How many people use Bore Guides when cleaning their guns?

[Rule3]

i'd recommend it. a bore guide allows you to insert the cleaning patch into the bore guide, then squirt cleaning fluid of your choice into the port, and then push it into the bore, as opposed to squirting cleaning fluid on your patch and then having it drip everywhere as you flail around trying to get it through the action into the chamber and then bore. what you want to avoid is having one of those fairly harsh solvents dripping into your trigger group and sit there until the next time you clean it. in addition to potentially having some corrosive action, it will gather dust and soot and anything else floating about and stick to it, potentially gumming up the works.
second, as was mentioned above, you're trying to push a flexible rod from more than a foot away. that means it's going to bend and the throat is going to stop it (or muzzle if you clean from the other end) from flexing. you don't want to consistently apply pressure to that area as you drag it back and forth. if you use a guide, the pressure will be on the rear end of the guide and any flex in the rod will generally be in the middle in the bore
and keep in mind it's not the aluminum that does the damage but the tiny sand-like fragments. that's why it was also recommended above to wipe the rod down after every pass.

Then we can get into the best cleaner to use, use of a patch catcher and how to properly "break in" a new barrel.Of course I will then need a bore scope to see how clean it is.
I doubt after 40 years or so, I am gonna change.

 

[Nanook]

I always use a bore guide, especially on my bench rest rifles. I modified one to fit the unusual configuration of my Kimber 82G using my mini mill and now it works fine.

I have them for all of my rifles.

 

[Shimitup]

I don't use guides however I don't clean bores every outing depending on the round count. I do wipe the rod off with every stroke and I routinely wipe down the rod with steel wool in an attempt to minimize embedded abrasive particles.

 

[Walkalong]

I do wipe the rod off with every stroke and I routinely wipe down the rod with steel wool in an attempt to minimize embedded abrasive particles.

Then why not take that other step to protect your bore? It's not any trouble at all to use one, and they are effective at reducing wear in the throat area.

 

[Rbstuartjr]

They say you learn something new everyday. I have never used a bore guide in the 35 years I have owned firearms. I was taught how to clean firearms by my father, who himself has never used one. He was taught by the Army match rifle team on how to clean Garands and still uses that way today. He still shoots rifle competitions locally and wins matches in his age group. I asked him about bore guides for cleaning and looked at me confused. I’ll look into all this and thank you all for information you all posted.

 

[Aim1]

They say you learn something new everyday. I have never used a bore guide in the 35 years I have owned firearms. I was taught how to clean firearms by my father, who himself has never used one. He was taught by the Army match rifle team on how to clean Garands and still uses that way today. He still shoots rifle competitions locally and wins matches in his age group. I asked him about bore guides for cleaning and looked at me confused. I’ll look into all this and thank you all for information you all posted.

I assume he starts at the muzzle with a Garand?

 

[Rule3]

Then why not take that other step to protect your bore? It's not any trouble at all to use one, and they are effective at reducing wear in the throat area.

Is there some actual real science, testing that verifies this?? Rather than anecdotal evidence opinion?

I am not saying that damage might be done, but if one is careful I fail to see how damage will happen. Other than serious match shooters I think more people clean without a bore guide. I mentioned early how do people clean revolvers?? From the muzzle. I doubt many put the rod in, then screw the brush on and pull it through. Worse yet so many people use bore snakes and run the same fouling through the barrel over and over.

A loaded cartridge(bullet and all gets rammed into the the throat of a barrel and that is not an issue??. Yet, sliding a thinner. softer rod with patch does damage??

Then the folks cleaning run a bronze brush 30 times or more to clean out some traces of copper?? What does more damage.??

 

[Walkalong]

Is there some actual real science, testing that verifies this??

Actual real life experience over decades by a lot of serious shooters and hunters.

 

[hps1]

They say you learn something new everyday. I have never used a bore guide in the 35 years I have owned firearms. I was taught how to clean firearms by my father, who himself has never used one. He was taught by the Army match rifle team on how to clean Garands and still uses that way today. He still shoots rifle competitions locally and wins matches in his age group. I asked him about bore guides for cleaning and looked at me confused. I’ll look into all this and thank you all for information you all posted.

To each his own, but FWIW here's why I use bore guides on all types of rifles, even those cleaned from the muzzle (although not quite as effective IMO as breech guides).

I was cleaning rifles long before serving on an AMU, and yes, we also cleaned our M1's from the muzzle w/o bore guides, but those match grade M1's were issued to us and maintained (re-barreled) by Uncle Sam, IOW, not our nickel . I shot matches with my own equipment for some 16-17 years after separation and in spite of taking every precaution to extend the life of my rifle barrels, wore out a number of them. I managed to squeeze an average of 7500 rounds out of high dollar match 30-06 barrels before it would not hold the X ring, then replaced them at a minimum cost of around $500.00 (before the turn of the century; hate to ask current cost). (Some considered barrel life of a HP match rifle to be around 2500 rounds.)

In addition to protecting the barrel, (breech style) bore guides keep solvents, carbon and other trash out of action/triggers as has been previously stated.

Garand Collector's Assoc. did an experiment on this issue. They found that using the most aggressive methods to ruin the muzzle the experimenters would ruin their rotator cuffs before the muzzle got another point on the MW gauge.

Maybe so, but how do they explain the very visible "blunderbuss" shape of the bore at the muzzles of thousands of "Blue Sky" M1's (imported from Korea) which flooded the market in the '60's & '70's. Every M1 I inspected with the Blue Sky importer's marks were smoothbore or close to it at the muzzle, obviously caused by careless use of jointed steel rods.

How many use an action cleaning set and clean the lug recess area as well as the chamber?
Just curious

Guilty, as charged. Mental confidence in one's equipment adds points at the end of the day.

Regards,
hps

 

[taliv]

Is there some actual real science, testing that verifies this?? Rather than anecdotal evidence opinion?

I am not saying that damage might be done, but if one is careful I fail to see how damage will happen. Other than serious match shooters I think more people clean without a bore guide. I mentioned early how do people clean revolvers?? From the muzzle. I doubt many put the rod in, then screw the brush on and pull it through. Worse yet so many people use bore snakes and run the same fouling through the barrel over and over.

A loaded cartridge(bullet and all gets rammed into the the throat of a barrel and that is not an issue??. Yet, sliding a thinner. softer rod with patch does damage??

Then the folks cleaning run a bronze brush 30 times or more to clean out some traces of copper?? What does more damage.??

i'm not really following your logic. just because some people do even worse things, like bore snakes or cleaning from the muzzle, doesn't really change the pros and cons of using a bore guide.

the effect of firing on the bore has been addressed many times. idk what else to tell you. maybe consider what something like tubb's final finish does. glue sandpaper to a handful of bullets and shoot them and it will change your bore a LOT faster than hundreds of normal rounds. that's what's happening with dirty rods rubbing the most important part.

Then we can get into the best cleaner to use, use of a patch catcher and how to properly "break in" a new barrel.Of course I will then need a bore scope to see how clean it is.
I doubt after 40 years or so, I am gonna change.

again, i'm not following the logic. all those things can be important too. except maybe the patch catcher, unless you're married and clean guns in the kitchen.

old dogs, new tricks, eh?
never stop learning

 

[Shimitup]

Then why not take that other step to protect your bore? It's not any trouble at all to use one, and they are effective at reducing wear in the throat area.

Good point, truth is I shoot my rifles so seldom that some day somebody's going to inherit rifles that have bores that look brand new, that said I may just take your advise, I would feel better about the cleaning process.

 

[Rule3]

i'm not really following your logic. just because some people do even worse things, like bore snakes or cleaning from the muzzle, doesn't really change the pros and cons of using a bore guide.

the effect of firing on the bore has been addressed many times. idk what else to tell you. maybe consider what something like tubb's final finish does. glue sandpaper to a handful of bullets and shoot them and it will change your bore a LOT faster than hundreds of normal rounds. that's what's happening with dirty rods rubbing the most important part.


again, i'm not following the logic. all those things can be important too. except maybe the patch catcher, unless you're married and clean guns in the kitchen.

old dogs, new tricks, eh?
never stop learning

Neither you or Walkalong have provided any documentation. Just anecdotal and hearsay.
Just because you and others use bore guides doe not prove that they are better at barrel perfection.

Logic??, glue sandpaper to bullets and that's what happens with "dirty rods" ?? Seriously? Yep sure. Instead of logic get realistic.

Dirty rods? How hard is it to wipe the rod off?

A bullet and the carbon (yes there is some article that carbon forms hard as diamond particles) contribute to barrel wear.

Yet for some non logical reason the use of a bronze bore brush 30 or more times does nothing to the bore, let alone the cleaning solvents.??

How about the logic of using stuff like JB bore paste??

Yet no one answers the revolver cleaning question??? Why are they all not ruined??

Enjoy fussing with your barrels

 

[taliv]

walkalong and i come from a precision rifle perspective. i'm not aware of any organized shooting discipline that tries to get 1/4 MOA groups out of revolvers, so there's no real data there to discuss. nobody addressed the revolver question because it's irrelevant. clean a revolver any way you want. you won't notice a difference.

i have no idea what your point is regarding jb bore paste.

i don't use bronze brushes, or any kind of brushes because i think they damage bores. i just use cotton patches soaked with various solvents.

it's not hard. wipe it off.

spend 15 seconds looking up tubb's final finish. i just used it as an example to show the difference in how a normal bullet wears a barrel vs one coated with abrasives

 

[Walkalong]

Guilty, as charged

Me too.

 

[Walkalong]

Neither you or Walkalong have provided any documentation. Just anecdotal and hearsay.

Then don't use one, what do I care if you lose accuracy sooner than needed, nor do I have to pay for your replacement barrels, or maybe you don't need peak accuracy out of any of your rifles, but either way, knock yourself out.

Enjoy fussing with your barrels

I do actually. I enjoy caring for a fine piece of machinery. It's not like I have to do it every day.

If it didn't matter, Benchrest shooters would not go through the trouble to protect the bores of their guns that can shoot under .25 MOA if they do their part. They clean after every group at a match. They'll try anything, but only retain what works.

 

[P5 Guy]

Maybe so, but how do they explain the very visible "blunderbuss" shape of the bore at the muzzles of thousands of "Blue Sky" M1's (imported from Korea) which flooded the market in the '60's & '70's. Every M1 I inspected with the Blue Sky importer's marks were smoothbore or close to it at the muzzle, obviously caused by careless use of jointed steel rods.

Just relating what the Garand Collector's Assoc. and the CMP have published. Y'all ought to look into it.

 

[George Foster]

I always use bore guides for both my centerfire and rimfire rifles. I also use stainless steel one piece rods for all my cleaning.

 

[BobABQ]

I am guilty of using bore guides on my rifles. Not so much on my handguns. I typically use nylon bore brushes and stainless steel rods. Some are coated and some are not.

So far so good.

 

[danez71]

walkalong and i come from a precision rifle perspective.

I think this is the crux of the disagreement. Many others come from a practical perspective rather than a precision rifle perspective.

Then don't use one, what do I care if you lose accuracy sooner than needed, nor do I have to pay for your replacement barrels, or maybe you don't need peak accuracy out of any of your rifles, but either way, knock yourself out.

From a precision rifle perspective, maybe... possibly....ok.

But from a practical real world experience from a regular guy with a 35+ yr old 22lr thats pushing 100k rounds and that's been cleaned countless times with a segmented aluminum rod, I can honestly say, I don't think any accelerated wear or abnormal crown wear has occured.


As I said earlier, if I was competing, I'd be all over it. It really could only help... which leads to a possible edge over your competitors.

But since I'm not, and my experience tells me it will take more than my life time to prematurely/abnormally wear a barrel from cleaning just by exhibiting minimal caution, I choose to spend my fist full of dollars on something else thats just as worth while or worthless, depending on the perspective.


And that's where this thread seems to be at. People seem to be arguing that their perspective and/or use is right or more valid because there isn't any data to support the reduced wear claim to discuss (understandably so)


How many more pages before this gets shut down?

 

[taliv]

From a practical perspective I still use a bore guide on my short barreled rifles and carbines. I try to shoot around 10-15k rounds a year through pistols and carbines just to practice. I don’t think they make bore guides for pistols though.
Tbh the only 22lr rifle I have now is a lever gun so on the rare occasion it gets cleaned I usually use a bore snake because I just don’t care. Nothing I do to it would keep it from hitting a Coke can at 50 yards.

 

[danez71]

Right. Choose your method based on intended use and expectations.

It's not like this is a 'single answer fits all' type question.

 

[jdc1244]

As already correctly noted: bore guides make it a lot quicker and easier to clean, particularly with a scope mounted.

 

[Rule3]

Yet no one seems able to answer the question of what does more damage to a bore. Not anything about revolver (again)

Lets take a semi auto. It slams 100rds of rounds into the throat (heaven forbid a HP jams the nose in the feed ram or throat) then a BRASS bullet goes down the barrel at over 1K fps along with hot gases, particles of carbon and other assorted fouling stuff. But that is OK??

Then cleaning a bore with a aluminum or composite cleaning rod and folks are anal about the fact that there may be dust on it or it rubs the barrel a few times?? This is worse than firing 100's of rounds of ammo??????

Lets talk about being "logical"

A bore guide certainly will not hurt anything, is it really needed? Well that is all conjecture.

I enjoy cleaning guns as well This is as "bad" as the best snake oil to use.

 

[danez71]

Well, those are all interesting questions but I think there isn't data either way to answer those questions as there is just too many variables which would drive costs past any sensible return on investment.


For me, for what I shoot, how I shoot, my experience, and my expectations.... I've certainly spent more for less and probably will again before eventually buying it and enjoying the feeling of using something that can really only be beneficial *.


* assuming its not used backwards or some other stupid dutzy act.

 

[Walkalong]

Yet no one seems able to answer the question of what does more damage to a bore.

The only failure is doing it in a way that will satisfy you. Since I feel like you are simply being difficult for your own amusement, I am satisfied with the reasons posters have put forth to use a bore guide with rifles. The pistol thing is just silly, although I also use care in cleaning them when I do.