How many rounds?

[igotta40]

Does it take to shoot out a barrel? Specifically, a 6.5 Creedmoor? I have a Savage 110 Precision Elite I bought new in 2021. I started with it using Hornady factory rounds about the same time I began hand loading. My best shooting had been a single ragged hole using 44.1 grains of Staball 6.5 under a Nosler 140 grain OTM. The factory ammo was good but the hand loads were better. Last 3 times at the range I’ve been averaging 2” - 3” groups with my hand loads. I scrubbed the barrel with a copper remover and flushed it with Hoppe’s No.9 then today I bought a variety of 3 boxes of factory ammo in 129, 140 and 147 to “baseline“ the rifle, so to speak. My point of impact varied some, as I would expect, but all groups were exactly the same, 2-3 inches at 100 yards. This rifle has well under 1,000 rounds through it. I’ve checked all the receiver screws, scope screws, etc. I can dial the scope to move the groups consistently but the size of the groups doesn’t change. The optic is a Crimson Trace 5-25 FFP. I brought along a similar rifle with me, my Savage 110 Precision 300 Win Mag. It’s consistently shooting sub MOA and boring accurate, so that eliminates me as the problem. I’ll have my buddy shoot with me next week and see how he does with it. Sorry for the long post but I’m stumped.

 

[Varminterror]

A 6.5 creed will not be remotely burned out by 1,000 rounds.

Also, burning out a 1/4moa 6.5 creed will not suddenly start spitting out 2-3moa groups.

Something else is amiss. It ain’t barrel life.

 

[JmacD]

Check the crown?

 

[LoonWulf]

scope might have crapped itself.....

 

[stringnut]

Sudden accuracy change equals sudden failure. Barrels wear out gradually. The only exception is some sort of catastrophic event.
I also would suspect the optics. Crowns are hard to damage , but, it does happen.
Pull it out of the stock and make sure nothing is amiss there. An action wandering around , or a barrel touching where it previously didn’t, can have amazing effects on accuracy. None of it is good.

 

[GHinNH]

Should have at least another 1500 rounds to go before even considering barrel life.

Copper remover is fine, but Hoppes No9 is ...nostalgic... to put it nicely. You have to get the hard carbon out, all of it, and carbon just laughs at Hoppes.

I have my method as do others and everyone else related to them. What I will suggest, if you don't already have a borescope, you need one first and foremost.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have a 204 Ruger AR-15 with about 2000 rounds through the barrel. I need to do some range testing but I feel it is shot out after my last prairie dog shoot a couple years ago.

I have a new barrel on hand for the rifle.

I know, not 6.5 Creedmoor, but it gives a data point to consider.

 

[jmr40]

I've never shot out a barrel. But I've read that a 308 should be good for at least 5000 rounds and still retain enough accuracy to be competitive. And be accurate enough for most casual shooters/hunters for 10,000 rounds.

The 243's life expectancy is usually quoted as about 1/2 that.

I've not seen any numbers on 6.5CM, but logic says it should be somewhere in between. I don't think that is the problem.

Savage barrels are known to be somewhat rough and need to be cleaned more often than most others. They are also harder to get clean. And it always takes a few rounds for best accuracy to return after you clean a barrel. My GUESS is that this is where you need to be looking.

 

[JDeere]

See post #4. The 6.5 eats lands faster but not that fast.

 

[Skylerbone]

Another vote for an optics issue but I wouldn’t rule out other possibilities yet. I once had a trusted rifle misbehave during a deer hunt which turned out to be a chunk of debris wedged between the stock and barrel. I don’t normally remove actions without good cause so it took more head scratching than usual.

 

[Turkeytider]

I hope that the OP will keep us up to speed on how this progresses. I`m far from a rifle expert, but I would think that this is something we might all encounter at some point.

 

[Nature Boy]

The very first thing to check is your cleaning methods.

Is it clean? Has a carbon ring formed in the throat? Do we have alternating layers of carbon and copper laid down in the barrel?

If you don’t have a bore scope there’s no definitive way to answer these questions.

 

[JmacD]

I’d go to something like bore tech or wipeout/patchout for cleaner. Hoppes is really not a carbon cutter. IMHO. Not gonna argue it. Just my opinion based on experience

 

[igotta40]

A 6.5 creed will not be remotely burned out by 1,000 rounds.

Also, burning out a 1/4moa 6.5 creed will not suddenly start spitting out 2-3moa groups.

Something else is amiss. It ain’t barrel life.

That’s what I thought as well. I thought brighter minds than mine could illuminate me.

 

[igotta40]

Should have at least another 1500 rounds to go before even considering barrel life.

Copper remover is fine, but Hoppes No9 is ...nostalgic... to put it nicely. You have to get the hard carbon out, all of it, and carbon just laughs at Hoppes.

I have my method as do others and everyone else related to them. What I will suggest, if you don't already have a borescope, you need one first and foremost.

Good idea.

 

[igotta40]

Thanks for the enlightenment, I’ll remove the stock and look for an obvious anomaly then swap the scope with the one on my 300 WinMag. It’s proven.

 

[Nature Boy]

What scope is on it now?

 

[igotta40]

What scope is on it now?

 

[Skylerbone]

I don’t mean to besmirch CT but having looked through 3 examples at the LGS I was praying they received a bad batch. Literally the worst glass I have ever seen in more than 40 years of owning/using rifle scopes.

 

[Varminterror]

I've read that a 308 should be good for at least 5000 rounds and still retain enough accuracy to be competitive.

5,000 is pretty generous for a competitive 308win. It would have to be a cut rifled barrel, no button, very lucky, and the competition format has to be relatively generous - USUALLY 5,000 is only mentioned around Service Rifle barrels for 308, where 1moa can shoot all X’s, the volume is relatively low for the CoF, and sighters allow for compensation of velocity loss. PRS shooters typically bail on 308win around 3000-3500, certainly before 5k, because the velocity slides.

The 243's life expectancy is usually quoted as about 1/2 that.

243win isn’t getting 2500 rounds of “competitive life.” Not by half. I burned up a couple dozen 243win and 243AI barrels, none survived stable life past 1000, usually between 750-900 rounds, SOMETHING would start slipping.

I’m now 11 barrels deep into 6 creed (everything the 243win should have been since the start), and I have not had a single barrel get passed 1100 rounds before I started losing speed. I took one barrel to 2500 rounds, just to see what would happen - it was UGLY how much speed I started losing every 100 rounds fired, just couldn’t trust the barrel to shoot to the predicted waterline at all any more by the time I pulled it.

I've not seen any numbers on 6.5CM, but logic says it should be somewhere in between. I don't think that is the problem.

6.5 creed will typically be slipping by 2500, and I’ve never seen one actually stable at 3,000. A lot of PRS shooters hang on until 3000-3500, but most are using only them for 1 day matches by 3000 (losing 10-15fps per 100rnds, so pushing 100 rounds per match is manageable).

The Bartlein 400modBB barrel steel is pretty unique - it doesn’t quite double barrel life, but it’s giving more than 50% more. But it costs a lot more too.

 

[Nature Boy]

PRS shooters typically bail on 308win around 3000-3500,

That’s about right as well for F/TR.

5,000 would be riding on the steel belts

 

[igotta40]

I picked up on some information on another forum, and from searching articles regarding carbon ring problems. Here’s a handful of image's from my borescope that I might need help interpreting. I’ll try to explain what I’m posting. The first images are the muzzle end, chamber and bolt face. Then a couple p of the bore midway showing the lands/grooves. The last set are the leade area.

 

[igotta40]

Pictures of the bore

 

[igotta40]

Here’s the area of concern where the chamber transitions to the rifling. Photo from the breech pointing into the barrel.

 

[jmorris]

Does it take to shoot out a barrel? Specifically, a 6.5 Creedmoor? I have a Savage 110 Precision Elite I bought new in 2021

I could do it in one, with a long enough string and would bet "the limit" of anyone that would doubt that fact.