HSUS trying to ban prairie dog hunting in CO

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Zundfolge

Zundfolge

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In case y'all weren't aware...

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Hunting Ban Being Discussed in Colorado!

Friday, April 18, 2008


Please Make Plans to Attend

The Colorado Wildlife Commission will meet to discuss a complete ban on prairie dog hunting in the state of Colorado on May 1-2. While radical anti-hunting/animal rights groups are targeting prairie dog hunting as cruel, it is a traditional sporting activity and necessary management tool, especially for ranching interests in the state. Ban proponents like the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) have boasted that they seek to ban all hunting in the United States "species by species" and this proposal is one more incremental step in their plan to end our hunting heritage.



Prairie dog hunting generates significant revenues used for general wildlife management as a result of hunting license sales and Pittman-Robertson excise taxes on ammunition, firearms and other equipment purchased by sportsmen. This ban will put an end to this essential stream of revenue and detrimentally affect the management of deer, elk and other species. In addition, Colorado attracts hunters from around the country who generate significant economic activity that benefits the rural communities that need it most.

The Colorado Wildlife Commission will be meeting at the Holiday Inn on 755 Horizon Drive, Grand Junction, CO 81506 on May 1 and May 2 starting each morning at 8:30am.

Please attend these meetings and voice your support of all hunting in Colorado. It is critical that sportsmen show that the radical anti-hunting lobby is in the minority by significantly out-numbering them at the meeting. If you are unable to attend, please call the Colorado Wildlife Commission at (303) 297-1192 and inform them that you are strongly opposed to any attempt to ban prairie dog hunting in Colorado.
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Shows you what I know, I thought honest-to-god prairie dogs were threatened.

Around here, we only have ground squirrels. (Not sure of the latin name.) But they're definitely a nuisance.
 
Personally, I think there can stand to be a better balance on this issue, from both sides.

In my experience, too many people are at the far ends of this spectrum:

On one end you have the folks who believe that no prairie dogs should ever be hurt, killed, etc... This is obviously troublesome for the folks who own property that is being impacted by the PD's. If it isn't damaging the ecosystem, a measured amount of hunting isn't detrimental to the species.

On the other end of the spectrum are those who believe that the entire purpose of a PD is to be shot and killed for amusement... Many folks would happily kill every prairie dog that ever walked the planet. But, the prairie dog is an essential piece of a healthy ecosystem, and many other animals survive by feeding on the PD's.

As such, I have no problems with the hunting/shooting/extermination of them on private lands (like any varmint). But, I don't see the point in blasting away at animals on public lands if I am not going to eat them (and I don't know of anyone who is eating prairie dogs -- if you do, more power to you). To me, it is the same reason I don't shoot song birds and the like...

Anyway, that's just my $0.02
 
CK, there are two separate deals here.

I don't know if Wayne Pacelles is still the Head Whatzit of HSUS, but he is on record for ending ALL hunting and after "winning" over us hunters, will then go after fishermen. No different from Ingrid Newkirk of PETA.

As to prairie dogs: Some areas are also inhabited by the Black-footed Ferret, which is an endangered (or, at least, threatened) species. In those areas, I'd agree with a ban on shooting prairie dogs.

Unrestrained increases in populations of prairie dogs on public lands is just as harmful as on private lands. As near as I can tell from reading, the amount of natural predation in today's world is less than it was back in the days of the buffalo herds. I don't pretend to know all the reasons.

Hunting the little critters is a form of population control over them. The particular motivation of any individual hunter is irrelevant. One thing for sure, however: Shooting will never make truly serious inroads on the numbers, compared to past actions such as the use of poisons.

My own smart-mouthed view is that if more guys went out prairie dog hunting, they might not try the same effort at a school or shopping mall.
 
Can anyone explain - just what IS the damage they cause? I've heard that the old line about cows stepping in holes and breaking their legs is BS; that in reality, the holes don't bother the cows a bit. So what's the problem? I'm not against shooting them - I'm just wondering if they actually do any harm?
 
What harm?

As long as they're alive, the HSUS *******s are happy. Anything that makes them happy, is doing harm by definition.
 
Can anyone explain - just what IS the damage they cause? I've heard that the old line about cows stepping in holes and breaking their legs is BS; that in reality, the holes don't bother the cows a bit. So what's the problem?
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You dammed sure didnt hear that from anyone running cattle . The holes endanger stock's legs , towns provide an ideal place for rattle snakes which also harm stock with some regularity . and it takes a surprising few prairie dogs to eat as much grass as a cow . Prairie dogs eat the grass so short that a well established town becomes virtually bare dirt which then can blow and kill out grass in other areas of the pasture . We are currently dropping poison in our towns and i hope the hell we get a 100% kill tho i know that is unrealistic . We used to allow/encourage folks to come shoot them but i cut that off due to some slobs that shot some stock .
 
I hope that doesnt pass there. I am right under you in n.m and love shooting praire dogs all along the colorado nm border
 
we HAVE proposed an alternate plan to trap and ship (postage paid of course) the delightful little critters to the HSUS and the politicians responsible for this bill... no reply as of yet!:evil:
 
I was talking to a guy from Colorado at a hunting dog training seminar last weekend. He was telling me that some "animal rights" idiots showed up at the big annual contest they hold, in full camo, about 700 yards downrange. They were trying to shoo the prairie dogs away, while guys were shooting. They were arrested (luckily for them).

Anyway, reporters obviously asked them what the hell they were thinking. They harped about 1500 prairie dogs being killed at this event, and how horrible this was.

Ironically, in the same day's paper, in a nearby column, an article said that BLM (as I recall) had poisoned 40,000 prairie dogs to prevent further damage to some land.

If there's a stop to the hunting, most likely even more of the rodents will be killed than are now. They'll just be poisoned instead of quickly dispatched with a V-Max, and only after doing more damage. This seems to be fairly common when sport hunting is not used for game management: more animals killed, at a cost to the taxpayer rather than more selective culling that produces revenue.

BTW some varmint guys I know say that, after they shoot one, his neighbors often will immediately rush in and eat the remains. These are not exactly sentient beings...
 
And dumb!

If I were standing around with some buddies, and one of them just up and exploded, I wouldn't stand around for very long.:)
 
Watching prairie dog behavior when shooting, my take is that you shoot one and three come for the eulogies. "Alas, poor Yorick..."

Harm? I saw a video of "exploding varmints", taken in an alfalfa field. I'd say that quite possibly 15% to 20% of the land was bare dirt circles around the burrows. Then add the reduced growth around the bare spots, and the farmer's harvest may well not make him any profit--not that his banker or the school-tax folks care.
 
As such, I have no problems with the hunting/shooting/extermination of them on private lands (like any varmint). But, I don't see the point in blasting away at animals on public lands if I am not going to eat them (and I don't know of anyone who is eating prairie dogs -- if you do, more power to you).
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Prairie Dogs proliferate at an incredible rate. They destroy the public range land by consuming all the grass down to dirt. They are a direct result of range loss in Gunnison County resulting in the Gunnison Sage Grouse being on the verge of being on the endangered species list. Hunting them on public land helps to control their population and the range degradation that they cause. It is also a great way to get young hunters interested in hunting because it is a fast action hunt with lots of trigger time.

If left uncontrolled they over populate and frequently die of of the Bubonic Plague or other diseases. The Plaque will spread to people if they are in close proximity to the prairie dogs. In our local Nation Recreation Area where we are not allowed to hunt prairie dogs, all the prairie dog colonies got the plague a couple of years ago. 100% die off and a large part of the Nation Rec. Area closed off to the public for most of the summer - severely hurting the local economy. Just across the highway in the State Wildlife Area where prairie dog hunting is allowed, the population stayed healthy and did not contract the plague because they were not overpopulated.

Hunting has its purpose when it comes to prairie dogs. Banning hunting would be a huge detriment to the environment. People should be allowed to hunt prairie dogs on public and private land if they choose. Would you like to be banned from owning a firearm? To me, being banned from prairie dog hunting is as much an infringement on my rights as being banned from owning a gun. It should be a personal choice, not one mandated by the government.

Please write a quick email to the wildlife comm. and tell them that you are opposed to any ban on hunting/prairie dog hunting at: [email protected]
 
Backcountry,

While I respect your opinion, I must highlight that prairie dogs existed on public lands for thousands of years before we were here to "control" them.

As I mentioned, I have no real issue with private land hunts, or shooting them for food (if that's your thing). But, let us not forget that nature has methods of controlling the prairie dog population on public lands... and I don't buy the argument that some folks (not necessarily you) bring to the table in saying that we should shoot as many as possible for sport.

The prairie dogs are preyed on primarily by foxes, badgers, black footed ferrets (a species which has become endangered due to declining PD numbers), coyotes, bobcats, golden eagles, hawks, and even snakes. They are considered to be a keystone species by biologists, and the health of many other species depends on this source of food!

As is, PDs only inhabit about 5% of their historic range, and their numbers have greatly declined due to efforts to remove them. Similarly, the Black Footed Ferret -- a species which is completely dependent on the PD for survival -- is limited to approximately 2% of it's historic range, and is a listed endangered species.

So, I think strong arguments also exist for reasonable controls on hunting this species. I am not even completely opposed to hunting these animals on public land, but I feel that -- as I originally mentioned -- more balance needs to exist on both sides of this equation.

To me, the overall health of the environment trumps some of our desires for hunting recreation (just like we can't kill elk at large year-round).



I'm not speculating on some of this stuff either, and you may feel free to check some of the references I refered to:

The National Audobon Society Field Guide to North American Mammals (see printed version)

Peterson Field Guides - Mammals (see printed version)

The Blackfooted Ferret Recovery Program

(http://www.blackfootedferret.org/facts-threats.html)

National Geographic - Prairie Dog Profile

(http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/prairie-dog.html)

Wikipedia

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prairie_dog)






Backcountry said:
To me, being banned from prairie dog hunting is as much an infringement on my rights as being banned from owning a gun. It should be a personal choice, not one mandated by the government.
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So where do we draw the line on this issue?

Are reasonable hunting regulations that unreasonable to all of us? Elk are currently over-populated in many parts of this state... By this logic I should be okay to go out and hunt a couple of elk tomorrow (and I've really been itching for an elk hunt). But, I doubt that many folks here would advocate me hunting these animals out of season, and I doubt that I'd be allowed to harvest elk without limits.

By the same token I feel that neither end of the spectrum is completely right on the PD issue (whether than means killing them all, or banning hunting)

Every species has a role to play, and we shouldn't regard their existance as unnecessary (lest we repeat the saga of the American Bison).
 
Ck, since the issue of shooting prairie dogs has been around for at least forty or fifty years that I know of, I gotta think that hunting is not anywhere near a problem for prairie dogs.

After all, there are still more than enough for the shooting that goes on.

Lessee: Jerry Gebby adapted the .250-3000 to become the "Varminter", the .22-250, in the 1930s. Nebraska guy. Prairie dog country. 70 years ago.

Still got prairie dogs. Lotsa prairie dogs.

Looks to me like any population problems with prairie dogs have zilch to do with folks shooting them. Looks to me that most of the excitement against shooting them is on the part of folks who are overly affected by the dreaded Hall Monitor Syndrome. PETA, HSUS, and other such strange creatures.
 
I was talking to a guy from Colorado at a hunting dog training seminar last weekend. He was telling me that some "animal rights" idiots showed up at the big annual contest they hold, in full camo, about 700 yards downrange. They were trying to shoo the prairie dogs away, while guys were shooting.
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The only way to make this a worse idea is to wear a praire dog hat to draw fire.
 
ColoradoKevin, Hunting prairie dogs is not the reason for their decline in numbers or range. Human development and urban sprawl are the main reasons. Maybe we need to tear down most of the front range cities and homes that have encroached on the prairie dog territory so that their range can be restored? A less radical approach would be to ban ALL further human development where prairie dog colonies live. I don't see this happening do you? Some of these anti-hunting people are also anti-development and would love to see this scenario come to pass. Hunting is not the issue when it comes to prairie dog numbers. It is the the anti hunters way of stopping hunting one species at a time. Down the line will they will be going after elk hunting.

Hunters are the greatest conservationists. The money spent on hunting licenses, gun, ammo and gear have a tax on them that go to wildlife conservation. Prairie dog hunters generally do not want to kill every prairie dog, not that it would be even possible. Like hunting elk or deer, a prairie dog hunter wants to keep a healthy population available for the next hunt. When I hunt a dog town, we always leave a large seed population so that the hunting will be their for the following year. Nothing goes to waist in nature. I have never seen a dog carcass left the following day after a hunt. Birds, coyotes, badgers, other prairie dogs, etc consume everything that is shot. Man has killed off a lot of the prairie dogs predators in his expansion across the country. Now man has to step in and replace these predators to keep a balance, just as in hunting big game. Overpopulation of a species leads to a crash in its population, adversely affecting the species that prey on them. Predators need to keep this balance. We are the predators.

Encouraging hunting of prairie dogs is a much more environmentally sound way to keep a balanced population as opposed to the governments method of poisoning the animals. Poisoning wastes tax payer dollars and introduces poison into the environment that gets shifted down the food chain and affects the predators that eat the poised carcasses. Hunting brings money into our small rural communities in the form of lodging, sales of ammo, guns and other hunting supplies, food sales and hunting license sales. Hunting is a win win situation for our small communities, game conservation, and revenue generated by the sales of licenses. I know my community relies one hunting and fishing to survive, it represents a large part of our economic base. Hunting of prairie dogs on public or private land is a non issue in a loss of prairie dog habitat. Human development is the reason that prairie dogs are loosing habitat. The banning of hunting of any species is just the anti-hunters way of getting their foot in the door to ultimately ban all hunting followed by the banning of all private ownership of firearms.
 
Backcountry,

In a lot of ways I agree with what you have said in your last post.

We have removed too many predators from nature, and in some ways it is hard to gain them back. I agree that an over population of animals typically leads to other problems.

I'd also happily see the sprawl of civilization slow down along the Front Range... But, that's just wishful thinking!

The bigger question (to me) is where do things currently lie with the PD population? I don't think that our opinions should ever fall in the way of fact, and I don't know that any of us truly have the answer to the question (one way or another). But, are we, as hunters, willing to listen to objective third party information (from state/federal biologists and the like) regarding their populations, both now or in the future? I'm certainly not saying that PETA or HSUS should have a say in the matter, as they are fringe organizations that have other motivations... But, I am concerned with hearing what the un-biased wildlife biologists have to say on the issue!

All I am advocating is that we don't be totally opposed to proper management of the species, lest it be eliminated.

I obviously don't agree with PETA or the other organizations that would entirely outlaw hunting. And, I am well aware that most of the money that the CDOW gets comes from hunters and fishing (in fact, a little-known fact is that the CDOW is entirely self-funded, and doesn't receive any money from the state... Thus, hunting/fishing/habitat stamps really are crucial to their ability to do what they do).

But, while I know that there are many ethical hunters who would do the things like you or I would do (ensuring that there are enough of the species to survive), I also know that there are many folks who could care less whether or not the species survives. We have to face the facts that not all hunters are ethical, but even many of the non-ethical folks are law-abiding (in other words, I know of people who would hunt as many of any given animal as they possibly could, if only they were allowed to). And, I think we need to be willing to examine some of the related impact that hunting would have on prairie dogs (like the effect on the black footed ferret population).

So, happy hunting... and please don't walk away from this conversation thinking that I want to take it away from you (only objectively monitor it from time to time)!
 
Interesting read. I don't hunt PD's..... probably never will, and can see valid points from both sides. Thru what I have read and been told by those that know, I know that in most areas of PD habitation that poisons and other things( like aggresive agriculture and urbanization) have a greater impact on populations than hunting pressure. Hunting generally only culls the young and the dumb. Poisons kill everything including the predators that prey on them. As far as hunting's influence on the black footed ferret, I assume like most top end predators in the wild, there never were a lot of them, even in the pre-whiteman days, and that the ingestion of poisoned rodents kills more than the lack of prey.

I agree with some of the others here and assume the reason that the anti's are targeting the PD hunts are because of the small amount of folks hunting them. Kinda like going after bear hunting with dogs. Because there are relatively few folks that do it, there is less resistance, thus it makes it easier to influence law makers to take a stand against them, than against a form of hunting with higher numbers. Taking a path of least resistance, they start at the easiest targets and then will chip away with hunting privileges that only a few participate in until they can move on to bigger targets once they get their ball rolling.

This is why us as hunters must continue to support all forms of hunting, even if we do not actively practice it. If we don't, they (the anti's) will chip away till there's nothing left.

Is there someplace I can e-mail to show my support for the continuation of our right to hunt these little critters in Colorado?

[email protected]
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ooops, nevermind
 
their numbers have greatly declined due to efforts to remove them
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See also my post above....

Protests about shooting 1500 while tax dollars and government authority are used to poison 40,000?

Hunting isn't the problem here, if the things are endangered in any way (which they're not).
 
OK, admission: I haven't read all the very latest posts so far, something came up.

But now I'm sitting here wondering what mental state a member of HSUS must be in to think that the death of a Prairie Rat by natural causes (Ferret, eagle, coy-dog, or whatever) or by slowly bleeding to death internally or asphyxiation by pesticides or having your den covered up by a bulldozer is more "humane" than looking around at the blue sky and a millisecond after a bullet makes contact, there's nothing.

Seems to me that HSUS ought to recognize that a varmint bullet is the most humane death a prairie dog could have.

Also, weren't they removed from the Endangered Species Candidate List a year or so ago because the data on Prairie Rat populations provided by the various protectionist groups was shown to be false or misrepresented?

My memory isn't that bad yet. If DOW could not trust the data these groups provided back then, why should they trust them now?

All this tells me that it isn't about hunting...

...Say, where have I heard that phrase before?

(E-mail sent, but boy, did I goof up. I left the term "Prairie Rat" in the message by mistake, once only. Well, there's one for the Delete Key. Nuts. I've been using that term for about thirty years and my eyeballs just slipped right over it. Bad 230RN! Bad! Bad!)
 
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