How much filler to use
- Thread starter Eroc 51
- Start date
- Status
DD4lifeusmc
Member
never have used filler to me just a waste.
I doubt 5 to 15 grains of actual powder is going to break me.
But presuming you are shooting a pietta 1858 with a roundball
the equivalent in volume of filler to powder. Or about 10 grains.
Or trial and error
add 5 grains to the first cylinder and 10 to the next, look carefully,
is the ball still sufficiently below the surface to add 5 more grains of filler?
if so then go for it.
It also depends on what you are using for your filler.
I use 30 grains of fffg for my charge. sometimes I top that off with another 5 grains of fffg powder as the filler
I doubt 5 to 15 grains of actual powder is going to break me.
But presuming you are shooting a pietta 1858 with a roundball
the equivalent in volume of filler to powder. Or about 10 grains.
Or trial and error
add 5 grains to the first cylinder and 10 to the next, look carefully,
is the ball still sufficiently below the surface to add 5 more grains of filler?
if so then go for it.
It also depends on what you are using for your filler.
I use 30 grains of fffg for my charge. sometimes I top that off with another 5 grains of fffg powder as the filler
Mike OTDP
Member
Depends on the filler. Corn meal compresses quite a bit, fill the chamber. Cream of Wheat is not as compressible, I'd leave about 3/4 of a ball diameter empty.
Erwan
Member
OK, the filler charge, is it for a Remington or a Colt ? What's the length/volume of your cylinder chamber, alveole or other ?
Filler have not any weight because it's depend of the kind of it, the charge of filler is only volumetric, look: most of the Remington NA have a 30 or 34mm long cylinder then what is the weight of the filler charge.
U can't know but U can mesure or calculate the volume you need, you do this only once time for all and it will be fine...
That is the right way for all weapons and cartridges, never use weight but only volume.
What's the weight of fine semolina and the weight of corn meal or other filler for an equal volume, U don't know and U don't care: put only the good volume and the ball will sets at the right place in the cylinder or chamber/alveole if you prefer this word...
Filler have not any weight because it's depend of the kind of it, the charge of filler is only volumetric, look: most of the Remington NA have a 30 or 34mm long cylinder then what is the weight of the filler charge.
U can't know but U can mesure or calculate the volume you need, you do this only once time for all and it will be fine...
That is the right way for all weapons and cartridges, never use weight but only volume.
What's the weight of fine semolina and the weight of corn meal or other filler for an equal volume, U don't know and U don't care: put only the good volume and the ball will sets at the right place in the cylinder or chamber/alveole if you prefer this word...
delrom418
Member
I use 20 grains of 2f in my .44 cal steel framed Army's and Navy's with a lubed wad, but no filler. The ball sets back in the chamber, but the rammer is still long enough to seat the ball with good compression. This load is strong enough to knock down the steel plates used for cowboy action shooting so that's all the powder I use.
J-Bar
Member
I could be wrong, but in my opinion unless you are in a serious bullseye competition, using filler to get the ball closer to the barrel is an unnecessary extra step. You can plink away just fine with a deeply seated ball and have lots of fun without the extra mess.
Fingers McGee
Member
What J-Bar said.
Noz
Member
J-Bar and Fingers have it right.
BCRider
Member
Come on guys... When has "good enough" ever been good enough for any of us? If I have two guns where one shoots really nice and makes me look good and another that produces groups twice the size guess which one is going to the range and which one ends up being sold? If I know a gun is not shooting as well as I can manage and if I can fix that with a few grains of filler to shift the ball up in the chamber then guess what I'm going to do? I may not worry about ultimate accuracy when I'm pretending to be a cowboy. But if I'm shooting paper for fun and practice I want the guns to be as accurate as I am. And I strongly suspect that you lot are all the same. It's no fun shooting a sloppy grouping gun be it a rifle or a handgun.
Eroc, do you by any chance have a set or some of the Lee dipper measures? You could use these to come up with a measurement for a filler that allows the balls to seat at different depths. Along with that you'll also want to try to get a better feel for the balls crunching into place so the compression on the powder is at least decently consistent. You'll want to shoot these combinations for accuracy to see if it really helps.
Either buy such a set or make your own dipper measures. You can make them from range brass used full size or cut shorter so they hold set amounts. Common solid strand 14Ga house wire can be stripped down and soldered to the cases to form handles. If you're a handy sort with common hand tools and know how to solder you can produce a nice variety of sizes over the course of an evening.
What are you using as a lubricant? Lube wads? Packing the space over the balls with some manner of grease? Other?
I'm in the "other" category. Since I started I've relied on a small drop of Canola cooking oil applied to the ball where it meets the wall of the chamber. I use enough that it wicks rapidly around the groove but not so much that it runs out much if at all. I like this method because it's easy to do and the canola oil cuts into the fouling well. And being so even and light I'd like to think that it doesn't affect the ball too much.
Eroc, do you by any chance have a set or some of the Lee dipper measures? You could use these to come up with a measurement for a filler that allows the balls to seat at different depths. Along with that you'll also want to try to get a better feel for the balls crunching into place so the compression on the powder is at least decently consistent. You'll want to shoot these combinations for accuracy to see if it really helps.
Either buy such a set or make your own dipper measures. You can make them from range brass used full size or cut shorter so they hold set amounts. Common solid strand 14Ga house wire can be stripped down and soldered to the cases to form handles. If you're a handy sort with common hand tools and know how to solder you can produce a nice variety of sizes over the course of an evening.
What are you using as a lubricant? Lube wads? Packing the space over the balls with some manner of grease? Other?
I'm in the "other" category. Since I started I've relied on a small drop of Canola cooking oil applied to the ball where it meets the wall of the chamber. I use enough that it wicks rapidly around the groove but not so much that it runs out much if at all. I like this method because it's easy to do and the canola oil cuts into the fouling well. And being so even and light I'd like to think that it doesn't affect the ball too much.
If you load powder, filler, then ball you're compressing them all at the same time, which to my way of thinking makes it harder to determine the amount of filler you need. I load off the gun with a press and before I add filler, I compress the powder, which makes it easier to be more precise with filler. I use Cream of wheat for filler which doesn't tend to compress as much as some other options.
Personally, I have gained better accuracy with the ball seated closer to the chamber mouth. Just my experience.
loose noose
Member
Again I prefer a commercial Wonder Wad as far as filler goes, along with 27 grains of 3F Goex BP (I do believe my Pietta's Remington Army's will accept up to 36grns of 3F) it is a lot less messier than using a cereal for filler, and quite a bit faster. I also smear bore butter over the cylinder to prevent a chain fire.
Packman
Member
In my 1859, I use about 25-30 grains of ffg, top that off with a .38 special casing full of corn meal, slap a ball on it and call it good. I usually top the ball with some bore butter to keep the fouling softer, and sometimes I'll run a felt wad between the corn meal and the ball, in which case I usually skip the bore butter on top of the ball. I use .457 balls that shave a nice ring of lead during ramming, so I'm not concerned with chain fires.
Do what works. I shot without filler for a while. I tried it, liked the results aND stuck with it. Part of the fun of black powder is the experimentation with loads that I can do.
Do what works. I shot without filler for a while. I tried it, liked the results aND stuck with it. Part of the fun of black powder is the experimentation with loads that I can do.
Dog Soldier
member
I enjoy shooting the Old Army Rugers and the Colt Walker Rpros. I have never read an account of anyone in the old days using their corn meal to load a six shooter. They loaded their Colts to the maximum and made Johnny Cakes out of their corn meal. 
D. Buck Stopshere
Member
It just depends...... folks that are SASS shooters will load differently than plinkers, "max loaders", and NMLRA Line Shooters.
How accurate do you want to be and how far are you going to shoot? Are you shooting to win a match or just enjoying an afternoon off?
Define "accuracy"? Are you shooting at a CAS metal silhouette at 7 yards or a "B-6 (T)" target at 50 yards?
I've been shooting NMLRA Line Matches since 1987, so I can only recommend my loads to someone who either wants to shoot the best score he can at 25 yards & 50 yards, or win line matches at a NMLRA club shoot.
Like some here who have already advised, I use 20 grains of Swiss 3FG followed by cream of wheat that fills 7/8's of the cylinder in my Ruger Old Army & my Navy Arms Remington Deluxe Model .44 caliber (AKA Pietta "Shooters Model"), then a Hornady .457 RB, followed by grease. I use a cylinder press.
It just depends.......25 yards, one hand, NAC New Model Army Remington Deluxe Model,
How accurate do you want to be and how far are you going to shoot? Are you shooting to win a match or just enjoying an afternoon off?
Define "accuracy"? Are you shooting at a CAS metal silhouette at 7 yards or a "B-6 (T)" target at 50 yards?
I've been shooting NMLRA Line Matches since 1987, so I can only recommend my loads to someone who either wants to shoot the best score he can at 25 yards & 50 yards, or win line matches at a NMLRA club shoot.
Like some here who have already advised, I use 20 grains of Swiss 3FG followed by cream of wheat that fills 7/8's of the cylinder in my Ruger Old Army & my Navy Arms Remington Deluxe Model .44 caliber (AKA Pietta "Shooters Model"), then a Hornady .457 RB, followed by grease. I use a cylinder press.
It just depends.......25 yards, one hand, NAC New Model Army Remington Deluxe Model,
Mike OTDP
Member
Nice group. Ever thought about trying out for the International Team?
D. Buck Stopshere
Member
Mike,
Turned 70 and arthritis is setting in the joints. Sold my backup Pietta "Shooters Model" for 4 Bills,
so the writing is on the wall. Had a good run with the eleven revolvers & pistols. Probably will keep my Ruger Old Army & Ruger "Old Navy" .36 caliber custom revolver. Thanks for the Invite. I stay in touch with Tom Wilkins & Todd Wentzel here in NC.
Turned 70 and arthritis is setting in the joints. Sold my backup Pietta "Shooters Model" for 4 Bills,
so the writing is on the wall. Had a good run with the eleven revolvers & pistols. Probably will keep my Ruger Old Army & Ruger "Old Navy" .36 caliber custom revolver. Thanks for the Invite. I stay in touch with Tom Wilkins & Todd Wentzel here in NC.
- Status
