HS-6 - 124gr JHP +P Sample Load Data

[Nick C.]

Before I start, I just want to stress that I am not looking to copy anyone's load data. I also know there are some better powders than HS-6 for this development, I just happen to have a lot of it and I'm tired of chasing the better powders that are always out of stock. I have a bunch of RMR 124 grain MPR hollow points. I've already plunk tested a bunch of dummies up to 1.140 in my Beretta, Stribog and Sig P938, though these will be going in my Beretta LTT and Stribog SP9A1 (I prefer 135gr Hornady in the Sig). Brass is Winchester once fired, primers are CCI 500s. I've also already test fired a batch of these at 5.6-5.8 gr @ 1.060", with sub optimal velocities ranging from 1040 to 1090 fps

So with that out of the way, the reason for the post is my Hornady manual stops at 5.9 gr @ 1.060 OAL, and the Hodgdon site stops at 6.1 gr @ 1.060 OAL, both using the Hornady XTP as a sample projectile. Since longer OALs are not in the manuals (that I have), and I know people have gone higher in OAL and powder weight safely with HS-6, I am wondering what sweet spots people have found with their +P or near +P defensive loads, that reliably fed. I don't NEED to work up to an ultimate high end on the charge, but I would like to push the RMR 124s to their recommended velocity of 1150-1200 fps for reliable expansion, and I'm curious to see what worked well for others, so I can have some idea of what to expect or not expect.

I'll be starting my development at the middle of the specified range, 5.9 gr @ 1.090", up to 6.2 gr. The change in OAL is a safeguard against the high end of my load in this batch being .1 gr over max. After those are deemed safe, I would start looking to tweak this series looking for the best velocity with a safe OAL \ higher charge combo. Your time and experiences are appreciated!

 

[Kaldor]

All you can really do with the feeding issues with a long COAL is test in your particular pistols. Ive never found 9mm to be overly picky, and generally run at whatever "plunks" out in my shortest chambered pistol which my case happens to be my M&P Compact 2.0.

As far as the powder charge goes, all you can do is work up slowly. You can go above book max, but you have to be careful getting there. Some powders are more tolerant than others, but I have no experience with HS-6 so I cant tell you where you need to be. Being that you have a chrono, Id work up slow, say .1gr a jump and just shoot 3 of each, looking at your SD/ES numbers and try to get there.

 

[Walkalong]

We really don’t like to recommend going over tested data here at THR, and you can’t test for pressure without equipment, which means you have no idea what the pressure is.

Start low and be careful, if you want max velocities use the bullet the test data is for. If you want to do it with another bullet you take the risk.

If you have a chrono HS-6 should get you where you want to get to with a 124 Gr JHP.

Y'all be careful out there.

 

[Nick C.]

Yup, as I've worked up from the minimum already in batches of 4 for each .1 increase, I'll do the same from the middle to the high range, stopping at .1 over max. If 6.2 grains gives me the target velocity safely, I will stop there. I've just read several times of others needing to go higher with HS-6 \ 124 JHP, so I'm curious to see how OAL came into play. Hearing some real world experiences would help with expectations or lack thereof. But I understand the sentiment. I'll go off into the great unknown testing carefully.

 

[Kaldor]

We really don’t like to recommend going over tested data here at THR, and you can’t test for pressure without equipment, which means you have no idea what the pressure is.

Start low and be careful, if you want max velocities use the bullet the test data is for. If you want to do it with another bullet you take the risk.

If you have a chrono HS-6 should get you where you want to get to with a 124 Gr JHP.

Y'all be careful out there.

Yup, I have some really strong loads with CFE-Pistol for 9mm and 45 ACP, and I dont share them here because thats what Ive found to be safe and functional in my pistols. But using my chrono and watching the brass closely, you can get there. Guys have been shooting Major for a long time, which is way above +P ratings.

 

[Kaldor]

Yup, as I've worked up from the minimum already in batches of 4 for each .1 increase, I'll do the same from the middle to the high range, stopping at .1 over max. If 6.2 grains gives me the target velocity safely, I will stop there. I've just read several times of others needing to go higher with HS-6 \ 124 JHP, so I'm curious to see how OAL came into play. Hearing some real world experiences would help with expectations or lack thereof.

The longer COAL will help, but its mostly just to create more powder space in the case to avoid a compressed load.

 

[Nick C.]

The longer COAL will help, but its mostly just to create more powder space in the case to avoid a compressed load.

Got it. The rep at RMR stated they like loading these to 1.125", and that got me wondering about their reasoning for deviating from the manual's recommended OAL.

 

[Hartkopf]

I believe Hodgdon has data going to 6.6gr HS-6 with 124gr bullets. Somewhere should be +p data.

I've loaded a good bit of the above combination and beyond. I am getting 1210fps out of a Glock 17.

I'm a huge fan of HS-6 for pushing 9mm velocities. Again, somewhere should be +p data you can use so you can officially use tested data and not what some guy on the net recomends.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Yup, as I've worked up from the minimum already in batches of 4 for each .1 increase, I'll do the same from the middle to the high range, stopping at .1 over max. If 6.2 grains gives me the target velocity safely, I will stop there. I've just read several times of others needing to go higher with HS-6 \ 124 JHP, so I'm curious to see how OAL came into play. Hearing some real world experiences would help with expectations or lack thereof. But I understand the sentiment. I'll go off into the great unknown testing carefully.

While we all love to push limits sometimes, recommend following THR guidelines set here when posting loads over max listings: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-posting-extra-heavy-load-information.27444/

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I've used Remington 124gr. Golden Saber data - which seats to a recommended 1.145" - w/ HS-6 as a starting point in the past. Double-check the bullet OAL and compare but IIRC, the REM GS also seats long and gets it's best velocities with HS-6 or Power-Pistol.

 

[Nick C.]

I believe Hodgdon has data going to 6.6gr HS-6 with 124gr bullets. Somewhere should be +p data.

I've loaded a good bit of the above combination and beyond. I am getting 1210fps out of a Glock 17.

I'm a huge fan of HS-6 for pushing 9mm velocities. Again, somewhere should be +p data you can use so you can officially use tested data and not what some guy on the net recomends.

Interestingly, the Hodgdon site currently omits +P \ HS-6 data. I did check that out along with google searching the last couple of days, I was surprised to find that the only two manufacturers listed by Hodgdon for +P 124 grain are Accurate and Ramshot.

 

[Nick C.]

While we all love to push limits sometimes, recommend following THR guidelines set here when posting loads over max listings: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-posting-extra-heavy-load-information.27444/

Very sorry about starting a thread like this. I should have been more aware of the guidelines involved, that is my foul up.
I realize while I may not be looking to jump to recommended load data, others out in the world who read this in the future might not heed the same safety measures. Again I apologize.

 

[N555]

HS-6 is a good choice to hot load 9 with.
I have some ludicrous hot 9mm, I'm talking super sonic 147gr from a 6 inch sub gun with HS-6. These are probably pushing nearly 50,000psi, don't do that, my sub gun is built like a Mauser and doesn't care if I load rounds so hot the case ruptures.
So HS-6 will provide a stabile burn well above normal handgun pressures.

 

[Nick C.]

HS-6 is a good choice to hot load 9 with.
I have some ludicrous hot 9mm, I'm talking super sonic 147gr from a 6 inch sub gun with HS-6. These are probably pushing nearly 50,000psi, don't do that, my sub gun is built like a Mauser and doesn't care if I load rounds so hot the case ruptures.
So HS-6 will provide a stabile burn well above normal handgun pressures.

That's quite a feat getting 147 grain supersonic. I'm going to try running some XTP 147s in my Stribog. You can get some decent velocity out of the 8" barrel with standard loads. I shot up all of my XTPs a month ago at a match, some more is on the way from Midway this week.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Very sorry about starting a thread like this. I should have been more aware of the guidelines involved, that is my foul up.
I realize while I may not be looking to jump to recommended load data, others out in the world who read this in the future might not heed the same safety measures. Again I apologize.

No worries Nick. Just need to be cautious is all. We’ve all been there so I just added a word of caution. Welcome aboard.

 

[fxvr5]

The longer COAL will help, but its mostly just to create more powder space in the case to avoid a compressed load.

What is the concern with a compressed load?

 

[n2omike]

50th edition Lyman lists 6.6 grains of HS6 for the 124 gr Hornady XTP as a max load at 1.060". Velocity is shown to be 1141 fps out of a 4" barrel. The 125 gr Sierra JHP shows the same 6.6 grain max load at 1.175".

For the 115 gr Hornady XTP, they show the max to be 7.2 grains of HS6 at 1.090". 1193 fps out of a 4" barrel. I got a touch over 1300 fps out of a 5" barrel Canik.

Not sure why the heavier bullet is listed as being shorter.

Keep in mind... Both of these XTP bullets have a 'flat point' style of architecture, with straight angled walls . A round nose style bullet will likely be longer, and need a longer OAL.

 

[n2omike]

That's quite a feat getting 147 grain supersonic. I'm going to try running some XTP 147s in my Stribog. You can get some decent velocity out of the 8" barrel with standard loads. I shot up all of my XTPs a month ago at a match, some more is on the way from Midway this week.

It's often all about barrel length. I have a 9mm AR with a 10.5" barrel. I tested it with some old factory Winchester 147 grain FMJ White Box. Every shot was supersonic. I tested some reloads yesterday consisting of 3.8 grains of HP38 (max is 4.1 grains) under a 147 gr. RMR FMJ. They averaged right at 1,100 fps... and that's not even a hot powder, and well under max. Only need around another 50 fps to go supersonic.

Most load data I come across is for a 4" barrel. Longer barrels, even an inch or two increase the velocity substantially. My 5" barrel Canik regularly shoots faster than what the book lists for 4" barrels... Often 100 fps more.

Good Luck

 

[Nick C.]

50th edition Lyman lists 6.6 grains of HS6 for the 124 gr Hornady XTP as a max load at 1.060". Velocity is shown to be 1141 fps out of a 4" barrel. The 125 gr Sierra JHP shows the same 6.6 grain max load at 1.175".

For the 115 gr Hornady XTP, they show the max to be 7.2 grains of HS6 at 1.090". 1193 fps out of a 4" barrel. I got a touch over 1300 fps out of a 5" barrel Canik.

Not sure why the heavier bullet is listed as being shorter.

Keep in mind... Both of these XTP bullets have a 'flat point' style of architecture, with straight angled walls . A round nose style bullet will likely be longer, and need a longer OAL.

Yeah I decided on a 1.125 as the final OAL, I do taper crimp lightly, but I gave it a few thousandths of a bump to account for projectile variations from the data and safeguard against possible setback since I'm going beyond published data. I did a few minutes of different cycling methods (dropping the slide from lock, pulling the slide, etc.) Bullets are staying seated but it doesn't hurt to check. If I could find some Power Pistol, this thread wouldn't exist , but I bought 16 pounds of HS-6 when powders were flying off the shelves, so now I just take my medicine and find a reason to use it, especially now that I have a bunch of Longshot for the .40.

 

[Nick C.]

It's often all about barrel length. I have a 9mm AR with a 10.5" barrel. I tested it with some old factory Winchester 147 grain FMJ White Box. Every shot was supersonic. I tested some reloads yesterday consisting of 3.8 grains of HP38 (max is 4.1 grains) under a 147 gr. RMR FMJ. They averaged right at 1,100 fps... and that's not even a hot powder, and well under max. Only need around another 50 fps to go supersonic.

Most load data I come across is for a 4" barrel. Longer barrels, even an inch or two increase the velocity substantially. My 5" barrel Canik regularly shoots faster than what the book lists for 4" barrels... Often 100 fps more.

Good Luck

That should lend itself well to the 8" barrel with HS-6 or Longshot then. I just need to find a sweet spot for reliable cycling in that Stribog and test both powders.

 

[Nick C.]

Well, off to the range this afternoon, with my second and third series of workups. Ranging from middle of the road to hot. Wish me luck
And thank you to everyone for the conversation.

 

[Kaldor]

What is the concern with a compressed load?

Ive never been a fan of compressed loads with ball powders. You go from OK, to over pressure way to fast. When you are already pushing the envelope for velocity lets not add another variable has been my approach.

 

[fxvr5]

Ive never been a fan of compressed loads with ball powders. You go from OK, to over pressure way to fast. When you are already pushing the envelope for velocity lets not add another variable has been my approach.

Hodgdon thinks compressed loads can be a good thing. Here's what they says about compressed loads:

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/compressed-loads

Normally a pistol or rifle shellcase is considered full, or 100% loading density, when the powder charge sits at the base of the bullet when the bullet is fully seated. It is possible with some powders and cartridges to increase the powder charge slightly above this point, such that when the bullet is seated it actually compresses the powder charge slightly. This condition is known as a compressed load.

Hodgdon notes in its reloading data if the subject charge is a compressed load. A full case, or lightly compressed charge is an ideal condition for creating loads with the most uniform velocities and pressures, and oftentimes, producing top accuracy.

 

[Nick C.]

Everything went perfectly. Without posting the load details, I had no overpressure signs, perfect primers, excellent consistent velocity in the high 1100's on the hot side, excellent accuracy at 15 yards, no FTEs, and smooth cycling. Clean burn on top of that. Definitely burning most of the powder. HS-6 did the job!

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Hodgdons own manual #25 on page 388 shows 124-125gr jacketed max 6.8gr HS-6.
1169 fps in a 4" barrel.

No +P data listed; this must be standard pressure.
Pressure listed in CUP @ 27,100.

You still have some room yet.

I am also a big fan of HS-6 in full power 9mm.