Hunting is evil

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clear cutting for browse for deer? if that isnt drug induced euphoria i dont know what is. I can confirm in 2 counties in NYS that no such thing exists. i can confirm it because i have residency in onondoga and cortland. and yes i stay up on these things. they dont need to clear cut and burn for graze, deer wander the fields regardless. they ruin a good bit of crop too. they almost took out my HS friends treefarm.

if you dont like hunting, dont hunt. i dont like you talking, but you dont see me petitioning to have you muzzled
 
could sombody find the link to penn and tellers video called bull???? it shows peta for the truly horrific asses they are after she watches it and knows the truth she may have a diffrent view at least partialy that is if she has the courage to know about the truth. sorry double post
 
Get off this board if you don't like what we are doing.

I will tell you this, nothing you say is going to make me stop squirrels, rabbit, deer, or freakin alligator if I choose to do so legally. :cuss:
 
fellas...
i've had a change of heart. its time to stop the presses!

a 15 year-old girl who gets her information from alf, and statistical analysis from a single day of deer season which happens to coincide w/ the peaking of the rut, has made me realize i am a contributor to the problem.

i have seen the error of my ways. i have seen the light! i no longer wish to feel the adrenaline rush, listen to the bullet thwap, see the most dramatic sunrises, or the most relaxing sunsets, or be a part of the unsanitized, raw beauty of the open prairie, dense forests, breath-taking river breaks, or pristine mountains.

yeah... that's gonna happen.
 
Ok, a more serious post than the first one.

You can not rely on statistics or "facts" from those biased sources to be correct.

If you really want to know the truth, it's out there, but you're going to have to do a bit more work than just going to the anti-hunting/animal rights sources to find it.

Sadly, the only coherent and well constructed material you have posted has been lifted from the sites whose propaganda you have swallowed hook, line and sinker. You need to formulate your own thoughts, based on REAL facts rather than just looking around for some ideas that sound attractive and accepting them without question.

I'll give you a challenge. You have quoted some "FACTS" that you found listed on anti-hunting/animal rights websites. I challenge you to pick one or two of those "facts" and then find the actual sources of the data used in the quotes. In other words, don't just accept what the website told you to be true, actually take what they say and verify it using independent information.

It's often true that some of these facts are simply made up. Others are badly misquoted or twisted so that the original meaning is lost.

Here's a good example of how that can happen. It is not uncommon to see a statistic quoted that says something to the effect that 8 children a day are killed in the U.S. by firearms. Wow, you say, all those little kids dying every day because of firearms! Well, the NUMBER is correct but there are a few things they're not telling you.

First of all, they are calling anyone under 19 a child. Also, they're counting deaths due to police shootings, justified shootings by citizens, deaths due to suicides, deaths due to one gang member shooting another, etc. So while the NUMBER is correct, the PICTURE created in your mind by the statistic was actually quite flawed. It's not really about 8 little kids a day dying, in fact, it's mostly about teen criminals killing each other, legally being shot by police and also about teen suicides.

You'll probably find that many of the "facts" that you've been relying on are either badly misleading, or just made up.

Good luck on the challenge.
 
joab said:
Here's a link for you sweetie

http://www.wimp.com/petaprotest/
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BWAHHH!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I have an all new respect for Penn and Teller.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

BTW, the last deer I killed was a doe, 'bout 100 pounds. I took one shot, she turned to run and fell down on her back less than 5 feet from where she was standing when I shot. (1) Kick.... (2)kick...............(3)kick.............................nothing.

I think that might blow at least a couple holes in your theory. If a hunter is not responsible enough to take a good shot, a deer can suffer. If hunters in general are not responsible enough to continue hunting, many deer will suffer. (Sorry, this is proven by analyzing herds that are hunted vs. herds that are not. Many researchers have done this...for years)

As for deer reproducing MORE offspring because they are hunted.... I'll need some explaination on that one. I see that you're only 15, so without being graphic, please explain how the natural reproductive cycle can be doubled. Also, please let me know where this is taking place so that I can hunt there.

Might I just add that she (the doe) was very tasty. Ummm.... backstraps....
 
Young lady,

I think you are laboring under a mistaken assumption. This is not a forum to debate the evils of hunting or the lack of evils of hunting.

We all like to hunt here. We eat what we kill except for the occasional varmint. We'd be glad to teach you how to hunt safely and ethically.

We won't debate you. We've done what you've only talked about with people who've only talked about it. You don't have the necessary knowledge to debate the matter.

There is a logical fallacy in America today that follows from "everyone has a right to their opinion." The fallacy that many fall into is the false belief that their opinion means as much as anyone's opinion. It does not.

My opinion about how neurosurgery should be conducted is absolutely meaningless for I have no knowledge or training in neurosurgery. On the other hand, my opinion on emergency nursing is meaningful due to the fact that I've been working as a RN in the emergency department for eleven years.

There's centuries of hunting experience on this board. They aren't going to be impressed with someone who has no experience with animals at all.
 
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Byron Quick said:
Young lady,

I think you are laboring under a mistaken assumption. This is not a forum to debate the evils of hunting or the lack of evils of hunting.

We all like to hunt here. We eat what we kill except for the occasional varmint. We'd be glad to teach you how to hunt safely and ethically.

We won't debate you. We've done what you've only talked about with people who've only talked about it. You don't have the necessary knowledge to debate the matter.

There is a logical fallacy in America today that follows from "everyone has a right to their opinion." The fallacy that many fall into is the false belief that there opinion means as much as anyone's opinion. It does not.

My opinion about how neurosurgery should be conducted is absolutely meaningless for I have no knowledge or training in neurosurgery. On the other hand, my opinion on emergency nursing is meaningful due to the fact that I've been working as a RN in the emergency department for eleven years.

There's centuries of hunting experience on this board. They aren't going to be impressed with someone who has no experience with animals at all.
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you sir have said it more eloquently than i could have ever worded it thank you for your input and words of wisdom.
 
There are two very simple reasons for dead animals along highways.

The first is that there are more green growies in the ditches along the right of way. Why? Easy: Think "rainfall runoff". It rains, and all the water runs off to the side. The pasture beyond the ditch doesn't get as much water. Water makes growies grow.

Deer and rabbits and mice eat the nice green growies. They sometimes err in when they go what direction. Rabbits and mice attract coyotes and foxes, who also may err.

At night, headlights attract bugs. Bugs attract such animals as skunks and raccoons.

It gets worse in drier weather, as the disparity between the foodstuffs on the rights of way as compared to pastures is greater.

A little ecology session, there...

:), Art

PS: If you're driving at night and see a deer in the headlights, try to go in front of the deer. For a deer, safety is "back there", and they'll more likely turn and go back, rather than forward.

Cows do the opposite. If there's anything a danged old cow hates, it's to be headed off from where she was going. Go behind a cow.

Horses? Good luck. Horses are suicidal. They'll work at staying in front of your car.

Hogs: Avoid like the plague, or a Democratic Convention. Hitting a hog is like driving over a large boulder. Flip city. Center-hit a hog, if you just gotta hit the sucker.

:), A
 
Red_Wind said:
...Also sterlization of deer has proven to be more effective in lowering deer herds then hunting has. . . .
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You are in no way as intelligent as you belive if you think there is truth to that.

Animals are God's creatures,
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Absolutly, all them have a place right next to the mash potatos & gravy.

and while I can't stop you from hunting,
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You have that part right.

I am disgusted by the way hunters brag about the animals they shoot.
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Many people are, so what. I am disgusted by the way anti's think they are so moral, as the live in a house of glass. So I guess that makes us even in an odd way.

Edited to add; I have noticed many link - references to domestic terrorist groups posted by Red_Wind. It is sad to see how young minds are brainwashed by these groups. And how their generation has discontected from nature.
 
Redwing, I will have to admit this souce is a reasonable one:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/tips/myths.html

But where on that page do they mention that hunting is wrong or increases automobile accidents?

Also you should look at a contridiction in your therory. If hunting increases populations, how did hunters wipe out the wolves in most of the country? You can't have it both ways.
 
Cosmoline said:
LINKS, young jedi. LINKS. Otherwise you're just blowing hot air.
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That's it, Cos...maybe its Windbag

And that was a mighty fine post, Mr. Quick! Thank you, Sir!
 
"Emotionally, there is the satisfaction of continuing an activity begun thousands of generations before me."

It was so foggy in the marsh this morning we couldn't see the goose and duck decoys, so mid-morning we left the guns in the floating blind and spent an hour wandering around a creekside corn field just turning green with new winter wheat. We found 3 arrowheads and had a great conversation about hunting. :)

John
 
From a post of mine in an eariler thread (Oct 2005):

I took my oldest son (7 years old) out for an afternoon duck hunt yesterday. We took out the canoe and went to some public land about 40 minutes north of here. We didn't see any ducks, and the only geese we saw were out of range (although the were directly overhead). However, the trip was just perfect IMO. Here's a (probably incomplete) list of what we did experience:

- We spent about 1 1/2 hours travelling, during which we visited and talked without distractions.
- I taught him about using the canoe, from how it's secured while travelling, to boating safety and how to row.
- He helped me paddle out to the area in which we were hunting.
- We put out decoys together, and talked about how they are constructed and the different kinds of birds they emulate.
- We got rained on a couple times.
- We saw an awesome rainbow.
- The fall colors were still vibrant, and we spent time talking about the different colors and shades we could see, as well as the types of trees.
- I explained how animals tend to move early in the morning and late in the afternoon... a pattern he was able to see for himself.
- We both used goose and duck calls.
- Quite a few sandhill cranes came by our location.
- He started to get an idea of ID'ing songbirds by their size and flight patterns. He also got used to listening for geese and figuring out just how loud and irritating cranes can be.
- We had several thousand blackbirds which had landed in the wetlands near us (they came in a steady stream for almost an hour) take off en-masse. He thought that the loud noise was thunder, and was amazed when I explained that it was just all of their tiny wings moving all at once.
- A large "V" of geese formed directly overhead, from smaller bunches coming together. I didn't shoot, as they were too high, and explained at length about why I didn't take the shot. It was a good lesson in ethics for him.

So, it was a GREAT day!! By the way, at one point, I asked my son how he was doing. He replied "Well... I'm cold, wet and a little bit bored." I laughed and said "Of course you are. You're hunting!"
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Hunting isn't all about killing... a fact that goes ignored by the people who form opinions based on a distinct lack of knowledge.
 
Red_Wind said:
:banghead: I am a bit disappointed that there are so many people convinced they are doing the right thing by going into the woods and shooting animals for pleasure or sport. After speaking with a hunter myself, and reviewing the facts, I can't deny that hunting is nothing short of wrong, and perpetuates the very problems it claims to solve! (do some research on overpopulated deer and how hunters are causing their numbers to rise). Also after speaking to any hunter after they have shot a deer, they feel as if they have accomplished something, no? But do you know that at the same distance you have to be to shoot a deer, a wolf or even a wolf pack would be ignored as deer can easily outrun them? Not so tough are we? And the ethics of bowhunting. . .56% of deer and elk shot by bowhunters are not recovered, and left to suffer a horrible death! And hunters describe themselves as compassionate. . .I don't get it. . .I would love to have an intelligent debate with an open minded hunter, (and I can do the same). Please note that I am not against hunting, it's the stocking hand fed birds for targets, canned hunts, unethical shots, and the problems that hunting causes. Perhaps there was a need for hunting at some time, though hunters have increased the whitetail deer population, as well as causing the car/deer collisions that they promised to reduce! And must we kill the population in order to kill them? The 90% of non-game animals that make up the majority are healthy non overpopulated animals righted by nature.
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Red Wind,
You contradict yourself my friend. you start out by saying
"After speaking with a hunter myself, and reviewing the facts, I can't deny that hunting is nothing short of wrong, and perpetuates the very problems it claims to solve!"

then you say in the same paragraph
"Please note that I am not against hunting,"

which is it buddy? are you not against something you feel is wrong? Go play somewhere else!!!!! I hunt and i always eat what i kill. I also go to the store and buy food which i eat. I believe that wastfullness is wrong, especially when a hunter is not a good enough shot to get a clean kill. there have been plenty of times when i have not taken that shotbecause i know i cant make a clean kill. There are some idiots that call themselves hunters. they will shoot at bushes that move thinking there is a deer in there. those are the people that kill other hunters. Responsible hunting is not only good, but it feeds some families, along with creating many long life friendships.

i think your barking up the wrong tree coming here and making your statements. if your going to try to make a point, please at least dont contradict yourself. :neener: I wont argue with an idiot..not trying to be rude, but take a look at what you wrote my friend.
 
I find it interesting that people yell about animal rights. People have rights which means we also have responsibilities. You can't separate the two. If you have a right, you have a responsibility. Animals don't have responsibilities so they don't have rights. It is the people who have the responsibility to treat animals in a humane way, not making them suffer needlessly. You are saying that responsibly using the natural resources of this planet is wrong. Check the Bible - they were meat eaters in that too.
 
Oldnamvet said:
I find it interesting that people yell about animal rights. People have rights which means we also have responsibilities. You can't separate the two. If you have a right, you have a responsibility. Animals don't have responsibilities so they don't have rights. It is the people who have the responsibility to treat animals in a humane way, not making them suffer needlessly. You are saying that responsibly using the natural resources of this planet is wrong. Check the Bible - they were meat eaters in that too.
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yeah in the bible they used to have "burnt offerings to God" that would be painful.
 
lol

Mostly I find it interesting that everyone thinks that I am so biased. . .then why am I here on a hunting site? Why do I routinely go on PRO HUNTING SITES to learn firsthand about hunting? I know how bullets work, and more about the environment them most hunters do, because it is a topic I care about, and have cared to learn about it. I too have flip flopped between whether or not I think hunting is cruel, though learning first hand about it, I must say it is, and perpetuates the problems it claims to solve. (read about the FACTS) and if you really care about the deer herds, then why have you skewed the female:male ratio (1:1) to almost 8:1 by shooting the STRONGEST HEALTHIEST bucks so you can brag about your kills? Also hunting is about money, and creating more animals to shoot, not about the envrionment. The ring necked pheasant is not a native to North America, though hunters imported them here for the sole purpose of shooting them. Hunting has led to the near extinction to the Sumatran Tiger, (only four hundred remain thanks to hunting) and the dodo bird that was hunted relentlessly for sport. Even wolves reduced to 5% of their formal range are in their condition thanks to hunters. And now Idaho has voted to remove them for the benefit of hunters, so they have no competition for their "prize deer and elk antlers". Left unaltered nature shall right itself as I have told you before.

At least answer this: can you at least admit that hunting is unnecessary?
 
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