I have a Goofy one

[Archie]

Last gun show (first weekend of October, 2022) one of the other vendors I think came up to my table and offered a pistol. It is a typical Spanish (Basque) made item of the early era of the 20th Century.
Clearly of Spanish origin, the 'half moon' shaped charging serrations on the slide, the port side flat steel disconnector on the frame, rotary port side safety replaced grips from something else.
It looks like a knock off of the 1906 FN or Colt 1908 .25 Automatic. The gentleman wanted $50.00. As I did not have a Basque pistol in the inventory (I collect .25 and .32 ACP chambered pistols of that era) I bought it to add such to the collection and somewhat of a lark.

It is in rather used condition. The original grips are gone, as is the finish (bluing). It seems to be rust pitted enough to make the use of charging serrations unneeded. Almost.

I can see some imprint on the port side of the slide. However, the metal has been eroded and rusted to the point I cannot read it well. It is the typical two line inscription - I can made out the more or less marks.
The top line reads "[factory?] Armes de Guerre" which seems to me to be "Fabrique Armes de Guerre"; in English "Fabrication (plant) for Arms (weapons) of War". A rather common title for such. (Part of this I admit is my own presupposition.)
The bottom line reads "Jurala Marque de [huge rust pit]" I do speak and read Spanish, but I cannot find the meaning of "jurala". So in English this is ' "Jurala" (?) Marque of [De...(rust blotch over about two letters)...se]".My best guess is ' "Jurala" Marque de Depose'
The English translation (with admittedly a bit of guesswork on my part) is ' "Jurala (company) Mark (name, insignia, logo, identity of manufacturer) of [something, likely a registration or patent claim].

There is a logo to the right side of the above inscription featuring the head of a seeming knight with helmet under the motto (I think) "jubala".
What may be a proof or acceptance stamp is found high on the frame, just under the slide and nearly the rear of the pistol. It is a shield with what appears to be a stylized E within. The 'E' has a 'y' with a tail curving opposite to an English 'y'. It is as washed out as most everything else, and I cannot find anything in the 'gunmarks' book I have.

The only visible number marking is the two digit "84" on the starboard side of the frame, just above the trigger guard. It looks hand stamped and strike me more as an assembly number.

Here's the goofy part. I assumed this was in .25 ACP. It is the correct size. I must add all the external stampings of caliber, origin, manufacturer and such is to worn as to be illegible in any ordinary sense. It is in fact a rather small .32 ACP.

So. Does anyone know what this thing is? Any suspicions?

 

[CapnMac]

Photos will help us here in the Peanut Gallery.

I've heard of folk using RTV to make a negative casting of engraving. Also, in filling with "white out" (typewriter correction fluid) can also "pop" faint engraving. Another option is to use a "low light" setting on a camera to see if it can correct the contrast enough to read such things.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Need pics, but at this point Im guessing a "compact" Ruby copy.

 

[Monac]

"Fabrique d'Armes de Guerre" or "Fabrique d'Armes de Guerre de Grande Precison" seems to have been a Spanish marketing or export operation that bought guns from various Spanish makers and exported them under the "Fabrique d'Armes etc." name. Sometimes the original manufacturer can be identifed by stampings in inconspicous places, or by grips that have the original manufacturers logo on them. I think the idea behind the name was to make the unsuspecting customer think the guns were French or Belgian in origin. None of them were military arms, nor were they of great precision.

This all comes from my recollections of Hogg & Weeks "Pistols of the World". I think the entry for it was under "Grand Precision".

If you do a Google search for the name, you will get results for lots of pistols, pretty much all automatics, some of which can be matched to pictures under the names of the manufacturers in "Pistols of the World". They seem to have sold a very wide selection of guns. I might have one myself, but I would have it filed under the name of the actual maker.

You did well to get this gun for only $50. People are beginning to ask extraordinary prices for anything "vintage". Also, there is more interest in these old Spanish guns now that people think of them as collectibles rather than for their rather dubious value as weapons.

PS - I think "Marque Depose" means something like "registered trademark", probably in French rather than Spanish. I think the Spanish would be "Marca Registrada", like on S&W revolvers.

 

[Jim Watson]

Jubala is the brand name. Some mention at
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/curioandrelicfirearmsforum/jubala-t9900.html

Triple K has magazines for one variant.
https://www.triplek.com/product/jubala-small-grip-frame-32-acp/

No doubt rust made Jubala read as Jurala.

 

[Archie]

Cap,n Mac, photos are in progress, but everything is worn and the exterior looks very much like all the other Northern Spain (Basque) pistols of the era. I did try the 'paint in the engraving and wipe off the excess' ploy and it didn't work at all. I will try the photo trick - low light and adjusting contrast.

NightLord, yeah, that's my guess as well. I do have a Modelo 1914 pistol, while not having 'Ruby' imprinted (nor is the smaller one) both of that ilk. Except for the smaller size, it is the same external and internal design as the one under discussion.

Monac, thanks for the information. The upper line of the slide markings does sound a bit 'inclusive' to me. And I'm aware (likely as you are) that in the 'old days' prior to the incorporation into 'companies', this was more or less a 'cottage industry' where various parts were done in individual groups and then corporately assembled and hand fit. Or beat to fit, as one prefers.

Wonder of wonders, the magazines are close, but no cigar. Hand-fitting again. The good news is I've managed to get the magazine to fit in the magazine well, AND the magazine works. Not well or reliably, but works.

As you said, "None of them were military arms, nor were they of great precision." Actually the French Army bought quite a few for issue to officers in WW1. I read somewhere the contract stated the pistols were not expected to last more than 5,000 or 500 rounds or so. Verily they were not of great precision.

Fifty bucks was worth the experimentation I get to do. (I wouldn't have spent more for it.) I'm making grips for it. I (gently) beat the magazine until I got it to work. I will attempt to fix the distorted hammer and the worn off disconnector. I would not do this to a handgun or rifle worth keeping. I'll keep it anyway to serve as a bad example, if nothing else.

Jim, you are correct. I mistyped the name in my initial post. It is 'Jubala'. The word in Spanish is very similar to the word in Spanish for jubilant. 'One should be happy to have such a pistol.' Basque version of Madison Avenue.

At any rate, I am aware this is not a valuable collector's piece. But it is fun and interesting with which to fiddle. But I've never heard of this maker prior - probably one of many - nor could I find any of the markings.

But just for fun, I will post pictures of it and try to update those interested in any progress in getting it to work as (more or less) right. All may rest assured, if I ever fire it, it will be clamped to something solid and string operated for the first few shots.

 

[Archie]

Okay, pictures of the subject.


I'm sure none of these photos will be a surprise. Perhaps the size of the Jubala; I've never seen one this small in this category.
For those with keen eyes and inquiring spirits, yes, I spelled Jubala wrong on the photo captions. I will fix them, but I'm too lazy to delete all these and reinstate them after the mending.
The magazines are really that similar looking. I compared the location of the holes in the magazine. Obviously there are more holes in the longer magazine, but the holes that are there are in the same place.
Another observation: Never in my born days have I seen a "Ruby" type pistol with a grip safety. It doesn't seem to work these days, but it is there.
Now I have to finish the port grip for the Jubala and make grips for the Modelo 1914. The grips were already replaced when I bought it with what seems to be veneer. I think I have some ends and such of Poplar that should do. A museum piece it's not.

 

[Speedo66]

Wow, that is small, would be nice size for a .32 if it was a decent gun.

I had one Spanish pistol, I think it was labeled as "Gaztonaga Destroyer". Had a nasty habit of slam firing.

Have fun with your new gun!

 

[rambo2_981]

Are you going to remake grips for it yourself?

 

[Archie]

I had one Spanish pistol, I think it was labeled as "Gaztonaga Destroyer". Had a nasty habit of slam firing.

Those pistols are not long lived. I read somewhere (can't remember, of course) the Rubies purchased by the French Army were only expected to last 500 rounds or so. However, they are historically fascinating. Just not ballistically imposing.

Are you going to remake grips for it yourself?

Already did. Sort of. I made a pair of grip scales (the obvious bits) from a scrap of Poplar hardwood. The right side is easy as one simply has to fit a projection to the cut out in the frame, then line up the single hole for the screw. The left panel covers the trigger bar and the disconnector. So the grip has to be away enough to not impede movement; so I didn't make a protrusion, but will glue a flat washer to prevent the grip from moving around on the single screw. Then I realized one of the grips has 'vertical' grain pattern and the other is more or less 45 degrees off. And they are not grooved in the style of the originals - grooved up and down. I did somewhat taper fore and aft.
This was an experiment. I think I did all right (pictures not ready yet) but I'm not planning to open up a grip shop any time soon.