How Many Times?

[Riomouse911]

I would point it out if we were trap shooting, at a range, etc. the first time it happens.

If it isn’t something with immediacy and gets repeated 2 times after being told, I am packing up.

If it is patently unsafe, I will warn/educate and then be on my toes to see if it happens again. If it does, adios! And I’m not shooting with them again.

Stay safe.

Stay safe.

 

[scaatylobo]

Let me get back to your question (above). I can only remember one person who would fail to heed safety advice. All others immediately corrected their behavior (at least in my presence).
Back to the one. He was a retired undercover police officer who belonged to our shooting club. He continually would set a target at 25 feet beyond the firing line and would walk toward it while shooting (apparently as he had been trained) (let's not get into if that is a good scenerio).
He would insist, since 'he knew we were good shots', he was not in danger.
We gave up trying to convince him that it was unsafe behavior and we would simpley stop shooting until he finished and returned to the firing line.
He had passed (but not due unsafe shooting)

Retired cop here,and he would be thrown out of either of the 2 clubs I shoot at.

And ANY range I have ever been to.

Guess you live in a very different state than me.

 

[tarosean]

When I walk into the LGS, there are about a hundred handguns in the cases pointing at me. It is not dangerous until someone is holding the gun. Guns don't go off by themselves.

You have obviously never seen that video of that ring of fire gun shooting up a range all by its lonesome.

Agree with the premise though. There are guns in my safes that point through walls. Etc


OP that old saying about Leading horses to water comes to mind. If you have said your peace leave it at that.

 

[crstrode]

Minya.
Nunya.

 

[epags]

Retired cop here,and he would be thrown out of either of the 2 clubs I shoot at.

And ANY range I have ever been to.

Guess you live in a very different state than me.

Had it been the formal club I also belong to, you are right.
However, in this case, about 8 of us rented a range solely for our use (and created "The Unique Gun Club"), We were/are all retired &/or ex military/LE and all old farts so we can and did cut him a little slack since we had 100% control of the range and monitored his actions.

 

[unspellable]

I got gigged by the RSO for having a revolver clamped in my range box pointing back. The box holds two pointing one way and one pointing the opposite way. This is not much different than having a gun in a case. I'm offering no opinions on the above, but there might be such a thing as carrying things too far.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

If the unsafe activity had a direct effect on me I would tell them once as I was walking out the door or otherwise leaving the location never to be in their presence again if firearms were involved.

 

[gwpercle]

Anytime an action threatens your safety , person points loaded gun at you , Say Something ... if other person keeps endangering your life ... give him 1 or 2 more chances ... then just pack up and leave .
I would not hang around people who will not safely handle firearms .
Safe Gun Handling isn't hard ... a little common sense and respect for all .

You don't need or want Fools for friends ... they can get you killed !
Gary

 

[gwpercle]

I got gigged by the RSO for having a revolver clamped in my range box pointing back. The box holds two pointing one way and one pointing the opposite way. This is not much different than having a gun in a case. I'm offering no opinions on the above, but there might be such a thing as carrying things too far.

A revolver clamped in a pistol box rack ... if it's like the shooting boxes Pachmayer used to sell and we used for NRA Bullseye Match Indoor shooting ... Do Not allow any way for the gun to be fired , you can't cock the gun and the cylinder is clamped in place ... I think the RSO was pushing his " authority" just a little too far ...
He needs to become a member of the real world ... I'm sure He can "What If" any scenario To Death !
Gary

 

[Hugger-4641]

I've probably been guilty of setting a gun down on a table or bench and then getting in front of the muzzle at some point. But it's not a practice to be comfortable with and I sure as heck wouldn't post a picture of that on social media.
God forbid this guy has an "accident" or someone in his house does and that picture is used in court.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

A bunch of you folks are way more tolerant than me. Any gun owner has the responsibility to know and follow safe handling practices. If they don't I don't wish to be in the same location with them and a firearm. If it is a new shooter that I am teaching they get one alibi that's it. Even my kids lost privileges for a significant period of time for a second offense.

 

[shafter]

If the behavior is making me unsafe then I'll mention it as often as needed. If it isn't affecting me then I'm not going to keep saying it. I won't keep pestering someone about not wearing their seatbelt if they think they're good. Try to stop me from wearing one and we'll be done driving together.

Bottom line is that if it's unloaded then there is no safety issue. It's a bad habit to get into because one day it may bite you but the fact is that unloaded guns can't hurt anyone. Maybe its unloaded and he just doesn't care.

 

[scaatylobo]

Had it been the formal club I also belong to, you are right.
However, in this case, about 8 of us rented a range solely for our use (and created "The Unique Gun Club"), We were/are all retired &/or ex military/LE and all old farts so we can and did cut him a little slack since we had 100% control of the range and monitored his actions.

If as you state it was "just friends" then I would tell him to f off and take my butt to a safe place to shoot.

Seen a few ND/AD's and even a shot butt on a real range. NOT my range !.

I was a firearms instructor and yes,I might be anal about safety.

BUTT it stops me from getting a round in the butt !.

 

[epags]

I was a firearms instructor and yes,I might be anal about safety.

BUTT it stops me from getting a round in the butt !.

And I understand your position and agree with you.

Relative to this one indvidual, the retired officer knew how to handle his firearm safely (but, if he were at any other range, would be putting himself in danger, not us, by walking forward of the firing line.) Our little group recognized and undertood that he was practicing what he did in combat (well, as an undercover agent & 35 years ago) and let him practice while we observed.
FWIW, his real life 'score' on putting bad guy away (one way or another) was legend and I, personnaly, would be happy to have him watching my six. (Well, my 12 maybe )

 

[The Night Rider]

I won't keep pestering someone about not wearing their seatbelt if they think they're good. Try to stop me from wearing one and we'll be done driving together.

In my car you wear a seat belt. Non-negotiable.

Bottom line is that if it's unloaded then there is no safety issue. It's a bad habit to get into because one day it may bite you but the fact is that unloaded guns can't hurt anyone.

What is this "Unloaded gun" you speak of?

Does "Treat all guns as loaded" sound at all familiar to you?

The most common excuse for and accidental shooting is "I didn't know it was loaded."

 

[shafter]

In my car you wear a seat belt. Non-negotiable.

What is this "Unloaded gun" you speak of?

Does "Treat all guns as loaded" sound at all familiar to you?

The most common excuse for and accidental shooting is "I didn't know it was loaded."

An unloaded gun is an unloaded gun and contrary to what some believe they actually do exist. The only guns that have ever shot anyone have been loaded ones. A better safety rule would be to know the condition of your weapon at all times.

 

[jmorris]

How many times would you point out unsafe behavior to a friend before you dropped it

There are no circumstances under which I would allow them to so much as touch a firearm in my presence.

I’d probably drop it after I came to the same conclusion you did.

 

[unspellable]

Example of the "unloaded" gun. I had a S&W model 41 in a Webley holster (loose fit) on the truck seat, magazine loaded, chamber empty. Now the chamber was known to be empty to nine thousand decimal places. On arriving in the barn yard I pulled the holster out and the pistol fell out and landed butt first. I did some moaning and groaning about the chip in the stock, stripped the magazine, pointed it at the ground and pulled the trigger, Sure enough, BANG! In hind sight it was apparent that it landed butt first hard enough to rack the slide. "Never point it in an unsafe direction." saved the day.
P.S. Only non-intentional I ever had.

 

[Resist Evil]

Working in modern construction, OSHA rules and certifications, toolbox safety meetings, and on the job reminders influenced me to embrace the "safety culture" without resorting to fanaticism. Earlier in my career, safety wasn't a priority. It was simply just get the job done. I couldn't find ear plugs, if I even gave them a thought, on a job site in those days. I had to carry my own band aids in my wallet, with more in my lunch bucket when the new safety guys came through and poo-pooed our using our black tape as bandages. So, we put a band-aid on and wrapped it with our black tape.

The four rules are just as deeply ingrained and important to me. They're habits now and I follow them routinely with hardly a thought. It's up to the individual how sensibly they are going to apply the rules. In the hunting cabin, we always talked about muzzle discipline and trigger finger placement before we went out. We bounced two guys over the years who were unable to comply.

I will allow a relationship to wither if some acquaintance or friend is routinely lackadaisical about firearm safety in my presence.

 

[Coyote3855]

Anti2A much?

Member since 2008. One post and it attacks a long time member. Did I miss something.

I have no tolerance for unsafe handling in my presence. If I saw the social media mentioned in the OP, I would mention it to my friend once and forget about it.

I help teach Personal Protection in the Home classes. Students of all experience levels who have taken Basic Pistol are eligible. If a student open the case with muzzle pointed towards themselves, we have them reverse the case before picking up the gun. Even if there is a chamber flag or the slide is locked back. The goal is make them very conscious of muzzle direction.

 

[3Crows]

People walk around all day every day with loaded, safety-less pistols pointed straight at their cojones with nary an issue. Guns don't just "go off" without being handled unless they're in some way defective. I don't think your friends actions are cause for concern. JMHO.

Unless you are a Hollywood actor making a movie about oxidation ---.

 

[grampster]

In the interest of not becoming lackadaisical with respect to firearms, one should always never have a firearm pointed in the direction of something you don't wish to shoot. Loaded, unloaded doesn't matter. Carelessness is the child of neglecting safety. We humans have a tendency to rationalize just about anything. The Four Rules are not suggestions nor are they to be neglected in any fashion at any time. I'd not publicly provide criticism unless the problem is in your presence and immediate.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[scaatylobo]

And I understand your position and agree with you.

Relative to this one indvidual, the retired officer knew how to handle his firearm safely (but, if he were at any other range, would be putting himself in danger, not us, by walking forward of the firing line.) Our little group recognized and undertood that he was practicing what he did in combat (well, as an undercover agent & 35 years ago) and let him practice while we observed.
FWIW, his real life 'score' on putting bad guy away (one way or another) was legend and I, personnaly, would be happy to have him watching my six. (Well, my 12 maybe )

Sorry if you misunderstood me.

I have done HOT ranges with all shooters moving,and yes some in front of others BUT in their own lane.

Its just that him doing this without the express consent of all,NOT a good thing.

And I stick by my rule.

I do not want to be there if ever there is a stray round !.

 

[doubleh]

I'm with RioMouse when it comes to adults. You continue to do stupid things after they are pointed out I'm leaving.

Kids are somewhat different although it's been ages since I instructed any except for my grand kids and great grand kids. Back in the day our club put on a training school for high school aged kids, many of which were girls, They got the safety basics down quickly and the girls were easier to work with than the boys as they listened better.

I started my children, grand children, and great grand ones at an early age. They quickly learned almost everything quickly and only got to shoot anything as a single shot until I could tell they were safe shooters. The main thing that took a little time was finger off the trigger until in position to shoot. I'm sure they tired of hearing grandpa say "TRIGGER" when they picked up the gun they were going to shoot. Kids need more time than adults and my #2 gg-daugher was the worst for some reason about her trigger finger.

 

[bdickens]

I imagine that Jeff Cooper expected that one would apply logic and critical thinking skills along with the four rules.

Col. Cooper had a tendency to be rather expressive in his use of language which of course made for many memorable quotes. Problems is the more literal minded treat them as Devine decrees carved onto stone tablets and apply religious zealotry to things like the four rules instead of understanding what they really mean. They use thought-stopping techniques when faced with the cognitive dissonance brought about by literal interpretation of the words instead of understanding the meaning behind them.