SniperStraz
Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2006
- Messages
- 871
Looked like about a 4.5 in. Any more than 7-8in. is no longer a knife.
hunting boar with knife *video*
- Thread starter yongxingfreesty
- Start date
- Status
I've slaughter my share of mostly sheep and that kill didn't seem too bad to me. I used a .22 for a stunning (hopefully killing) shot and then cut the throat. Some animals don't twitch as long as others. As I understand it, a kosher slaughter doesn't involve a stun--just a sharp knife, basically.
Maybe there was some blood lust in there, but I am not so sure that is a bad thing per se. Don't know the kids to make any judgement.
Lobo
Maybe there was some blood lust in there, but I am not so sure that is a bad thing per se. Don't know the kids to make any judgement.
Lobo
wow hunting with a knife is one thing but those kids where a step away from complete retardation. go hunting for food go hunting for a trophy but to go hunting to prove you got a pair while having all your peeps getting your back is bull****. o and as far as them being kids excuses go i am 24 and i still say bulls.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Goodness knows how the video was edited, but the duration of the hog's death struggle seemed pretty much in line with the 'one-shot-one-kill' rifle hunting I've done. I didn't think they were being overly cruel.
How do you know why they killed the hog? For all we know, they're gonna have a pig-picking and went to a field where they've been having hog issues to harvest the pork. Other than displaying the 'Beavis and Butthead' awkwardness of youth, I didn't see anything overtly 'Lord of the Flies' about it. And, given that we have no fangs and claws and are really pretty slow, pack hunting is probably as much in our genes as it is in the canids.
I wonder if y'all would look at this differently if they were twenty years older and refrained from including such adolescent music in the video?
plexreticle
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 1,240
Why would you ever film something like that?
Full Clip
Member
So you could brag to your buddies and look macho.
I'm sure PETA has that clip on their site as well.
I'm sure PETA has that clip on their site as well.
12GA00buck
Member
Cutting the throat would have been prudent, but the pig died fast enough. Those were some real good hunting dogs. The knife should have been a bit longer.
They may have been a bit overly enthralled with the killing, but they'll mature over time. Killing is part of hunting, you don’t have to enjoy it, but you have to accept it. The pig may have lived even longer if it was shot and wounded.
Overall it looked like a fun hunt, and I don’t have any moral qualms with it.
They may have been a bit overly enthralled with the killing, but they'll mature over time. Killing is part of hunting, you don’t have to enjoy it, but you have to accept it. The pig may have lived even longer if it was shot and wounded.
Overall it looked like a fun hunt, and I don’t have any moral qualms with it.
is not the hunt or the method used to kill the animal it was their overall atittude it just seem wrong, kill the animal and get it over with but to film it like that and with that music it's just not wright.
Dont get me wrong i love the song it is an old Metallica song but it just dint go with the ocasion.
Dont get me wrong i love the song it is an old Metallica song but it just dint go with the ocasion.
No one is saying that hunting with a knife, spear, bow is wrong.
No one is questioning the chosen game.
I am questioning the blood lust of the folks involved. Game is to be treated with respect. That is what we have been taught. The hunt has taught us to understand our game and it's habits. To emulate the surrounding terrain... To revere the land.
If my Grandfather has seen me in that video, Metallica or not, who would have beat me... If my wife had seen me in that video she would be ashamed of me.
This is typical of kids, they acted before they thought. They have no one around to teach them The High Road and have done damage to our cause by filming this act and posting it to youtube....
No one is questioning the chosen game.
I am questioning the blood lust of the folks involved. Game is to be treated with respect. That is what we have been taught. The hunt has taught us to understand our game and it's habits. To emulate the surrounding terrain... To revere the land.
mbt2001 said:
If my Grandfather has seen me in that video, Metallica or not, who would have beat me... If my wife had seen me in that video she would be ashamed of me.
This is typical of kids, they acted before they thought. They have no one around to teach them The High Road and have done damage to our cause by filming this act and posting it to youtube....
rbernie
Contributing Member
Let's please try to not get all mushy and weepy over this stuff, OK? We kill animals. We try to be reasonable about it, but let's not pretend that it's not what it is - a means by which we retain the skills of our ancestors and provide for the nourishment of our bodies. Hunting is not some pseudo-mystical event that requires incantations over the carcass, rending of clothing, and imposing of ash upon the brow of the hunter. It's a freakin' hunt. It's SUPPOSED to be bloody. It's SUPPOSED to involve the loss of life. <shrug> Speaking solely for myself, I find it pretty hard to be reverent while tossing a gutpile into a hole or feeding it to the hogs, ya know?
If you can somehow conjure 'bloodlust' out of the actions in that video, you're the next Great Carnack. The worst I saw was a momentary adolescent fascination with the bloody hand. That's just shock value stuff. It's not like these guys danced around painting each other with the blood of their kill.
I don't disagree entirely, but that's less a function of the way the hunt was conducted and more of a function of the fact that everything these days (including every private act known to mankind) is seen as fodder for The Video Generation.
Picknlittle
Member
Rbernie,
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you say nothing wrong with that,...If you see "anything" in that conduct that was reasonable or even the sort of sportsmanship you would teach to your children, then I'm glad you're not influencing any kids I know.
Yes, we kill animals. We try to do it humanely with respect for the game and for the hunting sport. Yes there is even a sense of satisfaction and gratification when the hunt is successful and a well placed shot with gun or arrow drops the animal without delay, but that's far from the bloodlust seen here. These were thugs who would just as well be having their way with a pet out in the front yard!
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you say nothing wrong with that,...If you see "anything" in that conduct that was reasonable or even the sort of sportsmanship you would teach to your children, then I'm glad you're not influencing any kids I know.
Yes, we kill animals. We try to do it humanely with respect for the game and for the hunting sport. Yes there is even a sense of satisfaction and gratification when the hunt is successful and a well placed shot with gun or arrow drops the animal without delay, but that's far from the bloodlust seen here. These were thugs who would just as well be having their way with a pet out in the front yard!
rbernie
Contributing Member
To be fair, the actions of these boys is hopefully not how I'm teaching my children to act. But I also remember what it was like being a stupid adolescent male (lo those many years ago).
Exactly. I'm willing to cut them some slack for being stupid adolescent males bereft of adult supervision. Give them a few years and I'm pretty sure that they'll not consider that video to be their finest moment. But their behavior stopped well short of thuggery, in my opinion.
See, this is the hyperbole that makes me want to push back on y'all. Y'all have taken a stupid video and compared the acts of these boys into Lord of the Flies level beastiality.
Ye gods - where do you come up with this stuff?
The extreme levels of human nature are seen most readily in children. Whoever thinks that if the children ran the world there would be peace, is a fool. That is obviously why we correct and teach our kids.
If we can all agree that "we wouldn't have made that video" or "this isn't the way we think", then we can all join together in condeming it. One reason that hunting has been governed by religion in Human History is to keep crap like this from happening. Life is sacred. That doesn't make hunting wrong, but it certainly makes movies like this wrong. The game is to be respected 1.) for the food it provides 2.) for the enjoyment it provides 3.) for it's life.
So hyperbole is crap when "we" use it, but when you use it then it is acceptable???
QUITE SLAVE! Now bow to the great and all drunken Karnack! BOW!
P.S. Maybe you don't understand, but no one is saying that the hog took too long to die. We are saying that inflicting a mortal wound, then jamming the camera in the hogs face as it makes its last gasps and finally when it is too paralyzed to stop you, you cut out his balls and feed them to the dogs and all the while you and your buddies are are laughing, that is wrong. Thos guys have 2 videos on you tube. In one of them, I am not sure the hog is quite dead when his nuttz are extracted and thrown to the pack.... http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=t26fTgCjvEk
Anyway, it is hardly the way that I was taught how to do things.
If we can all agree that "we wouldn't have made that video" or "this isn't the way we think", then we can all join together in condeming it. One reason that hunting has been governed by religion in Human History is to keep crap like this from happening. Life is sacred. That doesn't make hunting wrong, but it certainly makes movies like this wrong. The game is to be respected 1.) for the food it provides 2.) for the enjoyment it provides 3.) for it's life.
So hyperbole is crap when "we" use it, but when you use it then it is acceptable???
QUITE SLAVE! Now bow to the great and all drunken Karnack! BOW!
P.S. Maybe you don't understand, but no one is saying that the hog took too long to die. We are saying that inflicting a mortal wound, then jamming the camera in the hogs face as it makes its last gasps and finally when it is too paralyzed to stop you, you cut out his balls and feed them to the dogs and all the while you and your buddies are are laughing, that is wrong. Thos guys have 2 videos on you tube. In one of them, I am not sure the hog is quite dead when his nuttz are extracted and thrown to the pack.... http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=t26fTgCjvEk
Anyway, it is hardly the way that I was taught how to do things.
I didn't really see much of a difference between the two different videos other than the Metallica song and the cutting off the pigs testicles part and trying to give it to the dogs for a job well done in the first one. They both featured a bunch of guys hunting with dogs and then killing the pig with a knife. If anything, the pig screaming in the second one might bother more people, the first one died pretty quick and pretty quietly with the exception of some kicking.
As far as looking at it after they killed it, what are they supposed to look at? Just because they were standing around looking at it afterwards doesn't imply any sort of blood lust, it just means that they were looking at their dead game after a successful hunt. Whenever a bunch of guys get together to go hunting there's going to be a bit of chest beating involved, it doesn't have to get out of control and it doesn't give you the right to go stupid things, but we should all recognize that it's still there, even if it's sometimes concealed.
Many people recoil at the thought of using a knife on another living being, maybe that's where some of the comments against it are coming from. I've read about this in a book called On Killing by a Col. Grossman. It talks about how most people have a natural resistance to killing at close range and will almost always look to increase the range if they're in a situation where they do have to kill. Anyway, that's what I immediately thought of when looking at this thread, so if it's off topic, I'm sorry, but I tried to connect the two thoughts as best I could.
I actually wouldn't mind hunting in close quarters like this, I'd probably use a revolver to finish to job personally though and I'll skip the last step in the first video. That looked like something I wouldn't want to touch with my hands.
As far as looking at it after they killed it, what are they supposed to look at? Just because they were standing around looking at it afterwards doesn't imply any sort of blood lust, it just means that they were looking at their dead game after a successful hunt. Whenever a bunch of guys get together to go hunting there's going to be a bit of chest beating involved, it doesn't have to get out of control and it doesn't give you the right to go stupid things, but we should all recognize that it's still there, even if it's sometimes concealed.
Many people recoil at the thought of using a knife on another living being, maybe that's where some of the comments against it are coming from. I've read about this in a book called On Killing by a Col. Grossman. It talks about how most people have a natural resistance to killing at close range and will almost always look to increase the range if they're in a situation where they do have to kill. Anyway, that's what I immediately thought of when looking at this thread, so if it's off topic, I'm sorry, but I tried to connect the two thoughts as best I could.
I actually wouldn't mind hunting in close quarters like this, I'd probably use a revolver to finish to job personally though and I'll skip the last step in the first video. That looked like something I wouldn't want to touch with my hands.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Browning, IMO your points about "close range" are well taken. Our society's outlook on blood and gore seems to be that if it's at a distance, it's not so bad, but up close and personal? Uh-uh.
So, if there are those who are seen to indeed get up close and personal, all manner of negative judgements arise from the bystanders.
Separate from that, though, is the fact that the progression with age is common: First, rather indiscrimate killing. Then, selectivity about what and how game is taken. After that, teaching and helping while hunting. Finally, teaching and helping.
When one is fully aware of this progression, negative expressions are rather pointless.
Art
So, if there are those who are seen to indeed get up close and personal, all manner of negative judgements arise from the bystanders.
Separate from that, though, is the fact that the progression with age is common: First, rather indiscrimate killing. Then, selectivity about what and how game is taken. After that, teaching and helping while hunting. Finally, teaching and helping.
When one is fully aware of this progression, negative expressions are rather pointless.
Art
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2003
- Messages
- 13,341
Ok once we get past the "Bambisms" that are being spouted here lets break it down into what was really shown.
1. The hog down and out in 9 seconds. Hardly a "slow" lingering death.
2. Most of the people here who are disgusted at the "brutality" of this video wouldn't have the guts to do the same. It takes a lot more intensity to kill with a knife than it does with a rifle at long range.
3. You've got young guys who obviously are not very tactful and their choice of music is a bit over the top. But they did nothing more than use catch dogs and a knife to finish that little hog. Nothing more nothing less. There is ABSOLUTELY no behavior there that is indicative towards murderous behavior in regards to people or pets. Because these guys used a knife rather than a gun is what is bothering some people because they don't consider it to be the norm.
4. I've killed about a dozen hogs with either knives or spears. I've had a few hog fights that were one hell of a lot more "brutal" than that. That episode was very mild. And no that isn't because of the weapon it's because of the intimate range in which said lethal weapon is used. A gun is much more violent for the most part but you aren't there to smell the breath and feel the blood flow onto your hands with a gun.
5. That hog may have weighed 80 lbs on the outside. Notice how the one guy picked it up with one hand? A 200Lb + hog with a knife can be a friggin fight.
6. I am always a bit shocked to see some of the responses that anything to do with dogs, knives or "non standard" game elicit on this site. The anti-hunting Bambist message is getting through loud and clear and it is divulged on this site with great regularity. But I've come to appreciate the chance to educate rather than argue. Diversity is what makes this site great.
1. The hog down and out in 9 seconds. Hardly a "slow" lingering death.
2. Most of the people here who are disgusted at the "brutality" of this video wouldn't have the guts to do the same. It takes a lot more intensity to kill with a knife than it does with a rifle at long range.
3. You've got young guys who obviously are not very tactful and their choice of music is a bit over the top. But they did nothing more than use catch dogs and a knife to finish that little hog. Nothing more nothing less. There is ABSOLUTELY no behavior there that is indicative towards murderous behavior in regards to people or pets. Because these guys used a knife rather than a gun is what is bothering some people because they don't consider it to be the norm.
4. I've killed about a dozen hogs with either knives or spears. I've had a few hog fights that were one hell of a lot more "brutal" than that. That episode was very mild. And no that isn't because of the weapon it's because of the intimate range in which said lethal weapon is used. A gun is much more violent for the most part but you aren't there to smell the breath and feel the blood flow onto your hands with a gun.
5. That hog may have weighed 80 lbs on the outside. Notice how the one guy picked it up with one hand? A 200Lb + hog with a knife can be a friggin fight.
6. I am always a bit shocked to see some of the responses that anything to do with dogs, knives or "non standard" game elicit on this site. The anti-hunting Bambist message is getting through loud and clear and it is divulged on this site with great regularity. But I've come to appreciate the chance to educate rather than argue. Diversity is what makes this site great.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2003
- Messages
- 13,341
< Art wuz here >
What these kids did was to take a basic non-event and spice it up with some "evil metal" music and some less than flattering camera shots of themselves and their kill. They are trying to look impressive for the camera like adolescent boys will do and they are trying to get a rise out of people. Which apparently in some cases it has worked.
What they actually did was knife a small, young boar that was caught by a team of dogs. An event which is about as ballsy and dangerous in reality as jumping off the high dive at the public pool.
I don't get where some of you guys are getting that this was so dangerous. It's not that big of deal from a danger stand point to knife a hog thats been caught by good dogs.
Now I would kindly ask you to move away from the emotion and address at least one of my points.
1. The hog was out in 9 seconds.
2. These guys did nothing illegal and were using a commonly practiced method to catch and kill a very prolific and destructive, non native varmint, the feral hog.
3. While I agree that the whole video was in poor taste and had a "Deliverance" southern redneck theme, what was it in particular that you think should be stopped in regards to the method used to kill that hog? He was taken very quickly and humanly. He was out and dead faster than many hogs I've shot with heavy caliber rifles.
Was it the fact that these guys filmed it up close and personal?
Or was it the fact that they look like a bunch of punk thugs?
Which as far as I can tell is the preferred look of many of our youth today.
What these kids did was to take a basic non-event and spice it up with some "evil metal" music and some less than flattering camera shots of themselves and their kill. They are trying to look impressive for the camera like adolescent boys will do and they are trying to get a rise out of people. Which apparently in some cases it has worked.
What they actually did was knife a small, young boar that was caught by a team of dogs. An event which is about as ballsy and dangerous in reality as jumping off the high dive at the public pool.
I don't get where some of you guys are getting that this was so dangerous. It's not that big of deal from a danger stand point to knife a hog thats been caught by good dogs.
Now I would kindly ask you to move away from the emotion and address at least one of my points.
1. The hog was out in 9 seconds.
2. These guys did nothing illegal and were using a commonly practiced method to catch and kill a very prolific and destructive, non native varmint, the feral hog.
3. While I agree that the whole video was in poor taste and had a "Deliverance" southern redneck theme, what was it in particular that you think should be stopped in regards to the method used to kill that hog? He was taken very quickly and humanly. He was out and dead faster than many hogs I've shot with heavy caliber rifles.
Was it the fact that these guys filmed it up close and personal?
Or was it the fact that they look like a bunch of punk thugs?
Which as far as I can tell is the preferred look of many of our youth today.
Last edited by a moderator:
MattC
Member
Well, my posts above were out of line. I clearly don't know enough about hog hunting to have even chimed in. H&H, and the others, thank you for straightening me out. The Lord of the Flies reference was too much--I was upset because of the symbolism I interpreted when the kids tossed the testicles to the dogs.
I apologize for starting this off on a negative note, and thank you for the lessons.
I apologize for starting this off on a negative note, and thank you for the lessons.
tnieto2004
Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,389
Yup .. slowing down and replaying the guy stabbing it over and over is a bit much ...
Picknlittle
Member
Okay,...this is turning into a debate on hunting ethics and human behavior. We'll likely never come to agreement because personal values and experiences will dictate mindsets.
Let me try to clear my plate.
1. H&H, I didn't say that your pic offended me. It does seem to me that by posting that particular pic of dead hogs and spear, that you have an appreciation for what the video represents for you that "I" will never grasp.
Let me make an assumption. Judging from other post on other topics, I get that you are a hunter and sportsman. You enjoy the hunt and have built a group of skill sets that help you out think your game, play on the trait of your game and then by your choice of weapon you plan and execute a quick, humane kill. The choice of the close and personal approach with knife or spear is no different than the choice of gun or bow. Each choice requires a different skill set, and a different approach to getting "close enough".
That said, what I see in these kids is a gang mentality more akin to a pack of wild dogs, using dogs to chase down the animal, then in this show of bloodlust machismo, brutally slaughter the animal , then rejoice in the aftermath. I call that sick.
Yes, there are some who have applauded the tactics, but by "us", I'm referring to what I believe is the majority that share my point of view. I could be wrong but it really doesn't matter. Reasonable men share reasonable differences.
I've never seen the Lord of Flies, don't have a clue what it refers to, but what I see in the behavior of the kids in this video leads me to believe they are capable of much worse than this because of the apparent charge they get from the act.
Now,....if sheer survival was my goal. If my only available weapon was a knife , stick or rock, could I and would I use them to eat another day? You betcha! But I think I might use a hunting approach more in line with what I "think" you, a hunter, would have used.
Let me try to clear my plate.
1. H&H, I didn't say that your pic offended me. It does seem to me that by posting that particular pic of dead hogs and spear, that you have an appreciation for what the video represents for you that "I" will never grasp.
Let me make an assumption. Judging from other post on other topics, I get that you are a hunter and sportsman. You enjoy the hunt and have built a group of skill sets that help you out think your game, play on the trait of your game and then by your choice of weapon you plan and execute a quick, humane kill. The choice of the close and personal approach with knife or spear is no different than the choice of gun or bow. Each choice requires a different skill set, and a different approach to getting "close enough".
That said, what I see in these kids is a gang mentality more akin to a pack of wild dogs, using dogs to chase down the animal, then in this show of bloodlust machismo, brutally slaughter the animal , then rejoice in the aftermath. I call that sick.
Yes, there are some who have applauded the tactics, but by "us", I'm referring to what I believe is the majority that share my point of view. I could be wrong but it really doesn't matter. Reasonable men share reasonable differences.
I've never seen the Lord of Flies, don't have a clue what it refers to, but what I see in the behavior of the kids in this video leads me to believe they are capable of much worse than this because of the apparent charge they get from the act.
Now,....if sheer survival was my goal. If my only available weapon was a knife , stick or rock, could I and would I use them to eat another day? You betcha! But I think I might use a hunting approach more in line with what I "think" you, a hunter, would have used.
plexreticle
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 1,240
Q: How can you tell someone hunts with a knife?
A: They tell you.
My question is why film it? Personally, I feel bad when I kill an animal, I feel better when I eat it though. I never understood why people are proud of killing. I look at it as a necessity but not something to film and show off.
That's just my personal opinion.
A: They tell you.
My question is why film it? Personally, I feel bad when I kill an animal, I feel better when I eat it though. I never understood why people are proud of killing. I look at it as a necessity but not something to film and show off.
That's just my personal opinion.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2003
- Messages
- 13,341
Ok let me clear something up about knife and spear hunting hogs with dogs. The reason that I started using as knife or a spear was out of necessity.
It is because I love and honor my hunting dogs. They are my friends and close companions and they love to hunt with me as much as I love to hunt with them.
Several years ago the one of my dogs was shot by an overzealous hunter after the dog had bayed a hog.
That is when I started carrying a cold steel asegai spear and a K-bar in my truck. It is much safer to use a knife or a spear in some circumstances than a gun when using dogs to bay or catch hogs.
The video is a juvenile product of a juvenile mind. HOWEVER what I can appreciate is that somebody in that group has spent a lot of time and money on breeding and training some very good hog dogs. And setting up a rigged truck to carry those dogs. At least one of those guys is a serious hunter who has no small amount of time and money into his sport.
My main point is simply this. What you witnessed in the video is no more brutal than any other way we kill an animal. It is just more personal and in your face with a knife or a spear. There is simply no difference in the time it takes to kill whether using a knife a spear an arrow or bullet to penetrate the heart.
When I watch that video I see a bunch of wild young pups who need a bit of training and re channeling to make them into respectable men. I don't see a bunch of future serial killers as some have eluded.
Just my $.02 take it or leave it.
It is because I love and honor my hunting dogs. They are my friends and close companions and they love to hunt with me as much as I love to hunt with them.
Several years ago the one of my dogs was shot by an overzealous hunter after the dog had bayed a hog.
That is when I started carrying a cold steel asegai spear and a K-bar in my truck. It is much safer to use a knife or a spear in some circumstances than a gun when using dogs to bay or catch hogs.
The video is a juvenile product of a juvenile mind. HOWEVER what I can appreciate is that somebody in that group has spent a lot of time and money on breeding and training some very good hog dogs. And setting up a rigged truck to carry those dogs. At least one of those guys is a serious hunter who has no small amount of time and money into his sport.
My main point is simply this. What you witnessed in the video is no more brutal than any other way we kill an animal. It is just more personal and in your face with a knife or a spear. There is simply no difference in the time it takes to kill whether using a knife a spear an arrow or bullet to penetrate the heart.
When I watch that video I see a bunch of wild young pups who need a bit of training and re channeling to make them into respectable men. I don't see a bunch of future serial killers as some have eluded.
Just my $.02 take it or leave it.
- Status
Similar threads
