Hurt myself shooting the other day: Need Advice

[Loach]

I've decided to take up turkey hunting this spring. I've been hunting other game for some time, but have never hunted birds of any kind. Anyhow, I picked up some turkey loads, 3" magnums by Winchester and Remington to pattern the new Extra Full choke tube I got for my 870 and headed to the range on Sunday afternoon.

So I set up a turkey patterning target at 30 yards and took a sitting stance, took the gun off safety, got my breathing right and lightly squeezed the trigger. The next thing I know, my head is ringing and my cheek feels like someone punched me in the face. Turns out someone had ... me. My right thumb (I'm right handed) crosses the back of the stock and my head comes pretty far down on the comb (is that the right term) of the stock. The intense recoil shoved my thumb onto my cheek right below my right eye with such force that today I look like I was in a fist fight! As if that wasn't enough, I tried it again and the same thing happened. Only this time my cheek was already sore so it hurt even worse!

I've tried adjusting my grip a little, but it seems that it just doesn't feel natural to hold it any other way. For my last two patterns, I held it with my right thumb laying against the right side of the stock just to avoid further facial injury! This was never a problem when shooting clays because the loads are much lighter.

Anyhow, I can't figure out if I'm holding the gun wrong or if it just doesn't fit right. I think I would have noticed if it didn't fit since I've not had any trouble with clays and it just 'feels right'. Perhaps I need different sights? Perhaps if I add a thicker recoil pad (like the pachmayer), it'll add 1/2" to 3/4" to the stock length which might keep my thumb far enough from my face? It might take some getting used to, but hey, it's hard to explain the bruises at work!

Anyone have a similar problem? What did you do to correct it? A new stock wouldn't be out of the question. I've been considering replacing it with a camo or synthetic one anyhow since this one has such blond wood that it stands out and attracts unwanted attention from our gobbling friends.

 

[HSMITH]

What is your height, weight, and build type (pear, muscleman, average etc)? Has the stock ever been cut shorter or is it just like Remington made it?

A rough guess without enough information would be that you are putting your FACE to the stock, and not the STOCK to your face. If you are not shooting with your head staight up just like you would ride a bike you are not mounting the shotgun conrrectly. 90% of shotgunners do it that way. Fit of the shotgun cannot be determined until your mount is good.

IF YOU PUT THE BUTT OF THE SHOTGUN TO YOUR SHOULDER AND THEN PUT YOUR HEAD DOWN TO MEET THE STOCK YOU ARE NOT MOUNTING THE SHOTGUN CORRECTLY. Caps for emphasis, it is important. Instead you need to put the stock to your face with the barrel under your eye and THEN SLIDE THE BUTTT STRAIGHT BACK the 1/2 to 1" it is going to take to plant the butt somewhere on your shoulder. If you do this there is a 99% chance that dirty (we can't say it cause this is a family channel) is not going to smack you again. I met him once or twice and he hits HARD LOL . Before I learned better ways I learned to keep my darn thumb on the other side of the stock!!

 

[yankytrash]

Get a pistol gripped stock, like the ones offered by Chaote, you'll never go back to a standard.

 

[Badger Arms]

It sounds like you are shooting the gun with your head WAY too far forward. The solution to this might be a higher comb stock, say the types you'd expect to see on a rifle. You could also get a thicker recoil pad. Bottom line is that it's a stock-fit problem but certainly one that can be corrected. Pistol-gripped stocks would solve one of your problems, but are not as aestetically pleasing or unobtrusive as a thicker recoil pad or perhaps a spacer would be.

 

[RCL]

Loach, I have an 870 and it kicks me about the same with turkey loads. I'll usually hit myself in the nose with the bottom nuckle of my thumb. Keep in mind that you are shooting a fairly lite gun with about the hardest recoiling load you can use in a shotgun. Most turkey loads usually throw 2 ounces (almost 1000 grains) of lead down the tube at around 1300 fps. Thats right up there with some pretty hard kicking rifles.
Upgrade your recoil pad and mount the gun as HSMITH suggested and things should improve for you.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Fit and form are the two big reasons why shotgunning can hurt, Magnumitis is a secondary reason.

First, the software. Work on your form, and do as H said. I also recommend firing the next few howitzer loads standing up. Our bodies aren't smart, without a doubt you've an incipient flinch a-building. Shooting a few standing up will tell your body this can be done without hurting.

Second, the hardware. For range testing and pattening heavy loads, add some weight to that 870. A loaded SideSaddle and/or a few rounds in the magazine will blunt that kick. A wearable pad like the PAST is valuable here also.

As for Magnumitis, there's probably a 1 1/2 oz load out there that will punch as many holes in the head/neck area as those 2 oz Penance loads. Check them out.

HTH....

 

[9mmMike]

I am surprised that no one mentioned this yet but of course I could be insane.....
I had a similar problem (not as severe) shooting my straight-stocked Marlin 336 when I took it out for the first time.
The problem was that I was sitting at the bench to shoot.
I noticed in your post that you were also sitting. Dave McC has mentioned before that patterning at a bench can be a painful but necessary adventure.
Try shooting while standing. You do this when you bust clays and never have an issue right?
When I tried my 336 while upright, it was fine.
Mike

edited to add. If I'd actually read Dave's post above I would have seen that he already suggested shooting while standing. Sorry. :banghead:

 

[Badger Arms]

Instead you need to put the stock to your face with the barrel under your eye and THEN SLIDE THE BUTTT STRAIGHT BACK the 1/2 to 1" it is going to take to plant the butt somewhere on your shoulder.

You've peaked my interest. Am I built incorrectly? When I do as you suggest, the shotgun stock is only touching my shoulder for about two or three inches. How far down should I lean my head. Now, I don't lean so hard as to touch my thumb with my cheek, but it's still a little far down the stock. Never had a problem with the magnum loads though.

 

[Poodleshooter]

I do this to myself periodically too, so don't feel bad. I was patterning some turkey reloads yesterday, and noticed that when patterning I really have to shove my head down on the stock in order to get a proper alignment. Mostly this is bad shotgun fit, but I never notice it, as I ignore the beads when wingshooting and simply mount the stock to my head. When patterning, I'm lining up both beads on the rib, and to do that I have to place my head low and squeeze in closer to the wrist of the stock. When I do that, I'm mounting my face to the gun.
I guess it's part of the whole tighter choking issue, scopes on turkey shotguns,etc.
This also happens with slugs.

 

[Loach]

Thanks for all the good information!!

HSMITH, I'm 5'10" 210lbs and of medium build, with a belly. I used to blame beer, but now that I don't drink, I blame my desk job...

You guys are right about the sitting vs standing bit. I 'played' around with my stance a little and determined that when I'm sitting or kneeling, I tend to crunch up and it puts my face farther forward on the stock than it does if I'm standing. Probably becuase I'm resting my left elbow on my knee and that holds the gun lower than it would be otherwise, forcing me down on the stock. In any case, though, in order to get a clear sight picture down the rib, my cheek has to touch the comb. I'm going to evaulate some other stocks, though as I think this one is a tad short. I taped a 1" block of wood to the butt and raised the gun to my shoulder a few times and the block never clipped my armpit. Any recommendations on a longer stock with a higher comb than that which comes with a stock 870? Price IS an object, I'd like to keep it under $75 or so.

 

[9mmMike]

This is one of the reasons that I like my rifle-sighted barrels. The sites are a little higher and much easier for me to align without moving my head down.
If you want to get a higher comb on the cheap, the factory Monte Carlo's are pretty high of comb and inexpensive. This will, of course, raise your "rear site" and likely your POI considerably.
Mike

 

[Al Thompson]

Hey Loach, I was over at the Wal-Mart on Harbison and they have a black slip on recoil pad that might work. It's about another inch longer.

 

[Dave McCracken]

The Monte Carlo stock on the 870 TB here fits my cheekbone right into the top of the comb. Little drop if any is needed to get a solid weld.

This can be duplicated using moleskin, masking tape or one of the CheekEze pads to raise the comb to a better height. Add material and shoot it until it's comfortable and you're hitting where you want. COP a little above flat on works well on turkey. Be careful that you do not let the padding lap over onto the side of the comb, or you'll be building in some cast.

Also, when mounting make sure ALL the pad is in contact with the cup of the shoulder. I see lots of folks with some butt sticking up over the shoulder. This reduces the area to absorb the kick and increases the Ouch Factor greatly. That's what Badger's talking about. A cheek weld below the notch of the cheek and pressing on the jaw bone may be called for, depending on your build.

HTH....

 

[HSMITH]

You've peaked my interest. Am I built incorrectly?

Nope, but your shotgun is. The 870 fits me the same way. The first thing I do to an 870 is put a Morgan Adjustable pad on it, drop it to the lowest setting, and tighten it down. That is all it takes to make an 870 fit me, you may be easier or harder. You need a higher comb or more drop in the stock or both.

Mouse pad works great for investigating increasing comb heights. Tape a thickness on the stock, then another and another and another until you get it working right, then you kin getchu summa dat purty cameoflage duk tape and may kit pernamint, or talk to your gunsmith about some alternatives.

 

[ftw46]

I went thru the same thing with a synthetic stocked 870 express with a 23" barrel and extra full turkey choke. It almost broke my neck. I simply could not hold it tight enough to keep it from twisting out of my right hand.
I think it is mainly in the shape of the stock and also the light weight. I did not want to add weight as I carry it a long way in the turkey woods.
I did add the Limbsaver recoil pad from SVL. I got it from cabela's and it did really soften the recoil. It was a prefit pad that went right on. I think it was $29.00.

 

[riverdog]

Another alternative that may be effective is to get some Cheekeeze from Brownell's and add some cushioned height to the comb. YMMV, I haven't tried it yet.

 

[sm]

Good thread

As one always harping about gun fit (regardless of platform) I think HSMITH and Dave nailed it.

Good point about STOCK to face

Loads: big believer in PB's. NOT a believer in magmunitis loads--well don't always pattern that well. My sighting is done standing -usually. I sight according to use. On those rare occasions I bench rest, Past vest, shoulder pad, or both a great help. Note: this will change LOP therefore I check without, POA/POI could be affected. In other words, I sight according to how I will use the shotty.

Took a turkey years ago, old farmer had a bad shot but took it, darn thing went to flying...not for long though.

My reloads of 2 /34 shells 1/14 oz of hard as woodpecker lips shot in # 5's . Not really a turkey load, didn't know I was going to shoot a turkey, just tagging along , riding the farm. I had these loads in my truck and knew how they patterned. Shotgun needed something in it, they worked. About 40 steps in flight , good head shot and PLOP, DRT.

Farmer only had one hit -low of breast area...

 

[Loach]

9mmMike was nice enough to send me a Monte Carlo stock for it and it worked great! I was out to the range last weekend and did not injure myself at all. The gun just plain fits better now. I was able to find a matching fore-end at a gun show on Sunday and with the addition of the Fiber-optic sights I bought a few weeks ago, it's a real Turkey-getter! Thanks Mike! and thanks to all you gave such great advice!

 

[Dave McCracken]

Great!! And Mike, Kudos. When finally we meet, the coffee's on me.

 

[HSMITH]

EXCELLENT Loach, fit makes a world of difference. Now you too can harp on the beneFITS to those not in the know

Dang, dumb pun but oh well.......

 

[hunter44]

This has been an excellent "learning" thread. I too have gaind from it. It is comforting to know that while waiting for a hand-on shotgun trainer, one can have his questions and problems addressed by experienced members who are always willing and ready to guide us starters. I am glad to be in good company of THR after TFL. Kudos to all that responded to Loach's request for help and thanks a lot.

 

[Guyon]

Same thing happened to me with a 3.5" magnum, but I haven't had the same problem with any of the 3" loads.

I agree with others here that a good cheek weld is imperative.

I do have Pachmayr slip-on butt pads on all my Remingtons. Number one, they cut down the recoil just a bit. Number two, they make the guns "fit" me just about right. With the added LOP, the bead on the vent-rib lines up the way it is supposed to--not as critical on a turkey gun with sights, but muy importante on my upland bird guns.

 

[Arcli9ht]

I took the old Moss. 500 out today and put about 100 rounds through it. 25 Target loads to start out, then 50 hunting shells, for wingshooting, then 25 3" turkey shells (OUCH).
My arm can barely move, but I can't wait to do it again next weekend... or the next time I can afford this many shotshells.

I finally got to practice the correct way to bring up a shotgun and I appreciate the info I read above (bring the gun to your eyes, then settle it in.) and more importantly got to pattern it for turkey hunting.

/Arcli9ht