I almost had a kaboom.........I think.

[9 m&m]

I went out shooting my model 1899 Colt .38 Spl. revolver today. I set up a golf ball about 25 yards away. I loaded up some WWB .38's and went on shooting. As yall know recoil out of a .38 is about like a .22 and out of my 6" barreled revolver it is almost non-existant, but the first shot seemed really weak. I went on shooting and ALL the rounds felt weak. After I got done shooting out the all 6 rds., I swung out the cylinder and took a look sown the barrel. I didnt have to look far cause at the end of the barrel was the shiny end of a .38!!! I went in my little work room got a wooden dowel and tapped it out. To my suprise TWO bullets fell out!! I dont know if a .38 Special could blow up a barrel but I would'nt want to try it again! After I punched it...I mean "them" out I cleaned and checked the barrel out, no problems. I went back out fired a few more times and had to come in once again punched out a bullet and went out once more but this time I got alot of really hot loads that felt like I was shooting a .357 Magnum!! I dont plan on buying any more of Winchesters .38 100 rd "Value Packs".

 

[Josey]

Not that uncommon these days. IIRC, S&B has been contracting WWB. I have heard and seen that before with WWB. I suggest you have that Colt magnafluxed. That barrel could have crystalline cracking. I definitely would have a qualified Colt gunsmith check it over. You may now own a wallhanger.

 

[stans]

Even the low pressure of 38 special 148 grain wadcutters can bulge barrels. I second the motion to have the gun checked out by a pro.

 

[Jim Watson]

9 m&m,

Is that gun MARKED .38 Special?
Reason I ask, I can find no mention of a Colt in .38 Special (which was originated by S&W in 1899) earlier than 1904. I don't have the specialist Colt collectors' references to be sure.
But I suspect it is a .38 Long Colt with bored through cylinder that will physically accept .38 Special but is not really strong enough for it.
The combination of the straight bored cylinder and the large .38 Long Colt barrel bore and groove diameters would allow a lot of gas leakage around the small hard bullet of those WWBs and stuck bullets would not be unusual.

If a .38 Long Colt, the gun is not strong enough for .38 Special.
If it IS an early .38 Special it is strong enough ONLY for the standard old 158 grain lead bullet and is certainly not stout enough for "really hot loads that felt like I was shooting a .357 Magnum!!"
Not to mention the damage that might have been done by sticking one bullet behind the other.

Y'all be careful, now, you hear?

 

[Plinkerton]

I was shooting some American Ammo out of my 4" 686 after I had heard it was terrible stuff, but after the local gun store owner told me he used it all the time. I just wanted to see how it was.

There were a few shots of nonexistant recoil, and after every one, I expected to see a bullet lodged in the barrel somewhere.

They all came out, but I won't buy it anymore.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Jim W.,

The .38 Short and Long Colt bullets are actually the same diameter as the .38 Special bullet (.357"); you may be thinking of the .38 Colt New Police, which is the .38 S&W under another name and has a larger bullet diameter.

You are correct on that gun if it was made in 1899; it is intended for the .38 Long Colt cartridge (then the U.S. service cartridge), not the .38 Special, but the chambers have no shoulders so the latter round will fit and fire.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

Jim K,

PRESENT .38 Long Colt bullets are .357" like .38 Special.

My references are a little limited, but the best I can tell, in the 19th century, the .38 Colt shot a heeled, outside lubricated bullet with a bearing surface of .375" (Stebbins) which squished down to fit a .365" groove diameter barrel (W.H.B. Smith.) It was a development of the .38 central fire round used in cartridge conversions of .36 cap and ball Colts with .375" barrels.

The advantages of inside lubricated bullets became obvious and the .38 Long Colt started to be loaded with a hollowbased .358" bullet that they hoped would expand into the rifling. Around 1904 Colt reduced groove diameter to .3605" (Smith) and some time later to the .357" that S&W introduced with the .38 Special (Smith). Smith says there were at least three sets of barrel dimensions used for .38 Long Colt.

Pre WW I, Colt was advertising guns made with the "new, smaller bore" (Haven & Belden.)

 

[Josey]

What if? Could the original barrel have been REPLACED? I have seen vintage DA Army 38s (Long Colt) in black powder form with Police Positive replacement barrels. The barrels have usually been marked Colt Police Positive 38. These are from 30s era 38 New Police/38 S&W short revolvers. I urge retirement of that particular Colt revolver.

 

[9 m&m]

Guys this thing was origionally chambered for .38 SPECIAL!! They only reccomend not shooting +P outta it.

Its a 1899 model but was made in 1903.

 

[Old Fuff]

Who the heck is "they" ???????

Without a picture I will have to speculate, but what you are describing is a Colt model 1892 D.A. 38 revolver. It was adopted by the U.S. Army in 1892, and subsequently known as models 1894, 1895, 1896, 1901 and 1903 as minor improvements were made. It was chambered in .38 Short and Long Colt, .41 Short and Long Colt, and 32-20. It should be noted that the list does not include .38 Special. Those revolvers chambered to use the .38 Short and Long cartridges have chambers that are bored straight through. and consequently don't have a throat in the front. This being the case they will chamber both .38 Special and sometimes a .357 Magnum cartridge. Neither of these should be fired in a model 1892 Colt however.

The model 1892 (including all sub-types) was made between 1892 and 1907.

In 1908 Colt introduced a new revolver, called the Army Special. These were chambered in .32-20, .38 Short and Long Colt, .38 Special and .41 Short and Long Colt.

So it's not that you can't shoot .38 Special ammunition is a Colt model 1892, its just that you shouldn't.

As a rule, military gun have plain walnut grips, Civilian guns have checkered hard-rubber grips.

 

[Jim K]

.38 caliber problem solved?

OK, I am thoroughly confused. I don't know of any Colt DA revolver that was called the 1899 model. The Navy revolver was the Model 1889, and the Army revolvers were the Models 1892, 1894, 1895, 1896, 1901 and 1903. The Marine Corps model was the 1905. All were chambered for the .38 Long Colt. As far as I can determine, no Colts were made for .38 Special prior to 1904.

Jim W., there is a lot of confusion about .38 ammo in that period. In 1889, Colt developed a new swing cylinder revolver chambered for .38 Long Colt and .41 Colt. The Navy adopted it as the Model 1889 in .38 Long Colt. It was the first Colt swing cylinder revolver and had no cylinder notches, being locked by the hand. Contrary to Colts before or since, the cylinder turned counter-clockwise.

At the time, the .38 LC used a heel type bullet, with a diameter of .375-.380 (measured specimens per Suydam). Frankford Arsenal drawings show .376. This round was known commercially as the .38 Colt Navy.

A new version of that gun with two sets of cylinder notches and a cylinder revolving clockwise was adopted by the Army in 1892. At that time, the Army decided on a cartridge with an inside lubricated bullet, but with the same case dimensions. This meant a bullet diameter reduction to .353, again going by FA drawings. Suydam cites measured specimens ranging from .342 to .357, with two FA specimens being .350 and .351. That round was known on the commercial market as the .38 Colt Army.

I was thinking that Colt changed the barrel and throat dimensions with the new model, but that was an error on my part. Smith may be correct, but my sources indicate that Colt went to the small barrel diameter (.357) in 1904. I have no reason to doubt Smith's statement about an intermediate dimension, but I cannot confirm it from other sources.

Now here is the interesting part. FA went to the small bullet diameter in 1893. All contracts for the old heel bullet ammo had been terminated by 1897, and contractors also went to the new size. So Spanish American and Philippine ammunition would probably have been the new type bullet, but the revolver bore diameter was not changed until 1904.

So, for the Spanish American war and Philippine period, troops were armed with revolvers of a .365 (at least) groove diameter, firing government-made issue ammunition with bullets as small as .350 or contract ammunition with bullets as small as .342. (Hollow base bullets were made at FA, but not until 1909.)

I wonder if at least some of the complaints about inaccuracy and lack of power of the .38 revolver in the Philippines were due to issuing the wrong size ammunition? Even with a lead bullet, there would have been gas blowby and failure to grip the lands.

But don't mention this to anyone. If you do, Michael Moore will make a movie blaming the "ammunition scandal" on Dick Cheney and Halliburton.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

No, you're not confused, you're right on.

No Colt revolver, military or commercial. was designated as the "model 1899." There was of course the "New Navy" model of 1889.

The reduction in bore size was supposed to be incorporated in the model 1892/1903. Undoubtedly part of the cartridge's bad reputaions was caused by the undersized bullets/oversized bores, until the bores were reduced during the 1903-1904 era. An unknown number of older revolvers were returned to Colt, rebarreled, and the butt's overstamped "1903"

Commercial guns followed the same changes as military models, but new parts weren't used until most, if not all of the older parts had been used up. Thus a particular change that had been made to the military guns might not show up in commercial guns for some time thereafter.

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Old .38 ammo

I just had an old customer visit and I picked up a box of unusual .38 brass to show off.

.38 Special Length rimless
WRA CO 36SL
Western 38SPL SR

Experimental part plastic round

U.M.C 38S&WSPL
REM-UMC 38-44 SPL
U.S.C.Co 38S&WSPL
U.S.C.Co 38COLT SPL

They were fired on my police range and rejected by my automated case inspection machine while reloading for my department.

Fitz

 

[9 m&m]

Ok, Ok, I am sorry for any confusion this may have caused. I got my info from the person I bought it from. That guy is "they". I seen this revolver and I thought he may be telling the truth:

www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=5925961

I didnt think there was a "model 1899" myself.

EDIT= The gun above looks exactly like mine except mine still actually has blueing left on it and my grips are checkered wood with the gold colt symbol on the top of it.

 

[twoblink]

SAFETY FIRST.

Your had is worth it, so is your face.. Get it checked..

KB! are NOTHING TO JOKE ABOUT..

I just don't want to be reading some thread with a title "I just blew up my hand"...

 

[Old Fuff]

9 m&m:

Well we are making some progress, and you may come out better then you thought. The gun pictured on the auction is a Colt model 1892 (not 1899) New Army .38 revolver. I would expect the serial number would be stamped on the bottom of the butt, at the front, probably in two rows. If you post it, with the leter "x" substituted for the last two numbers ( as in 1752xx) we can determine the year it was made.

Black, hard rubber grips, as pictured in the auction photo are the correct kind. I think the checkered walnut grips with the gold Colt trade mark medallion are likely modern replacements intended for a Python, but without a picture I can't be sure.

While these revolvers are not particularly good shooters, their collector's value has been going up. If the blue on the gun is original, and there is a fair amount of it, you might be a winner yet.

 

[Jim Watson]

At least get the poor old thing some lead bullets.

The British had trouble sticking 178 grain jacketed bullets in their Webley, Enfield, and S&W .38-200s after they had gone from lead to jacketed bullets so as to not have to worry about the Hague Conventions.

The USAF did a lot of testing with what amounted to +P and even +P+ .38 Specials because they, too, were having trouble getting FMJs to come out the muzzle end of a revolver a lot stronger than a Philippine era Colt.

Ten-X makes Cowboy loads of .38 Long Colt that are intended for repros of cartridge conversions of cap & ball revolvers, and are loaded pretty light for those "topless" guns.
http://www.ten-x.com/

 

[9 m&m]

Old Fuff,

Yes you are correct the serial no. is on the bottom of the butt in two rows. I will post the serial no in a little bit.

 

[Zackmeister]

I have had that happen when my dad first started reloading. I was using a Raging Bull .44 mag but fortunately squibs won't get the bullet all the way into the barrel so no chance of a second shot and kaboom. Then I had a Ruger P90 blow up in my hand when he double charged another run...

Needless to say, it took some persuading for me to use his loads after that...

 

[buttrap]

well as soft as the tubes are in those old guns I would not expect a crack but a bulge. Personaly I would not be shooting one of them much do to the sale value and lack of spare parts.