How many HazMat CDLs here?

[Dave in PA]

For the folks that cringe at new acronyms, A CDL is a Commercial Driving License and HazMat is Hazardous Materials. In order for you to drive a commercial vehicle you must have a CDL and in order to carry HazMat, you must have a HazMat endorsement. Makes sense right? Stay with me......

In order to obtain a CDL you must pass knowledge questions (lots of them), demonstrate you are capable of performing a proper pre trip inspection of the vehicle and then demonstrate the ability to safely operate said vehicle on the highway.

In order to obtain a HazMat endorsement (at least in PA) You have to fill out two forms, write two checks to Penn Dot, you then have to pass the knowledge test. After you have passed the knowledge test, you have to take one of the forms to the Pennsylvania State Police to be fingerprinted. They note identifying marks, scars, tattoos, etc. Then they begin a background check. I believe the State Police do part of it, then they run you past the FBI, then who knows whom else at the Department of Homeland Security. If you pass this vetting, you get a letter from the Homeland Security stating "You are deemed not a threat". They also send a copy of the file to the DMV who issues you a new camera card with the HazMat endorsement. You are now trusted by the government to carry truckloads explosives, corrosives, toxic stuff and so on nearly anywhere in the country.

How is this firearms related you ask? Hang on.....It's coming......

This process is ostensibly to keep terrorists from obtaining Hazardous Materials, explosives, radioactive stuff, flammables, toxins, etc etc. (unless they just steal it, Duh) HOWEVER, say I was picking up a load of hexylmethalbadstuff and bringing it through different states such as New Jersey and New York. There are no provisions for the driver of the vehicle carrying HAZMAT to defend himself or the load of HM from a hijacker. You might be asking yourself, how would a hijacker know what you're carrying. Simple, Federal Law REQUIRES placards on all four sides of the vehicle, advertising what you are carrying. Imagine having a 10"x10" square on point (diamond) sign on your front and back that says CONCEALED WEAPON ON BOARD when you are carrying concealed.

What do you think the chances are of using this line of thought to obtain nationwide carry permits? Ignore for the moment company policies and such. And beurocratic nightmares of establishing a nationwide permit process and the constitutionality of it.

How about saying that since the best of our HOMELAND SECURITY resources says you are a good guy, you get to carry a loaded firearm of your choice anywhere you want in the USA?

 

[elrod]

I have a CDL w/ HAZMAT. The way things are, you'd think it would be a no-brainer to carry. In fact, it should be required! In reality, if airline pilots are forbidden or very highly restricted, they sure as hell aren't allowing truckers to carry, HAZ-MAT or not.

Simply put, your national permit idea is much too logical.

 

[strat81]

You make a very valid point, and it's a good reason for a nationwide permit and/or national reciprocity. It's amazing how vulnerable we really are.

To expand on your thought, what kind of security exists for outgoing shipments at S&W, Ruger, Rock River, Colt, Bushmaster, etc? I'd imagine a UPS truck leaving such a firm would contain quite a few guns.

If I may digress for a moment, I remember the days and weeks following 9/11 in the area around NYC. I lived in NYC at the time and occasionally had to travel into Manhattan. Much of the vehicular traffic was prohibited, but I was seeing a specialist in Manhattan and was unable to drive myself or take public transportation. Anyway, I recall watching NYPD and military (Army? National Guard?) pull over and inspect all kinds of trucks. Bread trucks, box trucks, vans, Uhauls, commercial pickups, 18-wheelers. Lemme tell you, it is SCARY to see some guy with an M16/M4 on patrol while you wait in traffic to pay the toll at the Battery Tunnel.

One kind of truck that went through with a minimum of scrutiny was a cement truck. Considering vehicles were used during the original WTC bombing as well as OKC, the thought of one or more cement trucks taking out bridges and tunnels in the area seemed very real.

 

[230RN]

^^^
Did they at least take a sniff to see what kind of "slurry" was being so thoroughly mixed in the back of that innocent little old cement truck?

(What do you call the back of a cement truck anyhow? The "tank?" Just "the back?" The "mixer?" )

A couple of decades ago a company opened up in this area which explosively formed complex sheet-metal shapes by detonating HE underwater near a sheet of metal backed by a form shaped like the part you wanted. They made missile nose cones and the like using this method of fabrication.

Anyhow, when they opened up the company, in order to allay the fears of the villagers, they had an open house tour and they demonstrated the process. Quite interesting. Thump! Splash! Then they'd haul the mold and the finished part out of the pool.

However, the tour guide, as part of explaining the general usefulness of HE in metal processing, said that a lot of metal-cladding was done by explosives.

They'd stretch out the two long (many many feet) strips of metal to be cladded together in front of a cheap wooden trough, and slowly run a cement truck full of explosive slurry along the trough, delivering it into the trough just like they'd be delivering cement.

Then they'd set the slurry off. Voila! --a long strip of two metals bonded together by the explosion.

So I wonder if they bothered to sniff at the contents of that truck.

-------
ETA I just Googled them and they're still around. I guess they merged with the cladding company. Jeeze, they set off six tons of the boomstuff every day! Talk about HazMat drivers!

This link contains a link to a video of the explosion cladding process:

http://www.dynamicmaterials.com/Divisions/Clad Metal Group/Clad Metal USA

 

[Rustynuts]

Concrete truck can blow up, didn't they see the episode of Mythbusters? They were trying the myth of cleaning hardened concrete with dynamite. Didn't work cleaning, so they packed it full and blew the whole truck up! I think there was a small mushroom cloud involved.

 

[Eric F]

Oh boy another of my favorite topics...CDL and ccw....
I can remember back when ccw first came in Va they tried to arrest a pizza delivery driver for carring a firearm in his car while delivering a pizza. I guess the thinking was your car in a comercial vehical while you are delivering. There was a huge article in the papper and after the smoke cleared the guy got off as a delivery car did not meet the requirements to be a comercial vehical.
I use to drive a Tractor trailer and had the pleasure of having a hazmat endorsment. Its not a big deal to me as I have a huge amount of hazmat training. little known fact in va you do not even have to take the test if you have a dod hazardous materials operations certificate or are a state hazmat instructor train the trainer. Any way I still keep the endorsment but have never had to be fingerprinted? I know others that do maby I have sliped under the radar????
Now ccw for the cdl I would have to say this Every one knows with little execption there is no gun(or atleast not suposed to be) in a tractor trailer. So most haz mats are fair game. Nuclear energy and some nuclear weapons parts are shipped with in the cab security and chaser vehicals. '
I have personaly hauled a load of explosives and thought what would happen if.........there are so many possibilities????? Bottom line it should not be up to the driver to "defend" the load he is hauling the driver does not own the material. There is a reason you cannot smoke by law with in 25 feet of a hazmat load. My beleif is you should not carry a gun. There are alot of hazmats that will not react very well with bullets. There are far more complications as well what about border crossings Canada will certianly not let guns into their country so then what?
There are too many "truck stop heros" to be arming these folks I can see gun fights hapening in the "back rowe" over your cb walsk over mine and other stupid stuff. Has any of you gone to a truck stop and listeded to some of the bs that gets tossed around? It would make it seem that a good percentage of thes folks have mental illness. Now that was the way it was 10 years ago when I drove OTR full time. I really dont think it has changed much since then. I have so much more to say but need to get to work but I will be watching this thread.
If the load in question needs security it should be provided by home land security not the driver.

 

[Chipperman]

It makes too much sense to ever happen.

 

[Onmilo]

I renewed my CDL at the end of last year.
Illinois has a new plan where Haz-Mat drivers have to go through a background investigation that cost me $120.00 over the cost of my license which cost me another $80.00 with the haz-mat and tanker endorsements.

I had to pay for and receive the background clearance before I could renew my license too.

I agree with that let drivers carry everywhere because what I normally haul when I am driving a truck is a farm item in big demand with dope cookers but alas Illinois says it is better to die and let the bad guys get the stuff than to let any old citizen go around packing a gun.

 

[Eric F]

Hey Onmilo your fees for your cdl are tax deductable FYI

 

[Onmilo]

I know, it still doesn't make me any happier and since I drive somebody elses truck now I can't deduct that anyway.

I work three jobs to keep my head above water and everybody works hard at taking me money away.