Hypothetical New Jersey Question:

[BADUNAME4]

What if, suddenly, the entire nation adopted all of New Jersey's laws and policies on everything and began being run exactly as New Jersey's currently being run?

 

[Preacherman]

I'd move to Iraq...

At least I can own an AK-47 there!

 

[raz-0]

well, gun control would be a non-issue. The food riots and economic collapse would pretty much prevent any hope of enforcing gun laws.

New Jersey is like Mr. Burns in that episode of the simpsons. We only continue to function because of a precariously balanced system of corruption, idiocy, and laziness. It took a long time to get here, and I don't think the rest of the country could take an overnight change.

 

[cuchulainn]

Among other things, no one would be allowed to pump their own gasoline. N.J. bans self-serve pumps. Seriously. No joke.

...which means gas prices would rise even farther to pay the salaries of all the pimply 10th graders pumping it.

 

[waterhouse]

Cuch, not only do they pump your gas for you, but as of last month they had the cheapest price per gallon in the U.S.

I was shocked to go visit family up there and find that it was a couple cents cheaper than in TX. Everyone did look at me a little strangely when I got out of my car to try to pump my own gas, and the attendant told me I was breaking the law. I have to admit it was kind of fun, I felt very wealthy with my own personal gas butler

 

[WT]

MY attendant also cleans the windshield and checks the oil.

They do look the other way when you pump gas into your Harley.

 

[cuchulainn]

Cuch, not only do they pump your gas for you, but as of last month they had the cheapest price per gallon in the U.S.

Well, they certainly don't have the cheapest prices this week -- http://198.6.95.31/sbsavg.asp

In any event, imagine how much cheaper their prices would have been if they weren't inflated by the need for extra salaries. Not to mention the slowed volume of sales -- attendants simply cannot push through as many customers as self-serve pumps can.

I have to admit it was kind of fun, I felt very wealthy with my own personal gas butler

Good thing you weren't in a hurry.

 

[WT]

Service is quite prompt in NJ. All the attendants have bachelor's degrees in computer science.

 

[newman32]

NJ is a bizarre place, to get more bizarre when Sen. Corzine becomes our Gov. Anyway, I got my gas nicely pumped for me this morning for $1.93/gal of regular. On my trip to NH last week, none of the states I passed through had cheaper gas than here in NJ.

I also believe that NJ is not the worst of the states to be in as a gun owner. Certainly not the best, but not the worst of the worst either. Maybe like 46 or 47 out of 50.

 

[cuchulainn]

Service is quite prompt in NJ. All the attendants have bachelor's degrees in computer science.

Yes, I'm sure the workers do a very good job. The effects of the law aren't their fault. Nonetheless, they still can't move gas out of the station as fast as can self-serve pumps.

On my trip to NH last week, none of the states I passed through had cheaper gas than here in NJ.

And your gas would be even cheaper if not for this law.

Self-serve drives down prices. It's an economic fact. The more people you must pay to deliver a product, the more the consumer will pay. The more you slow down delivery (and attendants are slower than self-serve), the more you have to charge. That's why self-serve exists everywhere else (except Oregon, IIRC).

The link I posted above shows New Jersey at about the middle of the pack, price-wise. If N.J. is the lowest in the northeast, that's probably a factor of its proximity to in-bound shipping.

If the other states enacted a N.J.-like ban on self serve, their prices would go up.

 

[WT]

I have to disagree a little.

Pump sales price = f(refinery price + transportation + federal sales taxes + state sales taxes + dealers costs and profits).

A dealer may have higher than the national average personnel costs but state sales taxes could be less than the national average, balancing things out.

 

[cuchulainn]

I have to disagree a little.

Pump sales price = f(refinery price + transportation + federal sales taxes + state sales taxes + dealers costs and profits).

And in New Jersey, you must add the salaries of all the extra attendants to that equation. It's one more price-raising variable that other states don't need to deal with. Yes, you're lucky that the other variables currently work in your favor to keep your overall cost in the middle of pack.

A dealer may have higher than the national average personnel costs but state sales taxes could be less than the national average, balancing things out.

I think you're missing the point. The point is not that New Jersey has the highest gas prices because of this law. It's that the law raises prices -- and the law is unnecessary.

Economic fact: You would pay less for gas in N.J. if the unnecessary law did not exist.

Economic fact: If my state passed such an unnecessary law, I would pay more for gas.

Just because your overall cost is in the middle of the pack doesn't mean the law is OK -- and it doesn't mean the law doesn't cost you money.

It does cost you money. And for what?

 

[countertop]

Actually, the variable your missing in the equation is insurance costs. From what I remember (I grew up in Jersey but left in 1990) when the debate arose while I was in high school someone figured that the cost would stay the same or even be lower for a station owner - as a result in reduced insurance costs - from having their employees pump gas as opposed to running the risk of someone else pump gas. They also cut down on the number of thefts that way (gas pump driveaways - a big big problem here in Virginia). As an added bonus, the state gets to take in taxes on the attendants salary and it helps fill the state coffers enough that they can reduce the fuels tax while also impacting unemployment numbers.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the policy - but it is interesting to note that gas is always cheaper in Jersey when visiting my parents than here in northern virginia. Plus, folks in Jersey never have to worry about spilling gas on my suit or showing up for a meeting with gas or grease or oil on my hands/clothes. The fact that they clean your windhsield is a nice old fashioned touch too.

 

[cuchulainn]

when the debate arose while I was in high school someone figured that the cost would stay the same or even be lower for a station owner - as a result in reduced insurance costs

Are you sure about that?

The insurance industry does not distinguish between self-serve and full-serve-only stations in assessing premiums. Or so say these folks ... http://www.wspa.org/issues/mr_selfservegasstations.htm

Only two states in the nation -- Oregon and New Jersey -- currently have an outright prohibition on self-serve gasoline sales. Their argument is twofold: first, that the volatile nature of gasoline requires respect and care when refueling; and second, there is an unfounded fear of an unacceptable danger to the public if unskilled consumers are able to dispense their own gas.

As previously stated, this fear is unfounded. In fact, the insurance industry makes no distinction in risk between self-service and full-serve outlets when assessing the risk of all human activities. Moreover, self-service is statistically safer by a substantial margin than attendant-serve outlets.

 

[nhhillbilly]

Nj

I escaped in 1987 or so. NJ gas prices are less expensive because of lower fuel tax but they make up for it in tolls. You can not go anywhere's with out paying a toll which is another tax. Plus you have sales taxes, income tax, property tax and many more.

NH more freedom and less taxes.

The power to tax is the power to enslave.

 

[newman32]

NH is the place to be in the north-east!

On my trip, I was stuck in some traffic in Lebanon thinking "this isn't much better than NJ" and then I see this guy ride by on his motorcycle with no helmet! Then I thought "that guy is nuts, but NH is a cool place!" No helmet law, no seatbelt law, no state tax...I like the attitude!

Hope to move up there someday soon! Not pumping my own gas would be about the only thing I would miss about NJ.

 

[Standing Wolf]

What if, suddenly, the entire nation adopted all of New Jersey's laws and policies on everything and began being run exactly as New Jersey's currently being run?

America has more intelligence, common sense, and integrity than to follow New Jersey down the primrose path into socialist misery.