How Often Are Handguns Used In Warfare?

[HGM22]

How common is it to see handguns used in a war zone (both today and in the past 100 years)? I'm not a soldier so the only wars I've seen have been on TV or in print. From what I've gathered its pretty uncommon to see handguns used in warfare. Most soldiers aren't even issued handguns, and many rebels are lucky just to get an AK47 and enough ammo for 3 magazines.

Were they more common in WWII? Seems like they would have had more utility then in combating urban enemy occupational forces (a la French resistance).

 

[OilyPablo]

I could only think in dire circumstances. But I have no direct evidence.

 

[Coop45]

about as often as entrenching tools..........when the caca gets really serious.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Three tours in Iraq, and I saw a handgun used once. This was in a firefight when this particular soldier and his rifle weren't getting along. He ditched his rifle and engaged with his pistol til it ran dry.

I carried an M9, but never shot it outside of training.

and many rebels are lucky just to get an AK47 and enough ammo for 3 magazines.

Three magazines? Man, that must be one lucky rebel. Most of the AK's we confiscated had only one magazine, and the insurgents often had very little extra ammo, stuffed loose in their pockets. Rarely, the rounds were on a stripper clip.

 

[Ron James]

It has happened, but rarely, and it only happens when there is no other recourse. No one will use a pistol if they have a rifle handy, and then they will use the pistol to fight their way to a rifle. However, I will confess, carrying a pistol , in addition to a rifle, does give a person a nice warm feeling , even if it is a personal weapon. I think it is because of all the cowboy movies we watched as a kid.

 

[1911 guy]

We always trained to use the pistol as a circumstance specific weapon and transition back to the rifle as soon as the pistol was no longer preferred by circumstance.

 

[Water-Man]

I saw them used several times in Nam.

 

[sgt127]

Buddy of mine is Army SF. We talk about gun stuff. The pistol doesn't see much use. Occasionally clearing a very small area. A closet, crawl space. Inside a vehicle. Something along those lines. But, that's about it.

SF MAY use them just a little more than regular troops. But, again, not often according to him.

 

[Jim K]

In the past (think American Civil War), the pistol (revolver) was used by mounted cavalry, though often as secondary to the saber. The carbine was used when the cavalry fought dismounted, but was almost never used from horseback.

In WWI, the pistol (or revolver) was carried as a defensive weapon by just about any soldier who was not a front-line infantryman (officers, NCO's, machinegunners, artillerymen, etc. Pistols were also issued to troops assigned to clear trenches, since rifles proved unwieldly in those confined quarters. So many handguns were needed that the U.S. and other nations turned to secondary sources and obsolete weapons.

By the time the U.S. entered WWII, the carbine had been adopted for use in most of those roles and pistols were less common.

In the recent wars, the pistol is less common, more of a personal defense weapon (there is a push for some kind of "composite" PDW, something like a small machine pistol, but none has been adopted and some consider the idea a poor one.

Jim

 

[Deaf Smith]

How common is it to see handguns used in a war zone (both today and in the past 100 years)? I'm not a soldier so the only wars I've seen have been on TV or in print. From what I've gathered its pretty uncommon to see handguns used in warfare. Most soldiers aren't even issued handguns, and many rebels are lucky just to get an AK47 and enough ammo for 3 magazines.

Were they more common in WWII? Seems like they would have had more utility then in combating urban enemy occupational forces (a la French resistance).

Common and highly sought after in all wars, at least for Americans. Most other countries are control freaks (as ours is now) and handguns are sparingly issued.

Gen. Perishing WW 1 wanted all GIs to pack on the front lines.

Read "Shots Fired in Anger" by Lt. Col. John George. WW 2.

Read "With The Old Breed" by Sledge. WW 2.

Read "Brennan's War" by Matt Brennan. Vietnam.

Some, like Brennan packed 2 handgun as well as a rifle.

Deaf

 

[PabloJ]

Those have seen lots of use in special formations of WWII like Einsatzgruppen or the NKVD. Suitcases of Walther PP 7,65mm pistols along lots of ammo and vodka were needed by NKVD execution squads. Large numbers of pistols were needed because they actually wore out from use. That kind of tells you how much worse stalin was when compared to Adolf Hitler.

 

[dogrunner]

Well, as I recall, A Tennesse hillbilly by the name of York used his M/1911 as the finishing touch in capturing a couple of hundred Germans and several machineguns...........

Useful, yep, issue tho is mostly for ranking personnel and the use of privately held pieces is forbidden....tho that was not the case in the VN conflict, at least for officers. S&W N frames had a cult following and can be seen in many photo's from that time. I believe that the VC who donated the contents of his head via the SVN official met his end via Smith's M/49.

 

[Tallball]

My uncle carried one in Nam. We had hoisted a few one time and he told me about it. He said that he had seen the remains of captured Americans and had no intention of ending up that way. The last bullet was for him.

Grandpa was a forward artillery observer in WWII. He said that he was armed with "a 38" and considered it to be pretty much useless.

 

[Joshboyfutre]

When I was in Iraq I seen that used one time are medic shot a dog that was chasing him, I don't think modern warfare really allows usage of them as much now days

 

[JohnBiltz]

WWI is coming up on 100 years ago and we are not using bolt action rifles anymore. A 1911 weighs about the same as 2 magazines for a M16. For a grunt that is the question, is it worth 2 more magazines for your rifle. If you are part of a pretty good size group operating with support and supply lines the answer is probably no. If you are operating alone or in a small group then a back up weapon starts becoming more important.

 

[herrwalther]

My pistol was very useful on my deployment. Although it was never fired outside qualification. There were only two instances where it needed to come out of its holster. Pistols are seen as a sign of authority in most middle east countries, so I got more done when interacting with locals as I was seen as someone in charge. Even if I was a junior enlisted team leader.

 

[Hangingrock]

My MOS dictated a pistol we were attached to the infantry as an FO/AO team. Our first major operation during day one early on we acquired rifles. The pistol is a good supplement to the rifle.

 

[golden]

Problem with pistols

HGM22,

Most military units, at least in the U.S. depend on the M4 carbine. Recently, the U.S. Marine Corp announced that non commissioned and junior officers would be issued an M4 carbine instead of a pistol.
My brother, who is a retired army officer, considered the M-16a2 rifle as light a weapon as he wanted to use.
Most shooters cannot use a pistol effectively in a military operation, as they are outranged by carbines and rifles as well as overmatched in firepower.

Imagine a gun battle between an M-9 BERETTA or 1911 carrying U.S. soldier and somebody at 50 yards blasting away with an AK-47 type of weapon.

Special Forces like to issue them, but they are a completely different ballgame. They can also be used with sound suppressors (aka: silencers) by the various SF units.
You can also expect that these soldiers, sailors and marines in SF will have a LOT MORE TRAINING on firearms.

The military police carry them as they frequently have to act in a law enforcement role and handguns have an advantage here. However, I have to deal on a regular basis with some base security troops and the are issued handguns, M4 carbines and one M-249 machine gun. They have the option on not bothering with a handgun if they are carrying the M-249.

I have some postings by people who carried a handgun into combat, but few of them talked about actually using it.

It is harder to shoot a handgun past 25 yards and very hard to shoot one accurately at 100 yards, especially rapidly.

Some militaries have adopted the P-90 made by FN as a crew weapon for people who would have been issued a handgun in the past. They are still popular with flight crews, but there size is all important.

In the past, they were used to varying degrees. In VIETNAM, they were used by helicopter crews when they crashed and by the famous "TUNNEL RATS".

Also, I recently read, "POINTMAN", the memoirs of CHIEF James WATSON, one of the original Navy SEALS. He was issued a S&W model 15 in .38 Special instead of what the original team tried to order from S&W, the model 19, in .357 magnum. He had little use for it.
In VIETNAM, he got a CIA issued BROWNING Hi-POWER, which he liked, but again, got little use of.
He preferred a 12 gauge, pump shotgun or the STONER light machine gun with a 150 round drum.

Most of the modern military histories are like that.
The legendary tale of Sgt. YORK and his 1911 is the exception, that proves the rule.
Probably, only one or two other soldiers in the entire U.S. military, during WW I, could have done that, if that many.

If I were in the military and could carry anything I wanted, I would want to carry a handgun, a compact, concealable one under my uniform, but I would not really, expect to use it.
Oh, the reason I want a concealable handgun, is that snipers have often used a handgun in plain sight as a way to identify officers or team leaders, who they shoot first!

Jim

 

[Wil Terry]

EVERY day!!!

And so it goes...

 

[jeepnik]

All I can say are two things.

When you need one you really need one.

The M16 as originally issued really really sucks.

 

[PedalBiker]

I was in the Army Reserve for 12 years. I drove an M-60 tank, fired an M-60 machine gun, and a 105mm. I qualified Sharpshooter with M-16 and Expert with hand grenades. I never shot a pistol for Uncle Sam.

 

[TruthTellers]

The point of a pistol is a second gun when your rifle or machine gun malfunctions. There are no situations or missions where the pistol is someone's main weapon because they have MP5's and other short barrel rifles to replace the pistol.

Shotgun's see more use in the military today than pistols do. Still, the pistol has a place and when it is needed in place of a malfunctioning long gun, it needs to be as effective as possible, hence why the Army is looking at using hollow points or being able to use hollow points for the first time.

 

[Jim K]

Everyone knows about how General Patton carried handguns even after he was well away from combat. But Omar Bradley had another perspective. When a reporter asked why he didn't carry a gun, Bradley (Patton's boss at the time and commander of Allied ground forces in Europe) gave a classic answer, "Son, at the last morning report I had two million five hundred thousand men under my command; if they can't protect me from the Germans, one lousy pistol isn't going to do any good."

Jim

 

[edmo01]

Pistols as primary issued weapons?

I'm a retired USAF pilot and I was always issued a handgun as a primary weapon when going into harm's way.

However, if a pilot has to pull his weapon things have gone bad... Really bad...

Edmo

 

[gamestalker]

Two of my son's did deployments to the middle east. One went to Afghanistan, the other is currently on his second Iraq tour.

As far as weapons, both carried M4's and a 9mm sidearm.

My boy who did the Afghanistan tour had an interesting story, one that involved his sidearm. While they're convoy was on a 4 day thing, they were driving down a levy in Kandahar I think, it was heavily covered in over hanging tree's and thick brush, so the Hummer's were barely getting through. His gunner who was up in the turret, was ducking and trying to avoid getting knocked out by limbs and such. He decided to pull the 50 down to keep it from getting beat up, and while he did so, he hung his M4 up in the turret for just a moment, and as luck, or bad luck would have it, a limb managed to snag it and pull it out of the turret.

So the convoy came to a screeching, but not quick enough to stop one of the locals from grabbing it and running off with it. Everyone, and according to my son, literally everyone grabbed their primary, the M4's, and took off chasing the local into the populated area searching, and having to pay locals to tell them where the guy went. But my son had to stay behind to watch over the 6 Hummer's and gear, but he had to give up his M4 to the guy that lost his, which meant all he had was his 9mm, cause the 50 cal. was useless due to the heavy over growth.

So, as soon as everyone was out of sight, dozens of Talli loyal's gathered around and started throwing rocks, then shooting indiscriminately at the convoy. He got off some shots, but not much he could do with the heavy vegetation, other than pray no one starts with the RPG's, or start throwing grenades. And just when he thought he was going to die, the guys came back with the missing M4, and then all hell broke loose, but at least they found the M4.

GS