Hunting with 30-30 at 500 yards?

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Thanks for posting that Penguin. I knew vaguely of those but the history and formulas are of value.

Also at 500 rounds you still have over 400 fps of energy to work with with a 170 gr. bullet. Sometimes a good bit more.

tipoc
 
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At 500 yards I want a forward observer to direct my fire .To me that way over the 30/30 practical range . I call 250 yds max for me . Then only with a scope .
 
The .30-30 has,

in the past, killed about as many deer as the later bolt actions. Also, it has probably wounded 10 times as many as it h as killed.
 
Garrobo said:
in the past, killed about as many deer as the later bolt actions. Also, it has probably wounded 10 times as many as it h as killed.
Click to expand...

OK, I don't normally argue rhetoric (as in the art of prose) but I can't let this pass. The cartridge or the weapons that fire them haven't killed a thing since their invention. People have used them to kill deer and misused them to wound. A poor marksman is just as likely to wound with a flat shooting bolt action as they are a 30-30. The difference may be slight but it is important.

There may be operators familiar enough with the weapon system and the limitations to be able to use one at the range mentioned. I am not one of them, I doubt most here are able to as well. Since I do not have that skill, if I were armed with that system I would let the shot pass. Like as not if I had my Enfield I would let the shot pass, not because I cannot operate the weapon at that range but because I'm not convinced of my skill to guarantee my quality at that range. Not with a 30-30, not with a .303, not with a 30-06. Not even with Dad's Barret. I do not possess the skill so it's immoral for me to try. My brother with his old Marlin does have the skill with that weapon. He would likewise pass up the shot, he would give the excuse it would be too far to carry back, it's not a big enough animal or the standard 'I'm just not hungry right now' but the reason would be the same as mine. If he wounded the animal he would have to track it until he could release his responsibility not to cause further suffering to the animal.

The machine can't do and never will do a blinking thing, it's on the operator. Period, end of sentence, end of paragraph, end of statement
 
A second method was to use two wires, each one holding a mild steel rod suspended. When the wires were broken by a bullet, the rods dropped. One wire also held a swinging blade cocked, which was released when the wire was broken.

After firing a shot and breaking the wires, the rods were picked up and the nicks made by the blade measured. The first rod to drop would have its nick farther up the rod than the second. The foruula:

Distance = 1/2 gt^2

was applied to determine the time between the first and second rod dropping, and the time was multiplied by the distance between the wires.
 
Here's some more statements :D

"I can only guess at the extreme range of the .30-30. Held at the proper angle it would probably shoot 2000 or 2500 yards. I do not think that this is what you mean,, however, as a knowledge of the extreme range of a weapon is of little value to any one. I presume you mean the effective range of the arm when used as a gema fun. The .30-30 will do good work up to 600 or 700 yards. One could get good results sometimes at longer ranges, but it is not to be depended on at longer distances than those mentioned."

-Hunter-trader-trapper, Volume 22, Issue 1. 1911

"The most interesting statement in the four-page release is the following paragraph, quoted in full, 'With the new .30-30 Winchester you could kill a deer at 700 yards. That was the most important news about the cartridge to a sportsman or a bread-and-butter shooter who depended on his rifle for his living.' Now, if we were talking about the Western 180-grain bullet at 2700 f.s. muzzle velocity in the .30-'06 cartridge, I would not have questioned that 700-yard deer killing as a distinct possibility [...]"

-American Rifleman, 1945

(on the .25-35) "Winchester recommends its accuracy at 700 yards but this author would like to see any reasonably-sized group shot with a rifle in the lever action class using this cartridge at one-half that range."

-The Rifle in America, 1947 ed.
 
It was not unusual to find a lot of blue sky in claims made in those days -- back when chronographs and pressure-measuring equipment was scarce. I suspect also many experimenters never used some of the loads they recommended. I was working on a load for my .35 Brown-Whelen and contacted someone else who owned one (built on an M1917 action.) His advice was, "Stay away from PO Ackley's data! I tried one shot at his starting load, and you could have reloaded that case with a shotgun primer."

Similarly, when it comes to long-range shots, apparently a lot of people didn't think it was necessary to actually MEASURE the range. I've paced out several "500 yard shots" that turned out to be less than 150 yards.
 
S&W put out a famous ad in the 1930's claiming that a k frame snubby M&P in 38 Spl. could put a round clean through the engine block of a car.

As I said above you can make a shot with the 30-30 (or it's old semi-auto mate the 30 Remington) out to 500 yards and well beyond. At 500 yards it will take a deer.

At that distance it's velocity with a 170 gr. bullet drops off to handgun performance at between 900-1000 fps and between 400-500 ft.pds of energy. Still plenty for deer and some other things. With good sights or a scope and some experience it could be done. But hitting a deer is one thing and a clean kill another.

How's a 30/30 worse than a 7.62x39 or the 300BLK at taking deer?

tipoc
 
Again, arguing the ballistic performance of the round at a given range is moot. The real issue is one of hitting the target consistently enough to ensure a clean kill on a game animal. Given the fact that optics of any kind, much less decent quality optics, were rare in the era discussed, I consider it highly improbable. And definitely questionable ethics.
 
All I can say is anyone shooting at game at 500 yards with the 30-30 darn well shouldn't be. Hitting a target after several feet of drop, with a platform typically capable of 2-3 MOA at best, isn't very likely, regardless of your skill level. When differences of a few yards can result in feet of difference in bullet drop, the proof would be in the pudding for me, and not in an internet post saying it "CAN" be done. Having shot the 30-30 a fair share, I feel I have a realistic grip of its capabilites, beyond my own. But "500" unmeasured, guesstimated yards on a game animal......there are probably very few shooters IN THE WORLD capable of such things, and even then, doubt their consistency given period-specific (1920's) ammo, guns, and sighting equipment.
 
At best the 30/30 is accurate out to 200 yards max. If you want to hit a point target at anything past that distance you need to be extremely optimistic or have a sense of humor. A lever action 30/30 does make a good deer rifle for brush hunting out in the woods though.
 
The story comes to mind that a hunter friend was once telling about getting his big buck some years after the fact. It started out--->

Their I was, I could see his nose twitch and feared I had been detected even though I was about a half mile away as I aimed down the sights at his head and pulled the trigger on dads ole 30-30--------:rolleyes: He was always good at building suspense and keeping his audience riveted to his stories.:cool:
 
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