How popular are 9x18 Mak handguns (US)?
- Thread starter Ignition Override
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Ignition Override
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amd6547:
What if the US developed real trade relations with Cuba, and they offered huge heaps of 9x18 (or 7.62x39) ammo etc? We might not count on it being in good condition, but what an enticing possibility.
Based on things I've read about past lobbying by the US gun/ammo industry, they would probably lobby very hard to block any new imports of large ammo quantities from any country wanting to sell it cheaply, if that were the case.
TallBall:
Just like mine. Having at least one Mak or CZ (83) in .380 could be a major benefit if we ever face an import ban/high punishment tax on the lower-cost 9x18 ammo. Imagine prices for US-made ammo.
This Russian shares ammo with its Sig 232 buddy, my only other .380 Auto.
Some aspects of Glasnost combined with a little Ostpolitik can be promising for support of the Second Amendment.
What a shame that a high-profile murder in Seattle years ago provided an excuse to ban further imports of Russian military Maks, or is this true?
Dr. Rob:
The guy who sold me most of these believed that his late-brother's EG was a Bulgy. $275 with very little wear, as with his entire group.
That DA trigger is just as smooth as my new Sig 232, just a bit of a heavier pull, but not bad at all.
What if the US developed real trade relations with Cuba, and they offered huge heaps of 9x18 (or 7.62x39) ammo etc? We might not count on it being in good condition, but what an enticing possibility.
Based on things I've read about past lobbying by the US gun/ammo industry, they would probably lobby very hard to block any new imports of large ammo quantities from any country wanting to sell it cheaply, if that were the case.
TallBall:
Just like mine. Having at least one Mak or CZ (83) in .380 could be a major benefit if we ever face an import ban/high punishment tax on the lower-cost 9x18 ammo. Imagine prices for US-made ammo.
This Russian shares ammo with its Sig 232 buddy, my only other .380 Auto.
Some aspects of Glasnost combined with a little Ostpolitik can be promising for support of the Second Amendment.
What a shame that a high-profile murder in Seattle years ago provided an excuse to ban further imports of Russian military Maks, or is this true?
Dr. Rob:
The guy who sold me most of these believed that his late-brother's EG was a Bulgy. $275 with very little wear, as with his entire group.
That DA trigger is just as smooth as my new Sig 232, just a bit of a heavier pull, but not bad at all.
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amd6547
Member
That's a fine collection, Sarge.
Before Makarovs were imported, I saw my first one at a gunshow...it was also a papered Vietnam bringback. It was around 1980, and I believe it had a $2000 price tag.
My first Tokarev pistol was a bringback...pitted, mismatched, re-parkarized and dark bore. Shot like a champ, even though it looked like it was blasted from the bottom of a rice paddy.
As far as 9mm Makarov, I like the cartridge a lot. I've had the Makarov (E. German), the cz82, and the P64...still have the last two.
During the last ammo shortage, when 380 and 9X19 were virtually unavailable, I was able to order 9mm Makarov whenever I wanted any for a cheap price...shot a lot of 9mak that year.
Frankly, I've owned and shot most of the SD cartridge front runners. But I would feel well armed with my cz82 on my belt.
Before Makarovs were imported, I saw my first one at a gunshow...it was also a papered Vietnam bringback. It was around 1980, and I believe it had a $2000 price tag.
My first Tokarev pistol was a bringback...pitted, mismatched, re-parkarized and dark bore. Shot like a champ, even though it looked like it was blasted from the bottom of a rice paddy.
As far as 9mm Makarov, I like the cartridge a lot. I've had the Makarov (E. German), the cz82, and the P64...still have the last two.
During the last ammo shortage, when 380 and 9X19 were virtually unavailable, I was able to order 9mm Makarov whenever I wanted any for a cheap price...shot a lot of 9mak that year.
Frankly, I've owned and shot most of the SD cartridge front runners. But I would feel well armed with my cz82 on my belt.
Ignition Override
Member
amd6547:
When people feel secure with a CZ-82 on their belt, is it because of the gun's trigger, the round, or the magazine capacity? More than one factor?
When people feel secure with a CZ-82 on their belt, is it because of the gun's trigger, the round, or the magazine capacity? More than one factor?
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IBEWBULL
Member
Radom
We have a Polish Radom in the safe and sold the Pa64.
The Radom is more PPK size and doesn't bite me like a PPK.
I shot through 11 layers of 1/2 inch dry wall stacked.
It is accurate and there is some snappy recoil.
It is a keeper.
We have a Polish Radom in the safe and sold the Pa64.
The Radom is more PPK size and doesn't bite me like a PPK.
I shot through 11 layers of 1/2 inch dry wall stacked.
It is accurate and there is some snappy recoil.
It is a keeper.
il.bill
Member
The 'one factor' for me is that I consider the CZ82 a great handgun.
The accuracy, dependability, trigger (both DA and SA), capacity, carry options (cocked and locked or hammer down with first shot DA), and the feel of the pistol in hand all add up to a superb package. The 9x18mm Makarov round is, for me, the CZ82's weakest aspect, but it is still enough that I never feel under-gunned with it.
Ignition Override
Member
IBEWBULL: Are you talking about having kept the Radom P-83 "Wanad", which is larger than the Radom P-64?
il.bil.
With the popular features helping the CZ-82's popularity, why isn't the CZ-83 more popular? It must be the fact that it is a commercial export version.
Some tests indicate that the 9x18 Mak and .380 rounds have power which is nearly identical. Maybe there is a psychological factor at work here.
Very seasoned handgun people always seem to prefer original police/mil. over any commercial export versions.
Nothing I've read (so far) suggests that the trigger or other aspects of the 83 are inferior to the 82.
il.bil.
With the popular features helping the CZ-82's popularity, why isn't the CZ-83 more popular? It must be the fact that it is a commercial export version.
Some tests indicate that the 9x18 Mak and .380 rounds have power which is nearly identical. Maybe there is a psychological factor at work here.
Very seasoned handgun people always seem to prefer original police/mil. over any commercial export versions.
Nothing I've read (so far) suggests that the trigger or other aspects of the 83 are inferior to the 82.
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Partizanai
Member
Hard to beat.....
I have had a number of "Mak's" over the years. They are in my opinion,
like most of the "Soviet eras" weapons. They are simple, fairly well designed
and built and super reliable.
They followed the basic design of a Walther PP. How can you go wrong with
that? The East German models were actually produced in a former WW11
plant.
I am a "buy America guy" myself in many ways but, I also appreciate the quality
and value that this weapon represents. This ammo can be easily bought and
is not too costly.
I have had a number of "Mak's" over the years. They are in my opinion,
like most of the "Soviet eras" weapons. They are simple, fairly well designed
and built and super reliable.
They followed the basic design of a Walther PP. How can you go wrong with
that? The East German models were actually produced in a former WW11
plant.
I am a "buy America guy" myself in many ways but, I also appreciate the quality
and value that this weapon represents. This ammo can be easily bought and
is not too costly.
BSA1
member
How popular is the 9x18?
Gunbroker has exactly one CZ-82 with two magazines, a used military flap leather holster and 100 rds. of ammunition listed (for $599.00) and 28 P-64's.
AIM Surplus just got in a batch of P-64's in Grade1 and Grade 2 condition.
Gunbroker has exactly one CZ-82 with two magazines, a used military flap leather holster and 100 rds. of ammunition listed (for $599.00) and 28 P-64's.
AIM Surplus just got in a batch of P-64's in Grade1 and Grade 2 condition.
Partizanai
Member
How popular is the 9 X18 round....
BSA-
I believe that it is quite a popular round. Many different country's
produced many nice weapons in this caliber. I (as do many..) feel it's
superior to the .380 on several levels.
While I must admit that the 7.62 X 25 "TOK" round is my all time first
choice, this is still an excellent choice. The Russian, East German and
Bulgarian variants of the "MAK" are simply a great choice.
BSA-
I believe that it is quite a popular round. Many different country's
produced many nice weapons in this caliber. I (as do many..) feel it's
superior to the .380 on several levels.
While I must admit that the 7.62 X 25 "TOK" round is my all time first
choice, this is still an excellent choice. The Russian, East German and
Bulgarian variants of the "MAK" are simply a great choice.
lsudave
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It's a nice round, with good handguns. It's not a native US (or Western Europe) design, and you don't see designs currently being marketed, so that's why you don't see rows of Makarovs in local gun stores.
However, you do see ammo being made; Russian and Ukraine import (Red Army, the Bear lines, Tulammo, Wolf etc) in steel, and brass from GECO, Fiocchi, and American Eagle; and Hornady makes SD rounds. The prices are about the same as 9x19 for these.
That's pretty impressive, and a good indication that manufacturers consider 9x18 to be alive and well.
The draw, along with the lower prices, is that the guns are small, but overbuilt a little for the round. They are mostly steel framed (except the PA 63), so they are a little heavier than you'd expect, but still good for carry, and very comfortable to shoot.
However, you do see ammo being made; Russian and Ukraine import (Red Army, the Bear lines, Tulammo, Wolf etc) in steel, and brass from GECO, Fiocchi, and American Eagle; and Hornady makes SD rounds. The prices are about the same as 9x19 for these.
That's pretty impressive, and a good indication that manufacturers consider 9x18 to be alive and well.
The draw, along with the lower prices, is that the guns are small, but overbuilt a little for the round. They are mostly steel framed (except the PA 63), so they are a little heavier than you'd expect, but still good for carry, and very comfortable to shoot.
You can buy bullets specifically for the Makarov (Hornady XTP for one) and Starline sells the brass. It may not be the most popular round out there, but several companies believe they can make a profit selling components and that speaks to it not being a "dead" round.
lsudave
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Do you reload for it? If so, what are other options for bullets- any FMJ? And about how much for the Hornady bullets?
During the shortage, I bought several boxes of Fiocchi and GECO, which are tucked away while I go through my cheaper steel rounds. I've got maybe 500 rds of brass here, and thought about saving that and reloading, especially if the steel prices ride up much more, or we clamp down on Russian imports more.
I remember the way 7.62x25 dried up, and suddenly people were caught having to buy PPU or similar for a lot more, if they wanted to shoot.
lsudave
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A whole lot of these guns were imported, and the dealers sell out fairly quickly. The fact that you don't see a bunch on gunbroker means, simply, that people who get them, keep them.
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