind make shots more challenging. This is assisted by using the most temp stable powder you can in your loads. Now wind is a completely different animal, at 400 a missed wind call will move me off an 8" plate.

Anybody can get the same idea by playing with a ballistic program and monkeying with your weather data. You can also see the effects of a bad ES or non temp stable powder by just changing your MV and checking out the deltas.

My normal procedure is to update my dope charts on my stocks at least twice, summer and winter. When changing altitudes I'll just factor a correction to compensate. Even then though, out to 300-400 given an 8" kill zone it's not a big issue. For the longer stuff, I have Strelok pro on my phone and a Kestrel in my Bino harness.

That’s not what I meant. I believe that over time, changes in temperature, atmospheric pressure, etc. can cause an optic’s zero to change somewhat, regardless of the conditions when the gun was zeroed. Cheaper optics probably more so.

 

[Chuck R.]

That’s not what I meant. I believe that over time, changes in temperature, atmospheric pressure, etc. can cause an optic’s zero to change somewhat, regardless of the conditions when the gun was zeroed. Cheaper optics probably more so.

This I've not experienced, but the cheapest optics I have are Leupold VX3s, and those are on shorter range rifles/carbines.

I'd guesstimate more likely poor bedding or stock fitment.

I have just 1 wood stocked hunting rifle left, my other 5 are all synthetic and either bedded or in aluminum bedding blocks. the wood stocked rifle is a Steyr Model S and it's probably moving on in a year or two also.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

That’s not what I meant. I believe that over time, changes in temperature, atmospheric pressure, etc. can cause an optic’s zero to change somewhat, regardless of the conditions when the gun was zeroed. Cheaper optics probably more so.

So I guess if a person has cheap stuff they would need to check more often but I'd venture to say most of todays more basic scopes are made to the quality of a 1970s Leupold.

So that said, for fun and nostalgia this past fall I drug out some old guns that had not been fired in decades. One was my first centerfire rifle, an old M77 25-06 heavy barrel with it's Leupold M8 10x that I had not shot since the mid 1980s or so. Loaded up some rounds with some old stock Speer 100 gr spitzers and some old metal can 4350 from the day and guess what. That gun centered it's groups around an 1 1/2 high at 100 yards just like I always had it zeroed when I packed it for probably miles over my shoulder as a teenager. It has it's original wood stock but it has been pillar bedded and floated but after all that time and me living in three different houses that gun was still minute of groundhog with the same bullets and powder as it was nearly 40 years ago. So my experience once again does not support your claim of the mechanism within a scope just magically shifting the crosshairs.