I have quite a few cases prepped for 223 loads, but they are in a variety of manufacturers. I found a load that shot really well yesterday using Federal brass. If I switch to say Norma or Hornady brass, both of which I have prepped, will that make a big difference?
How Much Difference Does Brass Make?
- Thread starter DMW1116
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Brass can make a heck of a difference, especially on max loads. Case volume varies by manufacturer. The only way to really tell is to weigh the water capacity of each using scales and a dropper. Several grains difference in water weight shows different case capacities.
For my 223/5.56 loads, most of the time, I don't load particularly stiff. Actually, I'm on the low side as the load I found most accurate is just that. With it I can mix brass and have no problems but if I'm going for best accuracy I sort brass by headstamp.
For my 223/5.56 loads, most of the time, I don't load particularly stiff. Actually, I'm on the low side as the load I found most accurate is just that. With it I can mix brass and have no problems but if I'm going for best accuracy I sort brass by headstamp.
AJC1
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The biggest difference that you will see in cases is going from mixed brass to a single manufacturer. On Target unless you're a benchrest shooter are you going to see the difference between Lake City and Lapua I think not in 223 used in an AR
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forty_caliber
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Can make a big difference depending on the use case as AJC1 said. Assembling some blasting ammo for plinking / practice drill is a different animal compared precision match target ammo.
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It can make a difference. I load for 3 different cartridges and have several hundred pieces of brass for each from a variety of manufacturers. For my 308 I primarily use Hornady, Nosler, Remington, and Winchester brass. Based on my experience all of that brass is close enough for me to use the same load data in my rifles. But I don't mix the brass. I may load a batch or 150 gr bullets with Hornady brass. The 165 gr loads might be loaded in Winchester brass, etc.
I also have some military brass and have used Federal in the past. I found that I could not use the same load data with those brands of brass. I am able to get accurate loads, and the same velocity as the other brass, but needed a different (lower) powder charge. The same powder charge that was a mid level load in Winchester brass might be pushing the envelope if used in military or Federal brass.
I also have some military brass and have used Federal in the past. I found that I could not use the same load data with those brands of brass. I am able to get accurate loads, and the same velocity as the other brass, but needed a different (lower) powder charge. The same powder charge that was a mid level load in Winchester brass might be pushing the envelope if used in military or Federal brass.
Blue68f100
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If you run a water volume on your different mfg, you will find out if you can mix them. I know LC can vary by year. Just make sure all the brass is in the same state of prep. I run mine on fully prepped cases ready to load.
berettaprofessor
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Sort your brass for rifle. It's worth it. For handgun, who cares (I sort it by habit in some calibers, not in 32ACP or 25ACP).
I’ve never water tested them, but I’ve weighed a bunch of brass and ran the loads across a chrono to see the difference. Federal is one of the lighter cases (92-93 gr. range)and thus gives the lowest velocities. Hornady varies a lot depending if it came from Match loads or Black. Same with Norma.
CBC is heavy (100 gr. range) MEN is the heaviest I’ve weighed (105 or more). I’ve found upwards of 90 fps difference from just light brass loads to heavy brass loads, (Federal vs. CBC) where the brass was the only variable. Shooting out to longer distances this may be a problem, but POI was about the same at the shorter ranges I usually shoot.
Don’t push maximum loads with mixed brass and you’ll not likely notice the difference.
CBC is heavy (100 gr. range) MEN is the heaviest I’ve weighed (105 or more). I’ve found upwards of 90 fps difference from just light brass loads to heavy brass loads, (Federal vs. CBC) where the brass was the only variable. Shooting out to longer distances this may be a problem, but POI was about the same at the shorter ranges I usually shoot.
Don’t push maximum loads with mixed brass and you’ll not likely notice the difference.
Yet another reason to use the 23.5 charge weight instead of the 25. The max I'll be shooting is 300 yards, so it likely won't make a difference. Just for funsies I may load one batch at max, for the rare occasion I do get to go to the 300 yard range. I have enough Federal brass I can use for it and have a load I know is already tested.
FWIW I weighed the Hornady (Black) brass and it was lighter than the Federal or Norma. I must say I do like the way Norma crimped their primers. 3 individual dents instead of the circle.
FWIW I weighed the Hornady (Black) brass and it was lighter than the Federal or Norma. I must say I do like the way Norma crimped their primers. 3 individual dents instead of the circle.
AJC1
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There are a bunch of ways to swage a primer, staking with the 3 prongs messes up the writing on the case sometimes, not my favorite.
Charlie98
Member
Interesting you mention that.
I was working through a bunch of .30-06 brass for my M1 this weekend. I picked up 30 Hornady cases in a batch that I bought, and... well, they felt light. So I threw a few on the scale...
Hor: 177grn
RP: 200grn
FC: 205grn
...the FC was almost 30grn heavier! What that means to me is the Hornady brass is likely thinner, which isn't a good thing in an M1 Garand. Further, and assuming it also means greater volume, it will likely translate to less velocity. It could also mean the necks are thinner, which could affect other aspects of my handloads, including neck tension. Just food for thought.
AJC1
Member
I'll probably just load it all at the mid load for accuracy. I may take 3 each out of the Norma, Hornady, Lake City, etc and test them. That will still leave plenty for no more than I've been shooting lately. Hopefully my cohort can score me some primers on his supply run tomorrow. If so, I have some 55 grain FMJ to test.
EccentricInTexas
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I usually just sort my 556 brass by weight and try to load a box per weight. Except for range rounds which are all mixed up. This isn't too much of a problem since I usually load 2nd's and blemishes 55gr fmj. I usually have a two inch spread at 100 yards out of my Mossberg MVP with those but all the soft points I've shot were inside a quarter. I have started to Neck size my 556 brass for the MVP but I have not chronod any of it to see what effect it has over full length sizing. The next time I reload some I plan on sorting by weight and seeing just how accurate I can get stuff.
I also had more case capacity in Hornady 223 brass. Because of this it gets separated out. Everything else is close enough. I don't necessarily hot rod it though.
Charlie98
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Well... the Garand is a plinker, anyway... I'm more concerned about brass failure than I am absolute performance. Ripping a case head off in the middle of the NV desert isn't something I look forward to.
I don't normally quibble over brass... if it has shortcomings I usually junk it... but for some reason I'm reluctant to chuck these in the scrap bucket. Maybe I need to torture test them...
Here's another FWIW; When working up a load I try for consistency. I use the same cases headstamp w/date. I weigh and measure every cast bullet, I weigh every powder charge, and use the same primers. Normally I won't load less than 10-12 and when I find a promising load, "The Load" I'll relax my standards. Often the first change is going to mixed brass and with my rifle loads many I see a difference, but with my hand gun loads rarely. Except my 44 Magnum loads when change in brass is many times noticeable. Long and tedious process? Maybe, but fun...
Howland937
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Everyone who has opined the merits of sorting brass pretty much covered all the reasons why it's beneficial.
I'm curious as to what your expectations are though. Are you looking for the most accuracy and precision you can achieve? Are you just looking for good quality blasting ammo that cycles reliably and puts you on 4" steel at 100 yards?
I'm curious as to what your expectations are though. Are you looking for the most accuracy and precision you can achieve? Are you just looking for good quality blasting ammo that cycles reliably and puts you on 4" steel at 100 yards?
This will be for my DMR (discount marksman rifle) so I'd like to be able to replicate the best of the groups I got Saturday, which were less than an inch at 100 yards. I'll weigh some more brass and probably sort out the Hornady if it's that different.
AJC1
Member
If you are group shooting you can just separate them in your box and shoot like head stamps or weights together. Your poi may shift a little so using that brass during warm up might be ok. Depending on how deep you want to go down the rabbit hole you can cronograph the rounds and tune them to the same velosity. In the same gun with the same bullet you can figure out the adjustment to charges needed to make constant velocity over several case manufacturers with slightly different volumes. This is not a value driven exercise as you will spend more in testing than just buying cases, but if you enjoy reloading and figuring things out it may be fun.
It depends on what you are doing with the loads? If you are plinking with your AR-15... pretty much no difference. If you are competing from a bench... use brass from the same manufacture and sort it into lots based on the weight of the brass for best accuracy.
It is all relative on what type of accuracy you are chasing.
The only thing I REALLY look out for in .223 plinking brass is military .556 brass getting mixed in. Military .556 brass is heavier, thicker and has a big enough reduction in volume from commercial brass that it can be dangerous with max loads.
This has been proven false over and over again.
Try measuring case capacity on military brass. It runs the same as most others.
7.62x51 is a totally different thing.
Highland Lofts
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I load a lot of plinking loads for my grandson to shoot up.
I am taking him to Upstate New York deer hunting with me. I did 55 grain soft points and 60 grain flat base soft points.
The 60 grain made five shots in to one hole in the target about the size of a pencil.
The 55 grain was opened up a little so I loaded him up fifty rounds of the 60 grain Hornady FBSP, mixed brass. All trimmed to the same length.
Long range I'm sure the different brand cases would make a difference, but for shooting 50 to a 100 yards I'll stick with mixed range brass for what we do.
I am taking him to Upstate New York deer hunting with me. I did 55 grain soft points and 60 grain flat base soft points.
The 60 grain made five shots in to one hole in the target about the size of a pencil.
The 55 grain was opened up a little so I loaded him up fifty rounds of the 60 grain Hornady FBSP, mixed brass. All trimmed to the same length.
Long range I'm sure the different brand cases would make a difference, but for shooting 50 to a 100 yards I'll stick with mixed range brass for what we do.
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