How many yards away will a BG be?

[45crittergitter]

Yards???

The “average†shooting: less than 10 feet, less than 4 seconds, less (sic) than 4 rounds, diminished lighting. – “Jim Groverâ€, G&A 1996

80% of gunfights occur within 6 yards and 50% within 5 feet. Of the 20% occurring beyond 6 yards, almost all are within 15 yards. – John McSweeney, GW, 04/02

 

[Grayrock]

Thank you for all the erudite responses. My next question then is at what distance should I "ZERO" my sights? How much leeway is there if I Zero at 15 yards? How far over POA will it be at 10 and under at 50 yards? I can't have a constant zero, so what should I pick as my zero distance?

 

[David N]

I think the first thing to realize is that you probably won't have time to use your sights at all.
98% of street crime occurs at 21 feet or less. (feet, not yards)., according to FBI statistics.
An excellant treatment of this is found in "Bulleyes Don't Shoot Back: The Complete Text of Point Shooting" by Col. Rex Applegate (Paladin Press).

 

[ACP]

I zero my guns at 15 yards. More importantly than taking aim for a "headshot" in a "hostage" situation, hang an 8" paper plate (or two, about 3-5 feet apart to symbolize two attackers) on any of your targets and practice emptying you gun onto those paper plates at ranges from contact distance out to 15-20 feet or so, from the leather, as fast as possible. Do it with both eyes open and squared to our tagets, which is what some stress drills show you'll do.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Steve in PA's data...
In 2001, there were 61 LEO's killed feloniously by firearms. Here is the break down of distances.

Officers/distance
27 / 0-5 feet
19 / 6-10 feet
5 / 11-20 feet
5 / 21-50 feet
3 / over 50 feet
2 / not reported

Actually, these numbers don't reflect some relevant points. First, several of the officers are killed with their own guns and killed in scuffles for those guns and no doubt that comprises part of the 0-5 feet range. The other aspect is that cops are trained to use distance in their favor. The result is that many of their gun battles take place at distances greater than would be the case for normal non-leo situations such as where somebody was trying to rob you. So even though the LEO data shows a lot a fairly close range, for non-leos, the percentages at closer range are probably greater.

Several folks here have mentioned gunfights. If they are using gunfight data, the data will be skewed. A lot of folks killed while being robbed end up as the victim of a shooting and not the victim of a gun fight. The difference is a little overly specific, but valid. The victims either did not have a gun, were not able to access the gun, or never managed to use the gun in defense. Bad guys feel comfortable being closer to folks they believe don't have weapons than to folks that do have weapons.

 

[Steve in PA]

3 were killed with their own weapons,

46 were killed with handguns,

11 were killed with rifles,

4 were killed with shotguns.

U.S. Department of Justice
FBI
Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted - 2001

And yes, LEOs will be in closer proximity to BG's due to traffic stops, domestics, etc.....in general, a shooting will more than likely be under 10 feet.

 

[Jake 98c/11b]

I am not sure Steve. The police are close because their job requires it. The private citizen is close because the bad guy wants something from him and must be close enough to have it passed to them (watch, wallet, etc.). The LEOs could be at some distance because they are responding to a crime in progress and are outside the danger zone initially. If a private citizen is outside the danger zone they will probably just keep moving away. I think the police may have longer range encounters overall than the private citizen, not that it matters to this topic.

 

[curt]

I don't think in terms of yards for pistol shooting since i doubt i'll be able to find those range markers if its ever for real. I shoot at almost contact from a retention position and move on back some for two handed shooting (i'm trying out isoceles now after having shot from weaver for years). I shoot at 25 yds every session to practice my trigger control and to know i can hit well at that range, 50 yds when its available. i can't imagine a realistic situation situation where i'd have to shoot from more than 50 yds. If the BG has a handgun much past 50 yards odds are slim he could hit me as a runaway like a little girl at mach 2. If he has a rifle i'd do best to follow the same strategy or take cover .

 

[Obiwan]

Probably somewhere between less than 1...and far enough away to disengage.

(beyond a certain point I am a firm believer in the Nike Defense)

I recommend starting as close as you feel comfortable and working your way back.

Decide on a group size (no more than 8") and move back only when you can get the hits...every time.