How to deal with an armed robbery.

[shafter]

You're exposed anyway.

It's still a Transitional Space no matter where you park.

You prioritize getting out of the transitional space as fast as you can.

I prioritize being able to see trouble coming. It is what it is.

Have you ever actually had to deal with a criminal assailant?

If you are going to park somewhere to eat some takeout then parking way in the back with lots of open space makes good sense. However, if your goal is to go inside the business then you're going to not only have to cross all that open space yourself, but also cross the same areas you want to avoid only you'll be doing it on foot instead of your vehicle and any potential threats will have had more time to notice you and plan their attack.

 

[AK Hunter]

A hand full of cash is a terrible thing to loose your life or take someone's life for. If some bad guy wants my cash (I carry my cash in a separate leather money clip) I will pull it out & toss it away from me, then go the other direction.
If he wants more than that he will get a deadly force show.

 

[WrongHanded]

The wife might say, “park over there next to that van, it’s close, I don’t want to walk”. Then you choose between the van as a possible threat and having a half hour discussion on making parking choices based on as she puts it “a 1:1,000,000 chance”. “ I just want to go in and get my groceries, not have a tactical parking spot lesson.” Okay so maybe my wife ain’t that bad. But you get the point.

Sometimes you park where there’s a spot.

Just reminder her that if she ever does get kidnapped, it'll be a 1:1 reality. Not some statistic she found online. And also, based on 2019 data, about 379 per 100,000 people were victims of violent crime. Which is 1 in 264 people.

 

[old lady new shooter]

There was recently a few armed robberies in the town I frequent. The guy comes up to you in a parking lot as you are exiting your car and demands your wallet / purse and then leaves. In one instance he stole the victims car.

So, if that happens to me, and with my wife and kid present, should I attempt to draw my gun and shoot the attacker? Or give them my wallet and her purse?

I used to think draw and shoot would be the correct answer. But after reading this forum, about all the possible legal consequences, I’m thinking that giving up my wallet is the correct answer. And only if he becomes more violent, say, in trying to kidnap my wife or child, then should I commit to self defense via firearm.
I do try to be situationally aware of this sort of thing, but I think it could still happen.

Some people carry a dummy wallet or purse with maybe $40 in it for such situations. The advice I've seen is to throw it on the ground as far away from you as you can, then run in the opposite direction, hopefully into a store or other business.

I know you write that BG takes the wallet or purse and goes away. Sometimes that's probably what happens. Other times BG may have further plans.

IAC your scenario of your wife and child being with you is more complicated. It's great that you're thinking about this when you have the luxury of time! I suggest you devise and practice a workable plan, or even better, several plans for different versions of the scenario. Like, which one of you carries the child? If you carry the child will that enable your wife to be able to keep up with your pace for running away? Can you carry the child in one arm and shoot accurately with the other hand if needed? I have seen at least one discussion where the couple agreed counter-instinctually that the wife would be the defender because the husband can carry both kids and still run pretty fast, also if one of them has to G-d forbid go down, better for the kids that the husband survives because he has greater earning power. What a depressing topic, but a lot better to game it out ahead of time and make whatever decision works best for you, than to be surprised and not have time to think about what to do.

 

[shafter]

Just reminder her that if she ever does get kidnapped, it'll be a 1:1 reality. Not some statistic she found online. And also, based on 2019 data, about 379 per 100,000 people were victims of violent crime. Which is 1 in 264 people.

While those numbers may be true, they don't account for the fact that a significant amount of crime is criminal on criminal and they aren't the least bit shy about calling the police to make a report. Another significant amount would be someone you already know as a perpetrator.

Being aware and prepared is always a good idea but the weekly trip the grocery store isn't nearly as fraught with peril as some would believe.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I suppose you could drop them off at the door, go park, then later pick them up at the door.

I really like this idea!

 

[old lady new shooter]

We carry should we NEED to employ such force. But we work to AVOID that need wherever possible.

^^^^^
This.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Still a lot of heat around minutia going on.

The Devil may indeed be in the details, but it's the totality of circumstances which determine threat level. Not seeing the forest for all the trees is another useful adage.


"Don't park next to a van!"

Interesting thing about parking lots...people and vehicles are constantly coming and going. There is no guarantee that the vehicles/spaces next to your own won't be replaced by vans while you're inside shopping. What do you do then, wait 2 hours for their owners to finish their business and drive away?

There are, in reality, few "absolutes" about ensuring personal safety, but there ARE a lot of guidelines. Knowing the guidelines and understanding the basis for them will help us FAR better than knowing any number of specifics. This understanding will aid us in adapting to a wide range of circumstances and making the wisest decisions. They help us "balance" our actions to fit existing circumstances.

Parking in well lit areas is an example of a guideline. Why park in well lit areas? It's not only easier for you to see what you're doing, it's also easier to see if suspicious persons/activities are going on in the area and it's harder for shady activities to be hidden from other witnesses.

Parking closer to the business/building is another guideline. Why? It's easier to spot your vehicle when leaving the store, it's easier and quicker to get to and from the store and vehicle, it's closer to where other people are and thus more likely to be observed by other witnesses.

Parking away from shifty looking people, vehicles, or activities is another guideline. Why? Those are areas where potentially dangerous activities might take place.

BUT...

What if shifty looking people, vehicles, or activities are centered around the well lit area of the parking lot? What then?

What if the shifty looking people, vehicles, or activities are closer to the business in the parking lot?

What if the well lighted area you were parked in when you left your vehicle is now significantly darker because the light burned out in that spot?

In the hour you were in the store, maybe night fell or weather conditions took a turn for the worse and now the spot you parked in, perfectly suitable when you arrived, is no longer a place you would have parked now.


Risk management is a never ending process which is continually guided by risk assessment. It is ever changing and requires us to be adaptable. And while it's true that we all do it (risk management) to some extent or another, many people fail to consciously realize its fluid nature and believe risks are adequately addressed by "absolutes".

That is a fallacy.


So, if you find yourself getting "rankled" by this or that posting here, or perhaps sliding into a paradigm that this or that action is "required", take a step back and ask yourself what's really important to take from all these postings.

 

[WrongHanded]

While those numbers may be true, they don't account for the fact that a significant amount of crime is criminal on criminal and they aren't the least bit shy about calling the police to make a report. Another significant amount would be someone you already know as a perpetrator.

Being aware and prepared is always a good idea but the weekly trip the grocery store isn't nearly as fraught with peril as some would believe.

True.

The numbers also don't reflects that some people may be victimized multiple times, particularly if the live a lifestyle adjacent to criminal activity, or on the fringes of society. But if the OP wants his wife to take their safety a little more seriously, he doesn't need to tell her all that.

 

[The Night Rider]

Being aware and prepared is always a good idea but the weekly trip the grocery store isn't nearly as fraught with peril as some would believe.

Then I'm probably OK walking across the parking lot

 

[The Night Rider]

 

[Kleanbore]

Excellent advice from Massad.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Still a lot of heat around minutia going on.

The Devil may indeed be in the details, but it's the totality of circumstances which determine threat level. Not seeing the forest for all the trees is another useful adage.

"Don't park next to a van!"

Interesting thing about parking lots...people and vehicles are constantly coming and going. There is no guarantee that the vehicles/spaces next to your own won't be replaced by vans while you're inside shopping. What do you do then, wait 2 hours for their owners to finish their business and drive away?

Whenever possible, I park at the end of a row, such that no other vehicle can park next to the driver side of my car. The good thing about this technique is that it DOESN'T allow for someone you don't want to be parked next to to park next to your driver side. Obviously however, this only works for people driving alone.

There are, in reality, few "absolutes" about ensuring personal safety, but there ARE a lot of guidelines. Knowing the guidelines and understanding the basis for them will help us FAR better than knowing any number of specifics. This understanding will aid us in adapting to a wide range of circumstances and making the wisest decisions. They help us "balance" our actions to fit existing circumstances.

Parking in well lit areas is an example of a guideline. Why park in well lit areas? It's not only easier for you to see what you're doing, it's also easier to see if suspicious persons/activities are going on in the area and it's harder for shady activities to be hidden from other witnesses.

Parking closer to the business/building is another guideline. Why? It's easier to spot your vehicle when leaving the store, it's easier and quicker to get to and from the store and vehicle, it's closer to where other people are and thus more likely to be observed by other witnesses.

Parking away from shifty looking people, vehicles, or activities is another guideline. Why? Those are areas where potentially dangerous activities might take place.

BUT...

What if shifty looking people, vehicles, or activities are centered around the well lit area of the parking lot? What then?

What if the shifty looking people, vehicles, or activities are closer to the business in the parking lot?

If I see shifty looking people anywhere in the parking lot, but especially if they are close to the business, I just keep on driving. I can go to that store another time. Obviously this wouldn't work if it's your doctor appointment, but just to go shopping it's not worth the risk to me. This might be overkill where I live now, but I didn't leave my Los Angeles experience behind when I thankfully moved away.

What if the well lighted area you were parked in when you left your vehicle is now significantly darker because the light burned out in that spot?

In the hour you were in the store, maybe night fell or weather conditions took a turn for the worse and now the spot you parked in, perfectly suitable when you arrived, is no longer a place you would have parked now.

Doesn't hurt to carry a flashlight.

Risk management is a never ending process which is continually guided by risk assessment. It is ever changing and requires us to be adaptable. And while it's true that we all do it (risk management) to some extent or another, many people fail to consciously realize its fluid nature and believe risks are adequately addressed by "absolutes".

That is a fallacy.

So, if you find yourself getting "rankled" by this or that posting here, or perhaps sliding into a paradigm that this or that action is "required", take a step back and ask yourself what's really important to take from all these postings.

 

[old lady new shooter]

True.

The numbers also don't reflects that some people may be victimized multiple times, particularly if the live a lifestyle adjacent to criminal activity, or on the fringes of society. But if the OP wants his wife to take their safety a little more seriously, he doesn't need to tell her all that.

Given his wife's mindset, so far I think the best advice was the one to drop off wife and child at the door of the store, go park the car, walk back to meet them inside, and when they are finished have them wait inside the door while he walks back to fetch the car to pick them up.

 

[Kleanbore]

If I see shifty looking people anywhere in the parking lot, but especially if they are close to the business, I just keep on driving

That is Step One.

 

[WrongHanded]

Given his wife's mindset, so far I think the best advice was the one to drop off wife and child at the door of the store, go park the car, walk back to meet them inside, and when they are finished have them wait inside the door while he walks back to fetch the car to pick them up.

You're right. Hopefully he can always be there to do so.

 

[old lady new shooter]

You're right. Hopefully he can always be there to do so.

 

[Kleanbore]

The guy comes up to you in a parking lot as you are exiting your car and demands your wallet / purse and then leaves. In one instance he stole the victims car.

These days, I think the car-jacking threat is more likely.

I do not think the response would be any different.

 

[Bazoo]

In this instance, there was 4-5 of these seemingly by the same person and they were primarily robberies. Only once did he take a car. I think most or all were seemingly at night in darker parking lots. The mall and an indoor flea market sorta thing.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Great video, thanks for posting.

 

[Officers'Wife]

The bottom line is we all do our own risk assessment and act accordingly. Personally, I am not going to act like I am transporting supplies across enemy territory every time I go into town. Part of the joys of living in a small town is that you have a base knowledge of who the troublemakers really are as well as the degree of trustworthiness of the rest of the population. When I am walking across the parking lot after dark I tend to find a place that is as well lighted as possible. Walking to and from my vehicle my finger is on the horn button of my car fob under the theory that an unexpected car horn is going to distract a would-be attacker enough to give me the chance to either get away or bring my handgun into play.

The OP's wife would probably prefer to ignore what she sees as a very low chance of being bothered while she is shopping. But then, I have yet to meet a woman that has not had some degree of unwanted attention at some point in her life and has learned to deal with it.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Walking to and from my vehicle my finger is on the horn button of my car fob under the theory that an unexpected car horn is going to distract a would-be attacker enough to give me the chance to either get away or bring my handgun into play.

Good idea, I'm going to incorporate this. Thanks.

 

[citizenconn]

I don't have any kids, just a wife of 25+ years. We live just north of Houston and both have to drive into Houston for work. I have gone over the need for situational awareness with her time and time again. I also don't let her pump her own gas, go to the grocery store (we have most of our groceries delivered) or answer the door at the house under any circumstances without being armed and knowing exactly who is at the door.

This probably sounds crazy to everyone here, but it has kept us safe so far. Knock on wood. She has been instructed repeatedly that her car is her best weapon against any two legged threats, of which there are many in Houston.

If we go out in public, I am on high alert all the time and do not frequent many establishments that prohibit concealed carry. If we do have to go to one of those places I am armed with at least one or more very sharp knives and the best non lethal self defense options I can find.

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Stay frosty, my friends.

 

[Speedo66]

As a retired LEO I would hesitate to give up my wallet, which contains my retirement shield. I'm sure other active and retired officers would feel the same.

Criminals seem to have a hatred for LE and I feel being shot is a real issue. Carrying my shield separately is a possibility, but being patted down would reveal it anyway.

I'm not a quick draw artist, especially since I pocket carry. I've been pretty good at verbally de-escalating situations and my situational awareness is also pretty good, so I guess I would have to rely on those.

I've also moved my gun from pants pocket to jacket pocket, with hand on it, when my Spidey sense picked up on something.

 

[Speedo66]

A good starting point in considering the OP’s proposition is to understand the law of the state in which the offense occurs. I am in PA so my actions are governed by the following section of PA law.

(a) The use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.
(2) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat;

Those are the narrowest definitions I've ever seen, they don't even include preventing those acts on others.