Hypothetical: Making a Room Bullet Proof

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bulgron

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Before I get into this, let me be clear that I have no intention of trying to make a room bullet proof. I live in a very safe city where gun shots are never heard. There's simply no reason to try and bullet proof a room where I live.

Still ....

Since this last January I've been in the process of remodeling my house one room at a time. As a part of this remodel, I've been taking sheetrock down, re-running electrical circuits, insulating exterior walls (and in some cases interior walls for sound proofing), then putting the walls back up again.

Naturally, I can't help but wonder what I would do if I wanted to make one of my rooms bullet proof. Call it idle speculation. :D

The house is 2x4 construction with a stucco exterior. We're also on a slab. My big concern is the complete lack of insulation in my walls, so if possible I'd want to save space for R13 insulation.

One big problem would be that all rooms (except the bathrooms) have a large window, which obviously couldn't be bullet proofed without getting into big dollars.

How would you do this, if you were to attempt it?

I'm thinking that for interior walls, I might want to put in a kevlar liner of some kind, like the stuff they make flak vests out of. I don't know how heavy that material gets, though. Can it reasonably be hung from the studs?

For exterior walls, I'm thinking steel plates from the floor to the bottom of the window would do the trick. I mean, is there any point in going higher than the bottom of the window, considering that the window itself is not bullet proof?

The idea here would be that if you "hit the deck" the plates would protect you from bullets coming from the outside of your house. Question is, how thick do they need to be? Would 1/8" do it or do you have to go to 1/4"? Or do you need to go thicker still?

1/8" would save weight and money, and would be thin enough to allow normal rolls of insulation to be put into the walls. But I'm not sure if 1/8" steel plates behind stucco is enough to stop most modern small arms.

Again, this is just idle speculation on my part. But it is something I'd look into if I lived in a neighborhood where shootings were common.

Has anyone out there ever thought about doing this, or actually done it?

Man, the weird ideas that pop into your head when you're shoving insulation into walls....
 
There are a couple of companies that make ballistic panels for just this sort of thing, they cost a fortune though. Heres an example, a 4x8 panel for around $1300.
Flexible Kevlar Ballistic Panel:
Specification UL-752 REV.9 NIJ0108.01
Rated: UL-752 Levels 1-2-3-& 6 and NIJ Level IIIA

Weight: 1.1 lb Sq.Ft
Nominal Thickness: 7/32 inch /5.55 (mm)

Weapon & Bullet Description:
44 Magnum. 240gr SWC
9mm 124gr FMJ
Impact Velocity:
1400 ft/sec - 426(m/sec) for both

http://www.armorco.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=221
 
I don't think mild steel 1/4 plate would even come close to handling a modern rifle bullet . .now if it had 2 inches of sand in front of it . ..it "might" but even then I'm not too sure. I had a friend who just bought a new plasma cutter cut out some animal shapes of 1/2 inch thick 'mild' steel and a 7.62 x39 went almost all the way through. (The bullet tip was sticking out the back but it didn't completely penetrate). This was at 50 yards. FWIW. Now if you went with the stronger steels that they use to make HV targets then I'm sure you could make something up . . .I think the cost would kill you though. Do a google search . . I seem to recall a thread here that referenced a survivalist site or some such where they built sand filled walls on 2x6 or 2x8 construction and had pretty good results.
 
Sand filled walls is the cheapest route I would think. Must be more than sheetrock to hold the weight though.
 
dmftoy, I don't know that I'd be wanting to stop a rifle bullet. Pretty much for an urban scenario, handgun rounds would be the big concern. Here I'm thinking about the studies that show some police forces having only an 8% hit rate (or something ridiculous like that) in gun battles. And then there's your basic drive bys which are, again, usually done with semi-auto handguns. At least, as far as I know.

Walkalong, the sand filled walls is a good idea, except I don't know what kind of R value that has. :D That said, my father-in-law in Tucson has a double cinder-block construction on part of his house, with the space between the cinder-blocks being dead air. I always thought that if I move to Tucson, and had the money, I'd build my house this way. Would it make sense to fill the dead space between the blocks with sand? It's a heck of a thought.

Browningguy, those ballistic panels are fascinating. I wonder what you use to cut them with. $41/sqft is steep, but if I think about lining a small bedroom with them up to about 4' in height, maybe not so bad.

Of course, the big question is, if you've got the kind of money necessary to reinforce a room like this, what are you doing living in a place where gunfire frequently happens in the first place?

Still, I have an odd mind that likes to work through these kind of problems. Thanks for the replies everyone!
 
Ebay is where the search ends.

There is a guy on Ebay selling some type of clear bullet proof sections of a very thick transparent material. A former convienance store owner, these panels where constructed in a steel gridwork of sorts. I tried to get him to sell me a 2' x 5' section and was turned down as he says shipping would be too expensive as the material is very dense and heavy. I will try to see if I can find his ebay store and post the name for you. Bare with me here as this took place several months ago. In the mean time you might try a search of your own using terms like : ballistic, hardened material.... bullit proof etc. I can't remember what I myself used but do remember I found it almost by accident. I also seem to remember that he is located somewhere out west. Hope this helps.
 
We build panic rooms, most of which are bullet proof (resistant).

In most cases you are limited to steel plate, concrete, or ballistic materials specifically designed for that task. Of those three options, concrete tends to be the least expensive.

Although I did not sell or install it, I was delivering some safes the other day to a house under construction. They had installed an automatic door that would seal off the hallway leading to the master bedroom. This door was of level 4 construction, and approximately 6 foot wide by 10 foot tall. Cost of the door $30,000.
 
My house walls are already bullet proof.

Can't do anything about windows.

With standard frame construction I would suggest gravel. Remove the dry wall and affix either panneling or 1/2'' plywood internally (pylwood if you want to put dry wall back up). Fill the wall with gravel.

Inject foam insulation in the wall by drilling holes along the wall and inserting the nozzel about every 12''. Alternatively you could layer the foam/gravel every 6'' and drop the gravel on top of the ''wet'' foam. When the foam hardens you will have a wall that is very stiff but when struck by a bullet will crumble internally and fill in new holes. Also it will be around R20 (depending on the width of the wall). Replace the dry wall.

Try this out with a mock up wall first of at least four feet high. I bet you will be quite pleased with the results.
 
If you were really going to do something like that, wouldn't it be more cost-effective just to armor up your safe room and its door?
 
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I'm not an engineer or anything, but if I was going to attempt to bubbify my home into something bullet roof (or resistant), I'd use cinder blocks filled with sand, sandwiched between 1/4" steel plate for the exterior. On the interior side of the wall, I'd do a facade of standard 2x4 & sheetrock construction with for insulation. Of course, I don't know if that's okay with building codes. A lot of this stuff is best done during new construction, and be sure to install plenty of electrical outlets as well as at least 2 jacks each for: coax, phone, and ethernet per room. You may also need cell phone repeaters. Oh yes, and plenty of money.

Company's sell products specifically designed for windows. Usually they're of laminate construction, not sure if they're available as traditional double hung windows.

I'd want to be sure it withstood 5.56 NATO, 7.62x39 (AK), and .308 Win at the very least since they are probably the most likely rifle rounds you'd encounter. It'd be nice if it could hold up against .30-06 or .300 Win Mag.

Titan6 has an interesting solution.
 
Titan6 has the cheapest approach. It does not take much gravel to stop a bullet. A friend has the critical wall dry stacked with bricks between plywood.

Every other approach described, you better be armoring to protect your Picasso, 'cause that is the price range involved.
 
how about pea gravel AND sand? the sand will fill the spaces between the gravel, making for a more dense mixture.
 
Titon6 said:
Inject foam insulation in the wall by drilling holes along the wall and inserting the nozzel about every 12''. Alternatively you could layer the foam/gravel every 6'' and drop the gravel on top of the ''wet'' foam. When the foam hardens you will have a wall that is very stiff but when struck by a bullet will crumble internally and fill in new holes. Also it will be around R20 (depending on the width of the wall). Replace the dry wall.

In my 2x4 construction, the best rolled insulation that I can install is R13. It almost sounds like you're saying gravel + wet foam results in a better R value, plus it's bullet proof. Or are you assuming 2x6 construction?

I find this to be a fascinating conversation, btw.

As for people who would want to build to stop rifle rounds, may I ask why? Is it because you live in rural areas with hunters firing rifles in and around your house?

As I noted up-thread, I don't see a lot of drive-by shootings that involve higher-powered rifles in urban areas. Even the cops tend to get into gun battles with their handguns. It's a very rare event in the city for the police to start shooting rifles and shotguns in such a panicked manner than I'd be worried about errant rounds.

Of course, if you're building so as to resist rifle-wielding zombies, well, then a lot of your arguments make perfect sense.... :D
 
Rifle wielding zombies, rifle weilding Mongol Hordes, rifle wielding goblins, rifle wielding good guys who can't shoot straight, all kinds of possibilities. While we're fantasizing, might as well get all the way into it, right?

You might consider an underground exit, as well. Even if your walls are built out of leftover battleship parts, you're still out of luck if the Rifle Wielding Zombies call in the Artillery Wielding Zombies, or even the Bomb Dropping Zombies. :D
 
The folks who make "earth ships" pack old tires with dirt. I don't know how good the R value is supposed to be, but I bet they would stop pistol rounds at least.
 
You can get the bedliner stuff in a can and apply it yourself.
http://www.herculiner.com/
I'm not sure how well it really would stop a bullet, but it might at least slow it down or cause it to deform, especially a handgun round. Maybe you could paint/spray it on the inside of any drywall you put up, creating a double layer effect.

Edit:
I just read the Linex page.
Could the LINE-X product save lives at the Pentagon in the event of another terrorist bombing? “Absolutely” said Scott Jewett, General Manager of LFDC. “Recent Air Force tests on the coating confirm that the XS350 polymer actually prevents concrete from breaking apart in an explosion.”
Interesting stuff there. I'd imagine the same effect would happen with a bullet. Don't use the Linex as an exterior surface, but on the interor to absorb a bullet. HHmmmm interesting.
 
If I had it torn apart anyway,

I'd pick a room that suited me best as far as location and size, then line it with 2X6 filled with sand. If you used an interior room, insulation wouldn't be a factor. An interior room would also be less likely to have windows. The extra thickness of the 2X6 and sand framing would allow you to put two doors with some pretty impressive deadbolts. Hanging them in opposite directions should let you swing them both inward, letting you use the dookickeys they sell to block them from the bottom.
 
Anybody ever shot seasoned oak? I have never tryed shooting it, but if you have ever tryed to drive a nail in it,...it's got to be bullit proof.

If it worked like I suspect, you could get old barn wood and line the inside.
 
If your current construction is 2x4 exterior walls with stucco, my guess is you're living in Arizona or Nevada. If so, you are fortunate to have a skilled labor pool to bulletproof your house in the cheapest possible manner. Here's your wall construction:

--CMU walls
--Stucco Exterior cladding, INSIST on 3.4 lb expanded metal lath and a full 7/8" of stucco. For insulation, attach 2-4" of extruded polystyrene before stucco application.
--You can then either plaster, fur & frame, or stucco your interior walls.

This construction, including insulation, will perform at about R40 and protect you from anything up to about tank shells.

Have fun!
 
Interesting thread.

I gotta tell ya those old steel bathtubs come in handy. And how many of us have old vests lying around? perhaps it could be as simple as lining a wall with a few of them. You already paid for the protection so it won't cost a thing. Just a thought. I think I must have spent too much time watching the Red Green show. LOL

Shooter429
 
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