How young can one be to own an SBR?

[Sam1911]

I believe you need an FFL in order to get an SB anything.

Common enough misconception. SBRs or SBSs are just like machine guns or any other Title II item. You don't need any kind of license to buy, own, or even make them. Just fill out your Form 1 or Form 4, get approved, and you're good to go.

(No, you can't make a machine gun without an FFL and SOT2, but that's because of the registry being closed -- prior to 1986 you could.)

 

[GoingQuiet]

What does that have to do with anything discussed in this thread?

The point is that NFA is entirely possible under 21 - if built via Form 1 or purchased on Form 4 that is NOT from an FFL.

As the ATF letter states - the NFA is silent on age restrictions. The issue at hand here is that GCA and NFA both regulate dealer sales so there is no provision for an under 21 sale from FFL but there is an entirely open area because the same federal law that regulates FFL's do not restrict individual sales.

 

[GoingQuiet]

Take that to court and see how that works out for you!

I don't have to take it to court. Give me someone that is 18 that wants to do a Form 1 and so long as the form is done right, it will be approved by the appropriate examiner - so long as there are no state laws contrary to the application approval.

There are plenty of over 18 under 21 form 1's and form 4's that are legal and approved, without a court order.

 

[scythefwd]

Sam1911 - I'm not sure, but I believe that you can enact parts of a will premortim.

 

[Sam1911]

Sam1911 - I'm not sure, but I believe that you can enact parts of a will premortim.

I don't know if some parts can be or not. However, the provisions of GCA'68 which allow an heir to take possession of a firearm from the estate of someone who left a gun to them, without transferring it on a 4473, aren't applicable unless there's a decedent/heir -- death/disbursement situation. So I'd assume that the Form 5 transfer of an NFA weapon is similar.

I know some of our lawyer members have spoken on this before. I'll have to try to dig something up. (Har! Har!)

 

[The Law]

I don't know if some parts can be or not. However, the provisions of GCA'68 which allow an heir to take possession of a firearm from the estate of someone who left a gun to them, without transferring it on a 4473, aren't applicable unless there's a decedent/heir -- death/disbursement situation. So I'd assume that the Form 5 transfer of an NFA weapon is similar.

I know some of our lawyer members have spoken on this before. I'll have to try to dig something up. (Har! Har!)

I suspect this issue boils down to state law and how a state defines a "decedent/heir." If you meet the criteria for a "decedent/heir" in your state, you can qualify for a Form 5 transfer.

But I'm in agreement with you. My money is on just about every state requiring death or at least some kind of severe incapacitation in order for someone to be adjudged a "decedent/heir."

Your local laws may vary.

 

[mortablunt]

That's very interesting about the form 1 stuff. I think I might get myself an SBR one of these days.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

GoingQuiet...I will happily take your word for it and it makes sense, logically, to follow the thread you offer. I am going to continue to pester the NFA branch about it simply because I find it incredibly stupid that the people charged with administering the rules don't seem to be able to define them. (I also tilt at windmills on my weekends.)

If the OP's young'un has any luck with the process, I would be happy to hear about it.

 

[Sam1911]

I am going to continue to pester the NFA branch about it simply because I find it incredibly stupid that the people charged with administering the rules don't seem to be able to define them. (I also tilt at windmills on my weekends.)

If you catch two agents giving the same answer -- or one agent giving the same answer twice in a row -- I think you get a free pizza or something. It's kind of like when they forget to give you a receipt at Wendy's.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I believe you need an FFL in order to get an SB anything.

Nope, you just need to have $200, some spare time, and live in a state that does not otherwise preclude their ownership.

You file a Form 1, which is basically an application to "make" an NFA firearm. You take a factory made rifle and you become the manufacturer, turning it into a new NFA firearm that you made.

No FFL needed and since you are not making them to resell you don't need any kind of manufacturer FFL either.

If you catch two agents giving the same answer -- or one agent giving the same answer twice in a row -- I think you get a free pizza or something.

And I don't believe anyone has ever won one.

 

[Bubbles]

And I don't believe anyone has ever won one.

The odds go up considerably depending on which branch is answering the question. TTB in particular is very consistent, NFA not so much...

 

[mortablunt]

^ The ATF seemingly loves to troll with its rules. If an ATF person gives you advice on a question and you follow it and it turns out that their advice was incorrect, thus making you face criminal charges, you don't get any protection by claiming that you were told it was legal.

 

[Sam1911]

If an ATF person gives you advice on a question and you follow it and it turns out that their advice was incorrect, thus making you face criminal charges, you don't get any protection by claiming that you were told it was legal.

One of the reasons we always reccommend you pose your questions in writing, and get a response, in writing. It may not be the correct answer, but it is the correct answer for you and if they change their minds later, you have a paper trail to show in your own defense.