How's the accuracy on your Italian SAA clone?

[Mn Fats]

Has anyone, maybe an SASS shooter, noticed a difference in accuracy with a Pietta, Uberti, EMF, Traditions etc Italian repros vs an American SAA like a New Vaquero or a Standard mfg or a Colt?

I know they're not target guns with the fixed sights and all, just curious if anyone's noticed a difference in accuracy, maybe due to the lower cost manufacturing or whatnot.

 

[ontarget]

3.5 inch Birdshead Uberti in 45 Colt.


4 5/8 Uberti El Patron 45 Colt


Both could use a bit of filing on the front site but I haven't settled on a load for either one yet so I will hold off for now.
I have a 5.5 inch 357 Uberti El Patron that shoots about the same size group but closer to center.

 

[troy fairweather]

I've read many times the uberti shoot very well.

 

[skfullen]

I have mostly Uberti, and a Pietta, or two. I prefer Uberti for fit-and-finish, function, and accuracy. That said, there ain't nothing wrong with a Pietta.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I have four 2nd Gen Colts, all chambered for 45 Colt, One 2nd Gen New Frontier, also chambered for 45 Colt, and two 1st Gen Bisleys, both chambered for 38-40.

This pair of 2nd Gens get fired the most, they are my CAS Main Match pistols.






I only have one Uberti Cattleman these days, this one is also chambered for 45 Colt. I have not fired this Uberti for quite a few years, but I can tell you that the Colt with the 4 3/4" barrel is the most accurate of the three. Sorry, I have no photos of targets to back that up, I just rack up fewer misses at CAS matches with the stubby barreled Colt than with the 7 1/2" barreled one.

 

[Slamfire]

The greatest problem I can fore see is chamber mouth diameters. My first 45 L Colt was a S&W M25. Beautiful pistol but the thing had 0.456" inch chamber mouths. At the time, I did not have a source of 0.454" commercial cast, what were available were 0.452" 250-255 lead bullets. Those bullets shot poorly and leaded in the barrel. It was not until 1989 that S&W changed the ball throat diameters on the 45 L Colt pistols, and it may have been on this production run:








I called S&W and talked with a very knowledgeable representative, and these are my phone notes:

25 March 1991 Talk with Doug Brassard

I asked Doug about the chamber dimensions that were allowable for the 45 Colt. This was in reference to a discussion I had with Lee Precision about their carbide crimp die sizing all the 45 Colt cases with .454 diameter bullets. Doug said that Smith and Wesson belongs to SAAMMI and receives their specifications. Only American ammo and gun manufacturers belong to SAAMMI. In fact PMC once asked him to send them all of his SAAMMI specification books. He told them to go join SAAMMI. Anyway, SAAMMI allows a rear diameter of .4862 nominal plus .004 and .4806 plus .004 for front of the 45 Colt chamber. When I asked him about the 45 Colt ball chamber throat diameters he said that they used to be .4545 to .4565 but now they were .452 . Smith and Wesson has its own standards for the barrel dimensions for the 45 Colt and they are : one turn in 20, 5 groove, lands .444 -0.0 + .0012, groove .451 - 0.0 + .0017. For the 45 ACP it is a 6 groove barrel, 1 turn in 15 inches, lands of .443 -0.0 +.0012 and grooves of .450 -0.0 and +.0017. Interestingly enough the SAAMMI specifications for 45 ACP lead bullets and jacketed bullets are different. Jacketed specs are .452 -.003 and lead bullets .453 -.003.

I have read read that Colt uses 0.458" chamber mouths on their Colt SAA's. No solid cast bullet is going to shoot well in that. Maybe hollow base bullets, but I don't buy swaged hollow base bullets. I find 0.456 chamber mouths an annoyance, the pistol will shoot acceptably if you find 0.454 diameter lead bullets, but it makes no sense to have chamber mouths of 0.456 and barrel grooves of 0.451. I do recommend, when buying a 45 L Colt, take a FMJ bullet of 0.452 diameter and drop it into the cylinder of the gun you are interested in. If there is wobble in the chamber mouths, consider if you want it. Pin gauges are better.

 

[Stefan A]

My Uberti .45LC 7.5” shoots quite high. I also have no targets to show. But if I aim at the bottom of a 12” steel target, I can get it close to center.

 

[Slamfire]

My Uberti .45LC 7.5” shoots quite high. I also have no targets to show. But if I aim at the bottom of a 12” steel target, I can get it close to center.

That's going to be hard to fix. You need a taller front sight. The pistol should have come with a tall front sight that can be filed down to shoot to point of aim, but few do. I continually find black powder weapons, and the occasional modern version, where the sights have no relationship to point of impact. Blackpowder sights are frequented canted to much that I have to hold off the target by feet! This makes me wonder if marksmanship skills are so bad, in the general population, that factories don't have to produce a pistol that shoots to point of aim.

When I get a fixed sight pistol to shoot to point of aim, and frequently it takes work to do so, it becomes a keeper.

 

[doubleh]

I have a Gaucho and a Taylor&Company, Brazilian and Italian clones. Both are pretty good but not as good as my Ruger BlackHawks and Super BlackHawks. I think it is more the sights than the quality of the different guns. The Ruger sights are superior to the clones.

 

[CraigC]

This is pretty typical for five shots at 25yds.

 

[Mn Fats]

3.5 inch Birdshead Uberti in 45 Colt.
View attachment 1069963

4 5/8 Uberti El Patron 45 Colt
View attachment 1069964

Both could use a bit of filing on the front site but I haven't settled on a load for either one yet so I will hold off for now.
I have a 5.5 inch 357 Uberti El Patron that shoots about the same size group but closer to center.

Nice groups. What distance are you shooting at? The 5.5" El Patron is what I've been looking at. Then I think, 4.75 inch looks pretty sweet with the ejector the same length as the barrel.

This is pretty typical for five shots at 25yds.

View attachment 1070076

Nice groups. Which model is that? Your thumb is a little blackened, are you shootin BP loads?

 

[Mn Fats]

Good info @Slamfire, I appreciate that. I may commit a little blasphemy and get a 357.

 

[ontarget]

Nice groups. What distance are you shooting at? The 5.5" El Patron is what I've been looking at. Then I think, 4.75 inch looks pretty sweet with the ejector the same length as the barrel

Both were 1 handed at about 15 yards. These guns really do shoot well. I highly recommend them to anyone who wants to get in to a Single Action.

 

[Mn Fats]

Both were 1 handed at about 15 yards. These guns really do shoot well. I highly recommend them to anyone who wants to get in to a Single Action.

I sold my Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk, which was really stupid of me. I'm looking to get back into Single Actions and always wanted something closer in size to the Colt SAA, without paying the Colt price

 

[CraigC]

Nice groups. Which model is that? Your thumb is a little blackened, are you shootin BP loads?

It's a Cimarron .44Spl. I was doing a lot of shooting that day and I rest my left thumb on the recoil shield. It tends to get a little sooty.

 

[ontarget]

I sold my Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk, which was really stupid of me. I'm looking to get back into Single Actions and always wanted something closer in size to the Colt SAA, without paying the Colt price

Give the Uberti a try. Get the El Patron if possible. They are a bit more refined and slicked up from the factory than the standard Cattleman ii model.

 

[NeroM]

Have a Uberti Bisley and a Ruger Bisley Vaquero - both in 357 Mag - hard to make any comparative evaluations when the sample size is one of each. Rarely shoot paper, however often shoot on edge clay birds in my backyard range - 25 steps from edge of patio. Break clay birds about equally with these two, perhaps a slight edge to the Ruger, as I have shot it a lot longer than the Uberti. Both have preferred loads and BOTH are better than this shooter.
Also have an Uberti SAA clone in 44 Mag - with 260 gr. LBT bullet at 1050 fps does very well busting clay birds - again more accurate than the pistolero.

 

[bannockburn]

I have an older Ruger Vaquero and a Beretta Stampede in .45 Colt. They're both very well made and finished and fairly accurate with a slight edge going to the Vaquero.

 

[Mn Fats]

They're both very well made and finished and fairly accurate with a slight edge going to the Vaquero.

I believe the Stampede and Vaqueros have transfer bars? Which I'd like to stay away from. I've looked into to the New Vaquero because I trust Ruger and thier customer service. But I'm seeing new ones on Gunbroker pushing (or over) the $1000 mark. Buy once cry once, but I can't justify that price for a New Vaquero. Maybe used? But even then they're about $900 in my area. Plus the one I've handled never really "felt" like an original Colt SAA.

I plan to go with the Italian SAA. The many models from Uberti and Pietta, Cimarron and Taylor's are enough to make your head spin.

 

[BC17A]

My Pietta 7th Cavalry can hold its own. On good days I can hit 3" spinner plates four out of six shots out to 30 yards, supported.

 

[BRatigan]

My El Patron 4.75 Inches in 357 Mag shoots a ragged hole at 7 and 15 yards. I'm happy with that and I have 5 different loads that are equally accurate. What's not to love.

 

[mavracer]

I've had really good luck with Uberti sixguns.
My 7 1/2" 38/40 Bisley is one of the most accurate handguns I own.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I believe the Stampede and Vaqueros have transfer bars? Which I'd like to stay away from. I've looked into to the New Vaquero because I trust Ruger and thier customer service. But I'm seeing new ones on Gunbroker pushing (or over) the $1000 mark. Buy once cry once, but I can't justify that price for a New Vaquero. Maybe used? But even then they're about $900 in my area. Plus the one I've handled never really "felt" like an original Colt SAA.

I plan to go with the Italian SAA. The many models from Uberti and Pietta, Cimarron and Taylor's are enough to make your head spin.

I’ve been shooting Ruger New Vaqueros for 12 years in cowboy action shooting. They are great but they do have a different feel from a Colt pattern revolver. If you want a revolver than can safely be carried fully loaded, I think Ruger has the best system. They’ve made them since 1973, after all.

All of the current Italian Colt clones are made by Uberti and Pietta. Cimarron, Taylor’s, EMF et al are importers.

I’ve always preferred the Pietta 1873 revolvers to Uberti. When Uberti introduced their Cattleman 2 passive safety some shooters turned up their noses. I’ve known if some shooters who had issues with them (all fixed later) and some shooters who had no problems.

Uberti and Pietta make (or made) some 1873 revolvers with a transfer bar ignition. I don’t care for those but again some folks use and like them.

 

[Tallball]

My Rugers have better practical accuracy due to their larger (adjustable) sights.

I have one Uberti. I like it a lot. It's an inexpensive model, but the fit and finish are very nice and the action is excellent.

It's as accurate as any good fixed-sight revolver with a four or five inch barrel... meaning significantly more accurate than I am.

Cimarron Model P in 357 magnum

• Tallball
• Apr 24, 2021

 

[RealGun]

Nice groups. What distance are you shooting at? The 5.5" El Patron is what I've been looking at. Then I think, 4.75 inch looks pretty sweet with the ejector the same length as the barrel.

Nice groups. Which model is that? Your thumb is a little blackened, are you shootin BP loads?

My 5.5" El Patron shoots high with 250 grain bullets, so I switched to 200 grain and also allow less view of the front sight. 6 o'clock hold helps too and is pretty common for these guns. My Pietta GW II shoots closer to POA.

p.s. My El Patron has a lighter trigger than my Vaquero with polished action, so that is an accuracy consideration too.