Hunting rifles and cartridges: a complex issue? Or is it?

[H&Hhunter]

I'm sure good recoil pads will help any .30-something rifle or something like a PAST pad or a shoulder pad that fits in a hunting vest. The thing I really did love about my Browning A-Bolt II .25-06 with a BOSS muzzle device and recoil pad was that it was recoil-less. It gave me ringing artillery ears the night after using it for ground squirrels sans ear protectors. It is best to have your ears on when firing any Browning repeatedly with a BOSS device on the barrel as during a varmint shoot with much repeated firing. One or two BOSS-equipped shots during a successful deer hunt won't hurt your naked ears. In the woods The .25-06 round might harm good meat for a properly-placed shot (not a gut shot like I did due to incorrect aim for a deer quartering toward me at 45 degrees, I mistakenly aimed right behind the shoulder as if the deer was standing broadside) unless the velocity is worked down at a loading bench. Reloading is not my bag. .243 Winchester is probably the best soft-shooting cartridge, effective but not meat-damaging, worthy of deer in the woods. My favorite Savage 99 was offered in this sub-25-caliber "deer" chambering at one time or another.

I’ll see your .243 and raise it with a 6.5 CM, my new favorite easy shooting deer killer. And it’s fairly useful on elk too. The 6.5 IMO is the most useful light recoiling game rifle I've ever used. None of the recoil, all the penetration and killing power you need under most conditions on thin skinned game.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

1. woods deer (blacktail, whitetail)
.30-06

2. meadow/mountain deer (mulies)
.30-06

3. elk
.30-06

4. moose
.30-06

5. sheep, Bighorn (Rocky Mountain and Desert), Dall, and Stone
.30-06

6. fox
.223

7. coyote
.223

8. chucks
.223

9. prairie dog
.223

10. squirrel, tree and ground
.22 LR or .223

11. black bear
.30-06

12. cougar
.30-06

13. bobcat
.30-06

14. coon
.22 LR

15. gopher and rat
.22 LR or .223

16. lope on the plains
.30-06

17. buffalo
.30-06

18. wild pig
.30-06

19. feral hog
.30-06

20. mountain goat
.30-06

21. feral goat
.30-06

22. brown bear
.30-06

 

[jmorris]

It’s as complex as you want to make it for yourself.

For example, I could have used my very first centerfire rifle (30-06) to kill everything I have ever hunted with a center fire rifle or pistol. That said, It’s probably been 27 years since I have hunted anything with it, because I have too much other stuff to try.

Lots of people seem to worry about recoil, for a shooter, that might be legitimate. For a hunting rifle, you are killing something, with any luck a single shot. You’ll have other stories to tell before you get to the recoil, if you can even remember it.

I guess if you don’t shoulder the rifle and get “scope doped”, you’ll have something a little more permanent to talk about.

 

[Mike J]

I apologize for being a bit redundant. I have posted this before but back in 1989 I wanted a deer rifle. 9 out of 10 older men I knew from work used .30-06 rifles for hunting. I bought a .30-06. It has always done what it was designed to do.
I am another that believes you are overthinking things. Pick a cartridge. Pick a rifle. Get it sat up the way you want it & go with it. If you are concerned about meat damage place your shots carefully. I haven't shot a lot of magnum rifle cartridges. I have shot 7mm mag & it was just a hair more recoil than my .30-06. I don't really want a 7mm mag but if I had a deer lease on a bean field that might change (most places I hunt 2 or 3 hundred yards is a pretty long shot because you usually can't see that far. too many trees & hills).
I still haven't bought anything, but I've been wanting a .308. Not because my old .30-06 is lacking in any way but .because it seems that .308 ammunition is easier to find these days. I don't reload so readily available factory ammunition is something to consider. For me I wouldn't worry about a round being a barrel burner because it is doubtful I will have the time & money to wear one out anyway. I'm not too worried about damaging collector value because while I don't really abuse my guns I do buy them to use not to collect. They are tools.

 

[Dr T]

Nothing like a bad case of "paralysis by analysis." Frankly, Mr. Humphrey's response was the first thing that popped into my mind.

There are a lot of cartridges that can do every thing on the list. The question is how much margin for error do you want at the extremes. With the exceptions of item 22 (for which I personally would prefer an armored personnel carrier and a 375 H&H at the minimum) and 9, 10,13,and 14 (for which I would say 22 LR or WMR) my personal list would start at 6.5 cm and go to 30-06.

It includes:

6.5 CM
6.5 x 55
270
7-08
30-30
30-40
308
30-06
7.62x54
35 Whelen

and a bunch of others I don't have in the safe.

Pick one and be happy.

But if you decide to start splitting hairs (or hares as the case may be), you can fill a couple of gun safes up with rifles tailored for specific niches and bullet weights and constructions (guilty). My mental image is of a nimrod with a gun caddy resembling a golf bag so that he will have the right gun on hand when a specific shot presents itself.

 

[Demi-human]

If the rifle is a cheap model, it might just be more practical to replace whole rifle instead of the barrel. If the gun is rare, sentimental and/or expensive, a new barrel might ruin the value or collector value especially if you are a numbers-matching type. I would not shoot a high-value or beloved gun a whole lot. I don't think the Savage 99 was ever offered in a barrel-burning caliber unless it was the .250-3000 Savage. If you are an avid competition shooter, plinker or target shooter, you have money to burn anyway. An AR doing a lot of pest control might do well to be chrome-lined.

Okay. So what has that to do with a cartridge per quarry?
I guess I don’t know why you’ve stated your question like you did, a list of animals, when really a dedicated discussion of the hunting technique per animal would be in order.

If it were about the cartridges what has barrel life to do with it? Performance is performance.
What has a cheap rifle to do with it? Performance is performance.
A sentimental rifle’s cartridge usually isn’t chosen by the present owner. So its sentimentality is not based upon the cartridge, per se. More so if it isn’t shot a lot because of its value.

2, 3, 6,12 and 13 are viable criteria for a rifle and cartridge purchase.1,4,5,7,9,11 don’t apply as they are personal limits. 14 is ridiculous because no varminter would accept the accuracy penalty for the for the increased round count. 10 doesn’t apply if 7 is true. No one has control of 8.

As for the list, I would do all but 5 with a 450 Bushmaster. 5 would get a 458WinMag.

I’m trying to see it another way, but there you have it.

 

[Archie]

I am glad to see the matter is discussed enough to make some aware of the selection process. I've met too many people who own a Weatherby mostly to show off their income. I don't hunt any more (scarcely any less) and the .257 Roberts I already have will likely do for me all I can reasonably expect. But for someone expecting to hunt in Alaska, they would probably find the .257 a bit light.
And many will simply inherit or be given something and use it.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I am glad to see the matter is discussed enough to make some aware of the selection process. I've met too many people who own a Weatherby mostly to show off their income. I don't hunt any more (scarcely any less) and the .257 Roberts I already have will likely do for me all I can reasonably expect. But for someone expecting to hunt in Alaska, they would probably find the .257 a bit light.
And many will simply inherit or be given something and use it.

Owning a Weatherby as a status symbol is kind of like being all puffed up about owning the biggest mobile home in the trailer park.

 

[LoonWulf]

Owning a Weatherby as a status symbol is kind of like being all puffed up about owning the biggest mobile home in the trailer park.

Weatherby's way easier to park......

 

[gotboostvr]

I ran the balistics on a few dozen popular cartridges about two years ago when I was investigating a new hunting rifle.

And honestly, comparing similar loads there's surprisingly little variation.

From 6.5cm/x55 and 270Win all the way up to 338Fed, there's not a whole lot of difference. Some, yes certainly. But picking loads with similarly suited bullets, at 400yrds or less it's a pretty close race.

Then there's 300WM, 7mmRM, 6.5PRC and the like.

I like the 7mm's as you get a little more lead on target than the 6.5's but aren't paying as much of a recoil tax for it. You still get a nice large selection of bullet weights and typically a twist rate to stabilize them. Something like a 7x57, 7mm-08, 280Rem or 280AI. Great for deer sized game and not to big or small for varmint or really large game. The 6.5's may work, but a 7 is just a little extra insurance on the big stuff.

 

[James Fonteneaux]

25 years ago I bought my first gun, a Remington 7400 in 30.06. I shot it as much as I could, and shortly had the opportunity to go deer hunting with it. As luck had it, the chamber was egg shaped when it left the factory, so the rifle ended up back in Ilion, NY. They fixed it at the factory, but not before the hunt, so I wound up with a Wal Mart special Winchester Model 70 in .270. Went on the trip and shot a nice doe, got hooked for life. That rifle ended up getting sold off, but I never got over having a Model 70. Fast forward, now I have the same rifle in...30.06. At this point I could and likely will get a much "nicer" rifle, but the hog I shot in the face last year didn't seem to mind being shot with a "cheap" gun. For me, if you could only have 4 firearms, they should be the following:
A centerfire hand gun
A centerfire rifle capable of taking deer/hog sized game
A .22 rifle
A Shotgun

As far as the handgun goes, I'm really into the 10mm, but as much as I like them I think
a .357 revolver would likely be the most versatile choice. Anything from mousefart plinking loads to full house defensive rounds, done.

For the centerfire rifle, make mine the 30.06. I can make ammo that runs the spectrum from mild to wild. 308 isn't bad at all, but I think the '06 is more versatile. I've shot many deer over the years with all sorts of calibers, shot placement and bullet selection are key.

Rimfire, I like the Marlin model 60, I've killed a lot of pests with it, but I also own a10/22 and a few bolt 22s. Don't limit yourself.

Shotgun. Yes you should have one. I don't shoot clays or hunt birds, so I can't say what would be best for that, but you can't really go wrong with a basic pump 12 or 20 gauge.

Unless you're doing YouTube videos or shooting competitions every weekend, burning a barrel out shouldn't be a major concern. Especially not on a hunting rifle. As has already been stated, find the one that fits you and go shoot it.

 

[High Plains]

I live and hunt on the High Plains, aka the Land of Ten Trees. Concealment here is usually by means of a low spot or a dry creek bed used to stalk closer to White tail and Mule deer, yet still end up with a 250 - 350 yard shot. And sometimes there is no walking and you simply wait for the deer to move through a funnel. Good shots from scoped rifles chambered in 243 WSSM to 300 Weatherby have dropped deer with me or my fellow hunters I helped.

 

[marksman13]

I could, and likely would, hunt every species on your list with my Ruger No. 1 International chambered in 30-06. That’s it. Turn the lights off. Everybody go home. I gave up on trying to justify new rifles and cartridges a few years ago. Now, I just buy rifles in new chamberings because I want to give them a spin.

I’ve figured out that a whitetail deer can be killed cleanly and responsibly with anything from a 22 LR (not that I recommend it) through any magnum cartridge you like. Could say the same thing for any animal of similar size. Pick the rifle and chambering you like (forget that stupid idea about chrome lined barrels) and shoot until you are comfortable with it. Then, go kill some animals. They are tasty and almost assuredly organic and free of antibiotics.

 

[d2wing]

Some great answers here. My perfect choice is a 7-08 in a Tikka T3. Lol. But then any high velocity centerfire from .223 to 30-06 has and will kill anything I want to kill. I also like the .35 Remington and 30-30. Nobody bad mouths a .257 Roberts. Try a .243 in a rifle you like.

 

[The Glockodile]

I dont usually even try figure what im gonna hunt with it before i buy it......found some real gems that way.

I decide what to hunt after buying the rifle

 

[I6turbo]

I dont usually even try figure what im gonna hunt with it before i buy it......found some real gems that way.

I resemble that remark. I don't even hunt but the last gun I bought was a .270 that I thought would be just perfect for anything that I might decide to hunt. As far as I know I'm not going hunting but I'm very happy with the gun, it feels like it was designed for me, has a great action and a surprisingly good trigger, and I think it's perfect for hunting. I probably need to put one of the 25 or so un-used scopes that I have on it, then sight it in so it'll be ready to roll on that hunting trip that I'm not expecting to take.

How you like my logic?

 

[35 Whelen]

There are too many variables in choosing rifles and cartridges for whatever kind of hunting you do.
Factors include but are not limited to:

1. where you live
2. where you hunt: woods, meadows, mountains, desert, snow country, plains, open lowland fields
3. what you hunt
4. availability of rifles
5. availability of calibers and prices of ammo: the Savage Model 99 was probably mostly chambered in .300 Savage (my grandfather owned one in this caliber) but how widely available is this ammunition today and what about its price per shot?
6. rifle prices
7. ammo prices in which calibers especially if you are not a handloader which most American hunters and varminters are not
8. you inherited or received as a gift one or more rifles and you want to hunt with them for sentimental value, so you want to try to make the most out of them by getting the best loads available for whatever caliber the gun happened to be chambered in
9. velocity, some calibers like .25-06 and .22-250 Remington are notorious barrel burners because they zoom at over 3,000 fps: other calibers shoot too fast for woods deer so meat destruction might be an issue as in the case of the .270 Winchester
10. how re-load-able, neck-sizable up-load-able and/or down-load-able is the particular cartridge?
11. range and accuracy
12. legality: may I hunt deer with this gun and it's chambering in my jurisdiction lawfully?
13. recoil level
14. is the barrel lined with chrome?, important for hyper-velocity rounds with a lot of shooting

I think the following cartridges are most versatile if not most practical for most American hunters and pest controllers:

.308 Winchester - anything from little does to black bear to bull moose, sometimes prairie dog towns, .30-06 is overkill on recoil unless you want to shoot brown bear
5.56 NATO - cheap and widely available, varmints, the only trouble is, how many good-quality (forget about Ruger American Ranch bolt-actions) hunting or varmint rifles are actually on the market and chambered for it?
.223 Remington - fairly cheap and widely available, varmints
.17 HMR for small furbearers like fox to minimize pelt damage
.22 Long Rifle for everyday rats and gophers around the farm or ranch

Please name your favorite regular-production rifles and factory loads for the following North American species?

1. woods deer (blacktail, whitetail)
2. meadow/mountain deer (mulies)
3. elk
4. moose
5. sheep, Bighorn (Rocky Mountain and Desert), Dall, and Stone
6. fox
7. coyote
8. chucks
9. prairie dog
10. squirrel, tree and ground
11. black bear
12. cougar
13. bobcat
14. coon
15. gopher and rat
16. lope on the plains
17. buffalo
18. wild pig
19. feral hog
20. mountain goat
21. feral goat
22. brown bear

Here is why Mr. Gun Blue 490 does NOT particularly like the 25-06 Rem. for a number of reasons, it's a specialized niche caliber that burns barrels out:



I bought a new Browning A-Bolt II Boss in .25-06 in 1996 and took a small California buck with it and killed a few ground squirrels as well. It took the small buck in the woods that was accidentally hit in the paunches at 100 yards so I can't attest to it's meat destructive notoriety. This gun was Leupold gold ring Vari-X II 1.75x6x32mm scoped. Offhand from the bench I got a perfect MOA with Federal Premium 117 gr. SPBT. Back then even, each round was a buck a pop! A short time earlier, I bought a Ruger Model 77 in .257 Roberts that shot pie-pan groups and was promptly returned to Walmart where I reluctantly convinced the manager to take the gun back because the fore-end wood was warped and pinching the barrel on the right side. Mr. Gun Blue in the video above claims the Roberts has an accuracy advantage over the .25-06 but comparing the range testing of the A-Bolt vs the Model 77, it would be hard for me to have believed back in 1996. I got my nice Browning A-Bolt II (free-floated barrel by confirmation with a five-dollar bill) a short while afterward. It had no recoil to speak of and I thought the name of the caliber sounded cool and that's why I bought it. I knew from looking at ballistic tables even then and and knew it flew at over 3,000 fps. I only fired the gun 40 times since new and it was stolen unrecovered three years later in a home burglary. I did not know then that such high-velocity calibers burned barrels out. In recent years I've been learning one has to select a gun and a caliber not just based upon a cool-sounding name.

Did I mention that the Ruger in .257 Roberts was a bit on the stout side too, kick-wise?

When I was a young man, I too overthought things like this and had multiple centerfire rifles to use depending on the game being hunted, and I hunted everything from prairie dogs to elk. But time and experience have changed that and now I'd be perfectly content (and successful in the field) with a bolt rifle wearing a variable scope of no more magnification of 9X, and chambered in either .280 Remington or .308 Winchester. For any game smaller an accurate 22 LR will suffice.

35W

 

[Bartojc]

I bought my first centerfire rifle about 32 years ago in 30-06. Its been on a lot of deer hunts in that time. Honestly it does just as good of a job today as it did when I bought it. At the time a lot of MI hunters were using 30-30, and still do. I was heading to WY and wanted more range and a rifle I could use to hunt anything in lower 48. It works. Fast forward 30+ years and I have other options but the original is still just as effective.

In a more recent change we now have a straight walled cartridge law in the lower part of our state. We used to be able to only use shotgun slugs. Now with straight walled cartridge rifles we can use the likes of 44 mag, 450 bushmaster, .357 mag, etc. Even new options being developed like the 350 legend.

Sometimes laws and regulations change allowing a different better option like slugs vs 450 bushmaster.

-Jeff

 

[KansasTrapper77]

Now I personally believe variety is the spice of life, and I enjoy a challenge. So although I love my scoped .30-06 I haven’t taken a deer with it in years. I’ve changed it up with iron sights and a 45-70, this year I’ve been dialing in a .303 Enfield for CMP matches and I’ll be taking it into the deer woods. A lot of these fellows have pointed out that splitting hairs on the cartridge and rifle will take some of the fun out of it. Go with your gut, a rifle that fits and a cartridge that interests you will get the job done.

 

[mokin]

Am I the only one that see a neat new* rifle, cartridge, or some other random hunting accouterment and then starts figuring out what I can hunt with my new discovery?

*might be old, but new to me

LOL

 

[Nature Boy]

It’s only complicated if you make it that way.

*nature boy raises his hand*

I develop a new hunting load every season for at least 2 rifles / cartridges.

Why?

1. Because I can
2. Because it’s fun
3. I learn something new each time I do it
4. Shooting my hunting rifles more gives me confidence when it comes to “the moment of truth”

 

[Archie]

Weatherby's way easier to park......

Correct. But it does take up a place on the gun rack anyway.

 

[Varminterror]

Barrel burners? What, can no one turn a wrench anymore? I thought we were enthusiasts?

The people who worry most about burning out barrels are folks who don’t actually shoot enough for it to ever matter.

 

[someguy2800]

*nature boy raises his hand*

I develop a new hunting load every season for at least 2 rifles / cartridges.

Why?

1. Because I can
2. Because it’s fun
3. I learn something new each time I do it
4. Shooting my hunting rifles more gives me confidence when it comes to “the moment of truth”

I am in the habit of building a new hunting rifle and working up a load for it every year to keep it fun. That's a habit I think I need to curtail because I have about 10 rifles still waiting to go hunting and its getting a bit ridiculous. One year I brought 7 guns to deer camp lol.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I am in the habit of building a new hunting rifle and working up a load for it every year to keep it fun. That's a habit I think I need to curtail because I have about 10 rifles still waiting to go hunting and its getting a bit ridiculous. One year I brought 7 guns to deer camp lol.

You and Nature Boy both sort of sound like my hunting partner, only he has gear fidelity issues. He will build or buy a new rifle in some new caliber, hunt with it two or three times, sell it, and start over. He does the same with optics as well. Some of it has been amazing. Some has been rather problematic. The thing is, I never know what he will show up with and sometimes it is more than one rifle for a given hunt.

I keep thinking that he is searching for the ultimate combination to get the job done, but have now realized that I was being naive. He doesn't keep the last best rifle until it is bested. He will sell it off in a heartbeat if something new or interesting comes along.