I don't understand the logic behind anti-crossbow regulations

[Jason_W]

At least here in New England, the crossbow seems to be a hated weapon. In Vermont, crossbows are prohibited completely unless you are deemed by a reputable physician as being incapable of drawing a standard bow. You can't even use one during the general firearms season.

Since moving to Maine, I've learned that you can use a crossbow, but only during the general firearms season and only with the purchase of an additional permit.

I can understand not allowing crossbows during the standard archery season (though that would be a little easier to swallow if people were still only using wooden recurve and long bows and not high-tech compounds). Still, that's not a battle I would ever bother to fight.

However, it makes no sense whatsoever that during the muzzleloader season, I can use a scoped, modern weapon made of the best stainless steel and composites that fires an engineered, jacketed, projectile upwards of 2000 f/s at the muzzle, but a crossbow is a no-go. Is there an argument against them I'm not considering?

 

[wombat13]

No, you aren't missing anything. Crossbows are not allowed during archery season because a very vocal percentage of archery hunters want as few hunters in the woods as possible during the rut. Never mind that hunting is a past time that is dying off and is likely to be under increasing political pressure as the number of hunters decrease. As long as they have a better chance at a big buck, the heck with everyone else.

Regarding the use of crossbows during ML season, your wildlife regulators are likely just behind the times. MLs are no longer primitive weapons. In the past year NY has allowed the use of crossbows during firearm season. The DEC has proposed the use of crossbows during archery season, but the whining and moaning from bowhunters will likely prevent that change from happening.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes, the silliness of joe-yahoo when he goes "hunting" causing bad sentiment..., it isn't "logic".

We used to have the same regulations here in the PRoMd; you could only get a crossbow permit if you didn't have the ability to draw a regular bow (compound or recurve were considered "regular"), and a physician signed off on the lack of ability. You could use them during any part of the season that a bow was legal.

The biggest problem we have here, from what I have obseved, is that too often the folks who go for that crossbow, are poorly trained. Shooting a bow takes practice, especially a non-compound. Lots of it. Some folks who shoot crossbows seem to think they don't need as much practice, AND seem to think that it will increase the range over a compound bow. Crossbows are more powerful, but generally when using the old style "bolts" instead of arrows, they tend to be less accurate. (Now I've heard that crossbows are coming out that shoot full sized archery arrows, which will correct this..., and some of the currenty crossbows are pretty darn accurate). Most crossbow hunters work at being good shots..., it's that small element that thinks it's "easy" that cause the problems. So, as such, you get problems like bad hits on game so the animal isn't dispatched quickly, and thus folks get an anti-crossbow bias.

Really, what you have is a few horror stories, ruining the situation for the majority of the hunters that use them. This is an age old problem in our community. Folks remember the yahoo with the crossbow who wounded a deer at 60 yards, or finding the suffering deer with a crossbow "bolt" sticking out of it..., they don't think that was an exception to the rule, or that the guy that did it was known for doing the same crap with a rifle or a muzzleloader, or that they saw this in 1991, and improvements have come about in the last 20 years. They remember the bad, and it sticks.

As I said, it ain't logical.

LD

 

[desidog]

Don't try to find logic. Laws aren't necessarily made that way.

IIRC, something about "Crossbows shoot arrows as fast and far as rifles, but silently...so they must be bad." Kind of like gun sound suppressors, because if you don't want to annoy your neighbors, you must be up to something nefarious.

I'm also perplexed by the MuzzleLoader Season question you mention. I imagine the season was intended to be harder than Rifle; and therefore easier on the game, but that ship has sailed with modern inlines and electric ignitions, sabots, powder pellets, etc.

In CT, the Muzzleloader season is tacked on the end after Rifle season, after the Rut, after the leaves are down...making it much harder to close the distance with a deer, and get off a misfire and a shot from my flintlock...and take that buck down with a patched ball.

ETA: ^ Dave beat me to it on the Logic front.

 

[dragon813gt]

I am glad that they are allowed in PA during the full season. I have been a rifle shooter my entire life. I decided I'd like to be in the woods when the weather was nice for once. It was a logical choice to pick up a crossbow. I practice with it every day and am proficient enough that I don't worry about wounding a deer. I would be a lot more dangerous if I were to pick up a compound and decide to hunt with it. Like many my recreational time is limited and I just don't have the time to learn an entirely new weapon. I don't understand why they limit their use in other states. But there are plenty of hunting regulations that I don't understand why they are in place.


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[jmr40]

I'm in the camp that has no problem with someone hunting with a crossbow, but don't really think they should be used in special archery only seasons. For that matter I would prefer archery only seasons to be for longbows and recurve only. But that is just me. Don't feel strongly enough to make a stink about it.

 

[FLAvalanche]

It's no difference than anything else. Ignorance powers the train. People still think that crossbows are so much faster and more deadly than bows when in truth it's hard to find crossbows that are faster than today's compounds.

But this same hatred and ignorance happened years ago when compound bows where introduced. The longbow and recurve guys turned their noses and complained just like today.

 

[bejay]

guess some states do allow them in bow season but think it comes down to there advantages over long bow also that was set long ago and as mentioned there really isnt an advantage over modern compound so it may be something that may change one day id think most states would probably love to sell more archery tags if they researched it a little.

 

[Skyshot]

At a time when we are losing hunters, we need to gain more. It's draconian laws like this that causes people to leave the sport. No matter how technology fabricates the implement, it's still a stick and a string!

 

[BullfrogKen]

I'm not a deer hunter. But I can appreciate the reason why those who archery hunt don't want them in the field for archery season.


The big difference is a traditional bow must be drawn in the presence of game. A crossbow does not. That's a huge advantage for someone using a crossbow. The Game Management Agencies use the numbers of deer killed to manage the herd, and more importantly set season limits.

Those using crossbows are simply going to have more success. And as more hunters who wouldn't hunt with a traditional bow begin to participate in archery season using them the herd, will dimish more.


There are only so many deer to go around, fellas. Crossbows do make it easier for an experienced bow hunter to harvest game because he does not have to draw the bow back in the presence of the game. And it makes it easier for an unexperienced archery hunter to enter the season and attempt to bag another deer.

 

[T Bran]

Here in Florida we have a crossbow season that is new and relatively short only 2 weeks It is also legal to use a crossbow during rifle season.
T

 

[okiewita40]

This is the first year that I know of that Ok. hunters can use a crossbow w/o a special permit from a DR. Here is the legal means under the archery section for Deer hunting.

http://www.eregulations.com/oklahoma/hunting/pageFlip/

 

[Jason_W]

I can appreciate the reason why those who archery hunt don't want them in the field for archery season.

I would never bother advocating any DNR to allow crossbows in the regular archery season. That would be an enormous waste of energy.

I would like to see them allowed during the MZ season, though.

For me, a big part of the reason is that while I would love to extend my deer season, I just really don't enjoy the whole front stuffer thing.

 

[heeler]

For years and years crossbows were not legal in Texas but just recently they were made legal.
I deer hunt but have zero desire to use a bow as I much prefer the rifle for obvious reasons.
But just Saturday I was discussing the use of a crossbow with a guy that pretty much exclusively uses a bow and he had very few things positive to say about the use of the crossbow.
This is what I suspected when I questioned him about them.
It's just that way with a lot of bow hunters.

 

[Yarddog]

"[It's just that way with a lot of bow hunters.]"

AGREE ; )
Y/D

 

[Bobson]

I'm not a deer hunter. But I can appreciate the reason why those who archery hunt don't want them in the field for archery season.


The big difference is a traditional bow must be drawn in the presence of game. A crossbow does not. That's a huge advantage for someone using a crossbow. The Game Management Agencies use the numbers of deer killed to manage the herd, and more importantly set season limits.

Those using crossbows are simply going to have more success.

Think this is the main point. I'll admit ignorance, having never used a crossbow, but I wouldn't want them mixed with the archery-specific season either. I have no problem allowing them in the general (modern rifle) season. Everyone I know who's fired one has found it far more comparable to rifle than to any other type of bow, including compounds.

I've never hunted big game with any type of weapon, but I'm currently gearing up to start bowhunting next year. The difficulty is most of what drew me to bowhunting, as opposed to using a rifle. I don't want to sound like a whiner, but it wouldn't seem fair (and I really hate to use that word here, but its true) to me to allow crossbows in the general archery season. What's to stop hunters with years of experience from lowering my success rate even more, when all they have to do is trade out a centerfire for a crossbow, and I'm trying to learn with a compound?

 

[dragon813gt]

Since when is hunting a fair sport? You should not be upset when better technology comes along. PA as a state has seen fit to allow crossbows for the full seasons. I could say that the thousands that move to my area every year lower my odds. But I just take it in stride and use what is allowed to increase my odds. Bait hunting is completely illegal here and I am glad for that. If it was allowed I would not complain that it decreases my odds. I would no doubt start baiting because it was allowed. Anything that increases the numbers of hunters is a good thing. And that is the last thing I want. Because in SE PA it is extremely crowded on public land and every year more private land is closed to hunting.


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[Art Eatman]

I sometimes think the attitude against the crossbow goes all the way back to Merrye Olde England. It took many years to train an archer of that period in the warrior use of the longbow. Then, along came the crossbow and any peasant could perforate the Grand Lord's armor. That was considered grossly unfair!

I'm not sure the crossbow folks oughta be out in the woods at the same time as the regular bow-hunters, but that's mostly an "anti-crowd" notion on my part.

More likely, I think, that a crossbow guy is trying it instead of a rifle, so it probably doesn't add to the numbers in the woods at any one time during rifle season.

Guessin' & speculatin'...

 

[Bobson]

Choosing to look at a crossbow as "better technology" is just an excuse for wanting to get more time hunting, without limiting oneself to a traditional tool. If you were simply trying to take advantage of better technology, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because after hunting in modern rifle season, you'd be busy hunting with a muzzleloader.

The only reason I mentioned fairness is because a lot of the pro-crossbow members said including crossbows could potentially bring new hunters to the sport. That may be, but I know it would also push others away.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Cross Bows were made legal in NC sometime in the last year or three.
I don't get the feeling it has added to the number of archery hunters to amount to anything. Doesn't bother me anyway
The problem NC has is getting enough hunters to kill enough deer to keep the population in control.

 

[Frozen North]

Part of the beef that the DNR has against crossbows during the rifle and muzzleloader seasons is the lack of the big noise! I have not seen anyone touch on that yet. The DNR can hear you shooting before and after shooting hours, and they can hear a whole ton of shooting coming from a certain section.

Crossbow makes no noise, so it is a great poachers tool. It is easier to outlaw the crossbow than it is to catch a poacher poaching with one.

 

[jmr40]

The only reason I mentioned fairness is because a lot of the pro-crossbow members said including crossbows could potentially bring new hunters to the sport. That may be, but I know it would also push others away.

This is exactly why they are being legalized in more and more places. To sell more hunting licenses. Georgia, like a lot of other states have seen the numbers of hunters drop steadily. And revenue go down as well. Georgia also has a severe deer over population problem. We have bag limits on deer here, but most folks think of them as a suggestion, rather than a real limit. hunters are encouraged to kill as many does as possible in most of the state.

I don't personally like them, and would prefer they not be legal during our archery season. But on the other hand I understand the problem and will grudgingly accept them if it will bring in new hunters and help thin the deer herd a little. Of course after they are hooked on hunting I'd like to get them to try using real archery equipment, longbows and recurves.

 

[Bobson]

Part of the beef that the DNR has against crossbows during the rifle and muzzleloader seasons is the lack of the big noise! I have not seen anyone touch on that yet. The DNR can hear you shooting before and after shooting hours, and they can hear a whole ton of shooting coming from a certain section.

Crossbow makes no noise, so it is a great poachers tool. It is easier to outlaw the crossbow than it is to catch a poacher poaching with one.

I totally understand that, as I was going to bring it up when the poaching problem occurred to me.

The thing is, if it's that big of a problem, they could outlaw any kind of archery, and it'd be justified by their logic. And idk about other states, but here in AZ, hunting with a compound, recurve, or longbow is legal during any season (provided one has a tag for the animal being hunted, of course).

 

[35 Whelen]

For that matter I would prefer archery only seasons to be for longbows and recurve only. But that is just me.

Me too!!

I'm not sure the crossbow folks oughta be out in the woods at the same time as the regular bow-hunters, but that's mostly an "anti-crowd" notion on my part.

As someone already said, Texas now allows crossbows during archery season AS THEY SHOULD! Why? Follow the progression:
Archery started with wooden long bows shooting wooden arrows which of course was a challenge. Next came recurves and aluminum which made things a little easier. Then of course along came compound bows. Now a hunter could draw his bow and hold it at full draw...at only 50% of its draw weight...waiting for the right opportunity. Then came bows with 60%, 70% or more let off, then expanding broadheads that were less affected by the wind, illuminated sights, illuminated nocks, special arrow rests, releases, all to make it easier to use a bow. Archery hunters cheered gleefully and lined up to buy the latest gadget fr their bows.
Then finally, and inevitably, Texas allowed the use of a device that would hold the bow at full draw. Guess what happened the following year? The crossbow was made legal during archery season!! And why not? They wanted progress, and they got it!

Now, think about muzzleloading (ML) for a minute. In the beginning, ML hunting required the use of a primitive firearm with open sights, a primitive priming system and propellent along with an aerodynamically inefficient round lead ball. Maximum practical range was somewhere around 125 yds....maybe.
Now ML's are in-line, mount scopes, (better for hunting in low light) use shotshell primers, powder in pellet form, and efficiently shaped bullets (quicker reloading)perched atop plastic skirts or in sabots that allow shots to well over 150 yds...maybe even out to 200 yds or more. So some day the question will arise...."why can't I use my single shot 30-30, 32 Special, 38-55, 45-70, etc. See where this could go?

Then there's shotguns that were required in areas of dense population because those big, fat lead slugs lobbed at 1300 fps or so wouldn't go too far. Now the shotgun projectiles are loaded to 1900 fps and like ML's can be used pretty easily out to 200 yds. So again, what's the difference in using a shotgun loaded as described above, and a low velocity rifle cartridge?

35W

 

[Sav .250]

That mine set is slowly changing. More states have opened up to that.