Hunting with HP Match bullets?

[JackSprat]

I am tempted to order some 30 caliber Hornady 125 gr hp bullets from American Reloader .They are offering 30% off,which makes them $42 dollars per 250 with free shipping..They don't advertise them as match,but I googled them,and think they are because Midway USA list them as match..What characteristics do the hollow point match bullets display,as compared to a varmint hollow point?.I assume they do expand,and as long as they penetrate without fragmenting while expanding I would think they would be an alright medium game (whitetail) bullet..I know Sierra makes the 6 mm 85 gr GameKing HP that is popular for deer,and they make a MatchKing HP .What are the differences in construction of the hollow point match bullets,and the hollow point medium game bullet? is what I'm wondering.

 

[Walkalong]

Match bullets tend to have thin jackets and would act more like an explosive varmint bullet than the thicker jacketed HPs designed for game. I would call and ask Hornady if they think they are suited for game.

 

[rsrocket1]

Match bullets tend to have "hollow points" in order to get full coverage of the jacket on the base rather than "fmj" bullets which leave the center of the base bare lead. They are not made to expand and there is no attempt to keep the core bonded to the jacket (who cares once the paper is punched).

 

[Reloadron]

I would contact Hornady. While I can't speak for Hornady the folks at Sierra make it a point to spell out "Sierra does not recommend Match King bullets for hunting applications". This is for the very reasons Walkalong mentioned in Post #2. My guess is the same will apply to Hornady but I would give them a call or shoot them an email.

Ron

 

[JackSprat]

Thanks folks,If they are not going to be an ethical choice then I won't take a chance with them.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

jacket separation is common, almost guaranteed, and they often flip keyhole into a soft target. Still a lot of, range over velocity and weight will have different affects.

 

[LoonWulf]

Ive used berger "hunting" bullets quite a bit, in a few different calibers, and those are basically match hollow points. Ive also used the .311 174gr Smks from my Nagant sporter. My go to 7mmRM load are 162gr Amax or 160 TMKs.
When i was in high school, I can remember loading a box of 168 otm bullets of some sort in my 06.

Ive had excellent results with all of them, but they MUST be heavy for caliber.
These things come apart fast youll only get 4-6" of initial penetration before they start shedding weight and usually less than 2 feet total. Avoid big bones for the same reason.
I also wouldnt choose one for a large bodied animal where you NEED more than a foot, foot and a half, of penetration, cause you cant garuntee youll get it.

They also have a velocity window I dont like driving them much over 3k, or much slower than 2600. As velocity drops they stop coming apart the way i like, and start opening up just enough for the jacket and core to separate. This causes smaller wound channels that dont result in the extensive soft tissue damage.

In .30 cal, I wouldn't consider using anything less than 165 in a .308, 180 in a 06, to 190+ as the cartridge gets larger.
I also prefer the tipped variants if i can get them. Ive heard, tho never seen, a otm function like an fmj.

Thus i would not consider a 125 for anything 50lbs or larger.

 

[JackSprat]

Ive used berger "hunting" bullets quite a bit, in a few different calibers, and those are basically match hollow points. Ive also used the .311 174gr Smks from my Nagant sporter. My go to 7mmRM load are 162gr Amax or 160 TMKs.
When i was in high school, I can remember loading a box of 168 otm bullets of some sort in my 06.

Ive had excellent results with all of them, but they MUST be heavy for caliber.
These things come apart fast youll only get 4-6" of initial penetration before they start shedding weight and usually less than 2 feet total. Avoid big bones for the same reason.
I also wouldnt choose one for a large bodied animal where you NEED more than a foot, foot and a half, of penetration, cause you cant garuntee youll get it.

They also have a velocity window I dont like driving them much over 3k, or much slower than 2600. As velocity drops they stop coming apart the way i like, and start opening up just enough for the jacket and core to separate. This causes smaller wound channels that dont result in the extensive soft tissue damage.

In .30 cal, I wouldn't consider using anything less than 165 in a .308, 180 in a 06, to 190+ as the cartridge gets larger.
I also prefer the tipped variants if i can get them. Ive heard, tho never seen, a otm function like an fmj.

Thus i would not consider a 125 for anything 50lbs or larger.

My only 30 cal is a 30-06 pump that I have had for several years and never hunted with it,just shot it from the bench.I don't know why I want all my rifles loaded for deer ,even if I don't hunt with them..I have been buying more bullets than I will probably ever shoot since I have started buying pulled bullets in bulk.It seems I can't resist the bargains.I need help.LOL

 

[Orcon]

Match bullets tend to have thin jackets and would act more like an explosive varmint bullet than the thicker jacketed HPs designed for game.

This has not been my experience with light match bullets. The 125gr SMKs virtually pencil hole on prarie dogs, often not killing the target even with clean hits. On coyotes the nose deforms (not unlike a rudder) and they have a proclivity to tumble, creating very unpredictable wound tracks.

 

[redbullitt]

Some hollow point match bullets do very well at the proper velocity. The 210, 215, and 230 berger bullets to VERY well on game, but many match bullets do not react the same way. A SMK style bullet tends to be less predictable for example. Just depends on what you are shooting and what you are shooting at!

 

[LoonWulf]

My only 30 cal is a 30-06 pump that I have had for several years and never hunted with it,just shot it from the bench.I don't know why I want all my rifles loaded for deer ,even if I don't hunt with them..I have been buying more bullets than I will probably ever shoot since I have started buying pulled bullets in bulk.It seems I can't resist the bargains.I need help.LOL

Ive got some 150 or so165 speers btsps that my 06 isnt a fan of if you want them. Set up a load for those, put em on the shelf, then shoot your 125s mostly.

 

[JackSprat]

Ive got some 150 or so165 speers btsps that my 06 isnt a fan of if you want them. Set up a load for those, put em on the shelf, then shoot your 125s mostly.

Yea I will take them,do you have a 7 mm,or 6 mm of some sort?I have plenty of 140,and 95 gr Fusions I can seen you in trade if you want.

 

[LoonWulf]

I have both ill hit u up on pm when i get home, but that sounds good.

 

[JackSprat]

Ok that sounds good. I live in the Eastern time zone,so I wont be up too much longer,but If you give me your address,and what ratio of 6mm,and 7 mm you want I will get them I will get them in tha mail..thanks

 

[Walkalong]

This has not been my experience with light match bullets. The 125gr SMKs virtually pencil hole on prarie dogs, often not killing the target even with clean hits. On coyotes the nose deforms (not unlike a rudder) and they have a proclivity to tumble, creating very unpredictable wound tracks.

I wouldn't consider them "game" as they are soft and offer little resistance. Either way, most match bullets were not intended for hunting, none of them were not so long ago, and I would be cautious about using them when we. Have so many good choices in game bullets. After all, we are not looking for cheap blasting bullets or plinking bullets where we will go through a lot of them. We're talking hunting bullets where we won't use many and the cost per bullet is not nearly as important.

I'd call Hornady and ask, they'll know whether they are suited or not.

 

[rayatphonix]

I've used Nosler BTHP in my 25-06 for years because I got a bunch with the rifle. I hunt southern deer and they're devastating. I've never had a deer run more than 40 or 50 yards. Exit wound is often golf ball sized. Not to sound like a broken record, but it's all in the shot placement.

That said, when I purchase hunting bullets I usually go with bullets designed for hunting. This years I'm trying Berger "classic hunter" which seems to be very similar to a BTHP design.

 

[ants]

Go to Hornady web site and look it up. Cut-n-paste from web site:

APPLICATION
ITEM # 30192 30 Cal. .308" HP 125 GR
Varmint < 50 lb


It's not a match bullet. It's a traditional varmint bullet.

 

[climbnjump]

Ive used berger "hunting" bullets quite a bit, in a few different calibers, and those are basically match hollow points

Well, Berger manufactures both hunting and match bullets, of course. While their hunting bullets look very much like their match bullets, they are not the same and Berger recommends that their match bullets NOT be used for hunting.

I don't know about other manufacturers' match bullets, but Berger match bullets have THICKER jackets than their hunting and varmint bullets. Their explanation is as follows:

What is the difference between your bullet types? (Target/Tactical/Varmint/Hunting)

Our Target and Tactical bullets are designed with thicker jackets that withstand more stress before bullet degradation occurs. A target or tactical shooter generally fires multiple rounds in a row, causing the barrel to heat up and more stress on bullet. To keep performance high, we give these bullets thicker jackets.


Our Varmint and Hunting bullets have slightly thinner jackets. This means that the bullet will expand more effectively, creating a large wound cavity that devastates the animal using hydrostatic shock. Hunters generally shoot 1-3 bullets at a time, so bullet degradation is not as much of a concern as expansion.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/faq-frequently-asked-questions/

While this isn't exactly a scientific or definitive "study", I have shot water filled milk jugs at 400 yards with both their hunting and match bullets of the same weight in the same caliber (105 gr in .243 Win). The hunting bullets did explode the jugs, the match bullets just punched holes and didn't even blow the caps off the jugs.

 

[JackSprat]

Go to Hornady web site and look it up. Cut-n-paste from web site:

APPLICATION
ITEM # 30192 30 Cal. .308" HP 125 GR
Varmint < 50 lb


It's not a match bullet. It's a traditional varmint bullet.

Thanks American Reloader just has them listed as Hornady 308 cal.125 gr hollow points..I bet they are devestating on varmints..

 

[Captcurt]

This has not been my experience with light match bullets. The 125gr SMKs virtually pencil hole on prarie dogs, often not killing the target even with clean hits. On coyotes the nose deforms (not unlike a rudder) and they have a proclivity to tumble, creating very unpredictable wound tracks.

I have a friend who used the 168gr match hp in his 30-06. Don't remember the brand. One would go through a deer and not open up and the next would blow up. Very inconsistent.

 

[LoonWulf]

Well, Berger manufactures both hunting and match bullets, of course. While their hunting bullets look very much like their match bullets, they are not the same and Berger recommends that their match bullets NOT be used for hunting.

I don't know about other manufacturers' match bullets, but Berger match bullets have THICKER jackets than their hunting and varmint bullets. Their explanation is as follows:



While this isn't exactly a scientific or definitive "study", I have shot water filled milk jugs at 400 yards with both their hunting and match bullets of the same weight in the same caliber (105 gr in .243 Win). The hunting bullets did explode the jugs, the match bullets just punched holes and didn't even blow the caps off the jugs.

Ive used both hunting and match versions. In fact I started using bergers right before they launched the hunting line. I believe they may have ALL had thinner jackets then.
Performance on game with the Match bullets was very similar, even with more recent lots (couldnt get the hunting versions).
But my shots were rather short so velocity was still quite high, and ive heard that folks have had issues with the bergers poke pencil holes as well.
Given how available they USUALLY are i dont see any real reason to use the match type bergers....unless you need the thicker jacket to cope with much higher velocity maybe.

My experience with Hornady Amaxes and Hpbt, is that they are a very soft bullet. This may have changed with the newest line up as they have been updating stuff for the last few years. If they kept the AMP jackets the same, then id guess the performance will still be the same.

The only sierras otms ive used are those 311s, and they performed well but again shots were short/shortish, and they were driven pretty hard, so impact velocity was still pretty high. Ive heard of guys getting pencil holes with these as well, they also MAY have thicker jackets than the standard seirra game bullets....which are usually pretty tough bullets in and of themselves.
The Sierra 160 TMKs launched from my 7rem perform almost exactly like a 162 Amax, which i believe might have more to do with the plastic tip than the bullets jacket. Thats one of the reasons I consider the tipped bullets better options than the otms, except the bergers specifically designed for hunting.

End of the day tho with so many good options in game bullets, now I really only consider the match types when they shoot alot better than any of the common hunting bullets in a particular rifle....and again one has to take game being shot at into consideration.

 

[Sunray]

Match bullets have thick jackets that are of very consistent thickness and are not made to expand at all. They are absolutely not suitable for hunting anything but varmints. Good bullets for hide hunting coyotes, etc.
Hornady doesn't currently list a .30 cal 125 grain Match bullet and no HP that is not a varmint bullet. Varmint bullets have the thin jackets and are designed to expand rapidly upon impact. You'll see tiny grooves on a varmint bullet near the point that helps do that. Match bullets don't have that.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

This has not been my experience with light match bullets. The 125gr SMKs virtually pencil hole on prarie dogs, often not killing the target even with clean hits. On coyotes the nose deforms (not unlike a rudder) and they have a proclivity to tumble, creating very unpredictable wound tracks.

If there were no difference Sierra wouldn't make two bullets. MatchKing bullets are designed by very smart people as a match bullet and the GameKing bullets designed for taking game. Hunters should not take a chance on not taking game cleanly, the animals deserve a quick kill. Besides, the MatchKing bullets usually cost more than the GameKing bullets so there is no real reason not to use the correct bullet.

 

[Reloadron]

Match bullets have thick jackets that are of very consistent thickness and are not made to expand at all. They are absolutely not suitable for hunting anything but varmints. Good bullets for hide hunting coyotes, etc.
Hornady doesn't currently list a .30 cal 125 grain Match bullet and no HP that is not a varmint bullet. Varmint bullets have the thin jackets and are designed to expand rapidly upon impact. You'll see tiny grooves on a varmint bullet near the point that helps do that. Match bullets don't have that.

I was curious about this jacket thickness and decided to shoot a quick email to Sierra (The Bulletshiths) to get something factual. Now in the case of Sierra I asked the question which bullets have the thicker jacket between a Match King and a Game King of the same caliber and weight class. Sierra was quick with a reply.
Hi Ron,

The Gameking has the thicker jacket.

So in the case of Sierra the hunting bullet has the thicker jacket. I did not email any other bullet manufacturers other than Sierra. My experience has been when questions like this arise the best information comes from the guys making the product. There is much, much more to the difference between a Match bullet verse a Hunting bullet but as to jacket thickness the best answer comes from the guy making the stuff.

Ron

 

[Reloadron]

Got feedback from Hornady today:

Mr. Blain,


Thank you for the email. The Hunting bullets will have a thicker jacket as they are designed to retain their weight to get maximum penetration and expansion.


Thank you,

JH

I figure that is good enough but anyone else may want to email other manufacturers such as Berger or Speer. The Hornady response pretty much runs with the discussion. I believe it always will come down to choosing the best possible bullet for the intended application.

Ron