HP vs RN Powder

[Basic261]

Hi, I'm new to reloading. I have Berry RN 9mm bullets and Bullseye powder. When I go to the Alliant Powder site to get load data, it's only showing me HP. Does it matter if the bullet is a HP or a RN I know the OAL will be different but looking for Load Data for RN using Alliant Bullseye for 9mm

 

[labnoti]

The HP is longer than the same weight RN or FP, so given the same OAL, the HP will create higher pressure as it leaves less room in the case (the "combustion chamber" so to speak, so it's like a "higher compression" cylinder). If you have HP data, you could use that for FP and RN at the same OAL but expect lower pressure and lower velocity. You might be able to seat the FP or RN bullet at a shorter OAL so that the base of the bullet sits at the same place as the HP with the OAL for the data. Just subtract the difference in bullet length from the published OAL for the HP load -- however, if the bullet is too short the case mouth might come up onto the ogive, or it could just come past a cannalure or crimp groove if it has one (I know Berry's do not). While there is no reason not to use the HP data for powder mass and OAL with FP and RN bullets and just shoot at lower pressure and velocity, you could also try to add a little powder to bring the peak pressure back up. I wouldn't do this and exceed the HP data's maximum load without calculating it in Quick Load. With a bulky slow powder where you're loading 12 or even 20 grains of powder, it could be worth pursuing because the difference might be more than 1 grain. With a fast powder like Bullseye, the difference is probably about 0.1 grain and you won't be able to measure the difference practically anyway. With Bullseye, it would be best to just use the HP data.

 

[gunlaw]

Bullet weight is more important than the bullet type as far as powder is concerned. If the bullet weight is the same you are ok with that data on both bullet types. As always gradually work up your loads for safety and to find a consistent and reliable load for your firearm. If the bullet material changes ie cast, jacketed might want to do additional research to confirm your load.

 

[edwardware]

@labnoti hit it. The length of a HP includes some air, so it's longer for the same weight, starts with a smaller chamber, therefore higher pressure. If you peruse your data you'll see this effect; you'll also find that some HP data goes hotter because people tend to want to push HPs as fast as possible.

Since you want to push a plated (soft) RN, grab the HP Starting load, and go from there. Note Berry's guidance on max velocity for plated bullets.

 

[Basic261]

Ok Thanks for the replies. I've screen shot the Bullseyes data. I have a 124gr Berry RN. So I can use this load data (in red box)?

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=1&cartridge=23

 

[Steve C]

You can use data for HP bullets for FMJ and other bullets of the same weight and size. The single load shown by Alliant for 124gr Speer GD HP bullet is a Maximum load. When data shows only one load it will always be the maximum load. It is up to the reloader to reduce this load by 10% and work up looking for pressure signs regardless of the bullet type used. The work up is proper reloading technique taught to every hand loader in the manuals, instructional books and competent instructors to produce accurate and safe reloads.

 

[Basic261]

@Steve C Thank you for this information.

 

[fxvr5]

Basic261, which specific bullet(s) weight are you using?

Thanks.

 

[Basic261]

@fxvr5

124gr Berry RN

https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-9mm-356-124gr-rn

 

[fxvr5]

124gr Berry RN

https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-9mm-356-124gr-rn

Thank you.

Labnoti and anyone who agrees with them on bullet lengths (edwardware) is wrong. Many round nose bullets (at least in 9mm bullets) are longer than HP bullets.

Bullet lengths:
Berry 124 RN (flat base) = .587"
Berry 124 HP (hybrid HP) = .540"
Berry 124 Target HP = . 560"

Hornady 124 RN FMJ = .590"
Hornady 124 JHP (XTP) = .573"

Sierra 125 RN FMJ = .578"
Sierra 125 JHP = .546"

Speer 124 RN TMJ = .605"
Speer 124 GDHP = .566"

You can base your calculations on these bullet lengths.

My advice is to ask people for evidence on any claims they make. Some of the self-proclaimed experts on this forum don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Basic261]

I received an email from Alliant.

>>>
The load data we have listed, as you have observed, is for the Speer Gold Dot bullet. This bullet has about 20 times the copper plating on it as your thin plated Berry bullet. So, no, the data is NOT to be used for your Berry bullet.

Alliant has no tested load data for the Berry bullet line. Load data is developed for and specific to the bullet, not the propellant.

We suggest that you contact the folks at Berry for any possible load data. <<<<

I have also contacted Berry

 

[Pat Riot]

Not quite the same, but I was recently convinced to buy Alliant “Sport Pistol” powder. Two of the guys where I buy reloading components told me it’s great for 9mm, .38, .357, .45 ACP and .45 Colt and “a couple of other rounds.”

I bought it.

It turns out the load listing on the Alliant site is very limited. Especially in .38 and .357 but also 9mm and there was no load data for .45 or any “couple of other rounds”. I was a little miffed these guys told me how great and versatile this powder was but the data showed otherwise.

I told them about it and they were surprised when they brought up the website. It seems Alliant reduced the amount of data they once posted.

Anyway, if I were you I would go buy a couple of reloading manuals and see what info you can glean from them for Bullseye powder. I can assure you there’s a heck of a lot more info than Alliant has on their site.

Look for loads for TMJ (total metal jacket) bullets. This should be a bit closer than FMY which has an open jacket at the base.

 

[fxvr5]

Not quite the same, but I was recently convinced to buy Alliant “Sport Pistol” powder. Two of the guys where I buy reloading components told me it’s great for 9mm, .38, .357, .45 ACP and .45 Colt and “a couple of other rounds.”

I bought it.

It turns out the load listing on the Alliant site is very limited. Especially in .38 and .357 but also 9mm and there was no load data for .45 or any “couple of other rounds”. I was a little miffed these guys told me how great and versatile this powder was but the data showed otherwise.

Try the website again. There's lots of data. Like 19 loads for 9mm, and they also have 9mm +P. And 17 loads for 45 Auto, also data for 45 Auto +P.
http://alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=42

 

[Outlaw75]

You can always load a plated bullet like your RN using the data for a LRN (lead round nose). Doesn't look like that will help in this case since Alliant seems to not have any LRN load data for Bullseye, but it is something to remember in future.

 

[fxvr5]

You can always load a plated bullet like your RN using the data for a LRN (lead round nose). Doesn't look like that will help in this case since Alliant seems to not have any LRN load data for Bullseye, but it is something to remember in future.

Here's some:
https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...gun/9mm_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger_125.pdf

 

[LiveLife]

Hi, I'm new to reloading

Welcome to THR.

You will likely receive better replies if posted on "Handloading & Reloading" category (I will PM a moderator to move the thread) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?forums/handloading-and-reloading.15/

Disclaimer: Since we are all human with capacity to make mistakes when copying/pasting load data, always verify forum posted information with published load data.

124 gr Berry RN ... Bullseye ... looking for Load Data

Alliant ... site ... only showing ... HP

If you are using regular plated Berry's RN bullet with solid base, I have found using lead load data to work well as when I used jacketed load data, accuracy deteriorated above mid-range jacketed load data. If you are using thicker plated Berry's hollow base RN (HBRN-TP), I found I could use jacketed load data without loss of accuracy.

2004 Alliant load data does list load data for 125 gr Lead bullet and FMJ and since bullet weight can vary by 1.0+ gr, you can interchange load data for 124/125 gr bullets - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?resources/2004-alliant-load-data.18/

• 9mm 125 gr Lead (Likely RN) Bullseye OAL 1.150" Max 4.9 gr (1,165 fps)
• 9mm 125 gr FMJ (Round Nose) Bullseye OAL 1.150" Max 4.9 gr (1,155 fps)

Note: When start charge is not listed, reloaders usually subtract 10% from max charge and use it as start charge.


But if you are using shorter OAL that increases chamber pressure, you may want to reference other load data or reduce your start/max charges (I usually reduce .2-.3 gr if I am using shorter OAL than published based on how much shorter OAL).

Here's Speer lead load data - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...gun/9mm_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger_125.pdf

• 9mm 124 gr Lead RN Bullseye OAL 1.130" Start 3.5 gr (929 fps) - Max 3.8 gr (962 fps)

And Speer load data for TMJ (Total Metal Jacket) which is thick plated RN bullet that can be driven to jacketed load data - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__124_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 124 gr TMJ Bullseye OAL 1.135" Start 3.9 gr (966 fps) - Max 4.4 gr (1059 fps)

And Lyman #49 lists the following: (Weight listed in Lyman Reloading Handbook is without the weight of lube so factor adding a few grains to the listed bullet weight - So 120 gr bullet would be comparable to 124 gr with weight of lube added)

• 9mm 120 gr Lead RN Bullseye OAL 1.065" Start 3.4 gr (939 fps) - Max 4.2 gr (1175 fps)

As to load development and powder work up, when I am using different bullet than what is listed in the published load data, I will review all available load data and reference more conservative load data for my initial powder work up, especially if I am using shorter OAL as I can always go higher.

And before you conduct your powder work up, you should determine the max OAL by using dummy round (No powder, No primer) in the barrel known as the "Plunk Test" and then determine the working OAL by feeding/chambering dummy round from the magazine (Releasing the slide without riding it) and incrementally reducing the max OAL by .005" until you have reliable feeding - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rel-find-a-max-o-a-l-with-your-bullet.506678/

Then using the working OAL, conduct your powder work up from start charge by loading 10 rounds of .2-.3 gr increment to first identify the powder charge that will reliably cycle the slide and extract/eject spent cases and then monitor accuracy trend to identify the powder charge that will produce smallest groups.

If you want to squeeze out more accuracy, once you determine the powder charge that will produce the smallest groups, incrementally reduce the OAL by .005" to see if group size gets smaller.

Here are some step-by-step reloading guide and tips that may help you - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

 

[LiveLife]

I was recently convinced to buy Alliant “Sport Pistol” powder.

It turns out the load listing on the Alliant site is very limited ... also 9mm

Try the website again. There's lots of data. Like 19 loads for 9mm

fxvr5 is correct, there indeed is a lot of load data for Sport Pistol and 9mm.

From Alliant - https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloa...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=42&cartridge=23

• Caliber - Bullet - Case - OAL - Barrel length - Primer - Powder - Weight - Velocity
• 9mm Luger 124 gr Speer GDHP Speer 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.4 1,071
• 9mm Luger 147 gr Speer GDHP Speer 1.13 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 3.7 890
• 9mm Luger 124 gr JHP Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.4 1,087
• 9mm Luger 115 gr Speer GDHP Speer 1.125 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.7 1,132
• 9mm Luger 125 gr Lead RN Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.2 1,108
• 9mm Luger 115 gr JHP Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.7 1,147
• 9mm Luger 124 gr FMJ federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.5 1,089
• 9mm Luger 115 gr FMJ Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.8 1,151
• 9mm Luger 147 gr JHP Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 3.6 894
• 9mm Luger 147 FP Federal 1.08 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 3.5 890
• 9mm Luger 115 gr Speer CPRN Federal 1.135 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 5 1,171
• 9mm Luger 124 gr Speer TMJ RN Federal 1.135 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.3 1,057
• 9mm Luger 147 gr Speer TMJ FN Federal 1.13 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.1 969
• 9mm Luger 90 gr Speer GDHP Federal 1.01 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 5 1,302
• 9mm Luger 115 gr Speer TMJ RN Federal 1.135 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.8 1,164
• 9mm Luger 165 gr Extreme RN plated Federal 1.14 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 3.1 775
• 9mm Luger 115 gr Acme RN-NLG coated Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 4.7 1,170
• 9mm Luger 145 gr Acme RN-NLG coated Federal 1.1 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 3.5 949
• 9mm Luger 124 gr Acme RN-NLG coated Federal 1.05 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol 3.9 1,066

 

[Pat Riot]

Try the website again. There's lots of data. Like 19 loads for 9mm, and they also have 9mm +P. And 17 loads for 45 Auto, also data for 45 Auto +P.
http://alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=42

fxvr5 is correct, there indeed is a lot of load data for Sport Pistol and 9mm.

I guess I should have been clearer. My complaint wasn’t about 9mm. It was about the .38 and .357 loads and the lack of .45 Colt.

Apologies. I didn’t wish to detract from this thread.

 

[AJC1]

I use weight class data with my lyman manual. I also have the lyman cast boolit manual so I add that data. Plated i normally use cast data unless you have a speed note for that particular bullet and a load that closely matches. The manufacturer may provide you data if emailed or called. The one time I reached out rmr responded in 2 days.