I have decided on an M1 Carbine in '17.

[Captain O]

I cannot afford a Fulton Armory M1 Carbine, nor am I going to rebuild a WW2 or Korean War "veteran". (I just wanted to clear that up from the outset). I am not going to rebuild anything! Lots of people enjoy doing this, but I cannot afford to put the money into arriving at what, for the same money, I could buy from Fulton Armory Carbine.

This narrows the choice to between Auto Ordnance or Inland. Inland warranties 3 MOA at 100 yards with their rifle. A/O makes no such claim.

Now that I have established the perameters of my purchase, I would like some opinions of which rifle will be the better value for the money (This Carbine will be a shooter, not a "wall hanger").

Ready, set, shoot!

 

[CapnMac]

Have you looked into the DCM Carbines?

They are ready to shoot, and of all working parts--if not necessarily matching factory-made ones (which was an extremely rare state for in-service Carbines to be in).

Just a thought.

 

[Captain O]

Unfortunately, contacting DCM right now won't help me when I can afford the Carbine... in 2017.

 

[rcmodel]

Yea.

There are too many perfectly serviceable GI M-1 Carbines out there to pay more for a second rate reproduction that may or may not work.

rc

 

[Captain O]

I'm not quite certain how 70 years of shooting can improve a barrel. (The wear has to deteriorate the barrel's accuracy to some extent). "It shoots as if it were new". No, that doesn't wash. I stopped living in "fantasyland" when it comes to a 70-year old barrel. So many times these old Carbines were "ridden hard and put away wet". You can't convince me that they are "as new". How many come with a warranty"? I didn't think so.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I have two 70 year old .22 target rifles and one that is 50 years old. They all are literally tack driving accurate. Thousands and thousands rounds of ammo hasn't hurt them.

As far as centerfires go, I think Mosins are a prime example of how old, beat up rifles that have had questionable care can shoot very well.

I would much rather invest in a nice original M1 over spending my money on a copy.

 

[rcmodel]

I'm not quite certain how 70 years of shooting can improve a barrel. (The wear has to deteriorate the barrel's accuracy to some extent). "It shoots as if it were new". No, that doesn't wash.

What you are not taking into account is that many if not most GI Carbines were rebuilt /re barreled in the 1950's, then sold as surplus through the DCM for $19.95 in the 1960's.

Some, if not most have been in someone's gun cabinet since then and fired very little.

Folks back then didn't, or couldn't afford to go out and burn a barrel out every weekend like the AR-15 'operators' do now.

If you hunt around you can still find GI Carbines in decent condition, with like new barrels.

And unlike the modern reproductions, they work.

But if you want a warranty, you should buy a modern reproduction.
Because you will probably need a warranty before you get it to work.

rc

 

[Captain O]

I wasn't trying to "flame" but on the M1 Carbine Forum I keep reading about carbines that have this and that part (including barrels) requiring replacement.

I just can't see buying an older carbine for $800.00 (yes, that's how much they are costing these days) then putting another $800.00 of parts and labor into it. Hell, for that kind of money, I can buy a Fulton Armory Carbine that can split a gnat's arse at 50 yards! As I said before, I can't afford $1600.00 on a VA Pension! I am living on $1072.00 and my finances aren't favoring shelling out $1600.00, no matter how you slice it.

This is the crux of the problem.

 

[rcmodel]

Hell, for that kind of money, I can buy a Fulton Armory Carbine that can split a gnat's arse at 50 yards!

So, you have never shot an M1 Carbine then?

You can expect 2"-3" groups at 50, and perhaps twice that at 100 with typical GI ammo out of the best of them.

They were never made for long range accuracy.

They were designed to replace the 1911A1 .45 pistol at close to medium combat range.

That's a man sized target out to 200+ yards or so.

Gnats were never considered one of the accuracy requirements when it was designed.

rc

 

[Captain O]

I had a Universal Carbine back in 1995. It shot well but I had to sell it because my wife had died and I had to scrape up the money to help bury her.

This is not a favorite subject, because I awakened next to her dead body after she had died 20 minutes beforehand.

 

[rcmodel]

Too much info!!

But, sorry for your loss.

I found my mother dead in bed one morning years ago.
It's hard to get the image out of your mind.

Apparently for the rest of your life.

Rc

 

[Captain O]

Diabetes slowly killed her. She received a kidney transplant from her brother that eventually died from Pancreatic cancer.

We were visiting Southern Texas and Northern Mexico, (visiting her relatives) after her transplant, when an in-window air conditioner fell on her head. We drove from McAllen, Texas to Portland Oregon and she was hallucinating all the way. They gave her Dilantin in California which destroyed her transplanted kidney. She had to go back on dialysis and died from her ninth and final heart attack on August 31st, 1999.

I have buried four children and a spouse in this lifetime. and have had a belly-full of death and dying.

Back to the .30 Carbine. I'm not expecting miracles, but I am a darned good marksman and have been shooting since 1961 (I was six). Daddy was Navy Rifle Team and Underwater Demolition Team. I was taught well and learned marksmanship at Daddy's knee. (I ave been at this a while). I was an Aviation Machinist's Mate (Navy) during the last days of the Vietnam Conflict.

I am no "civilian" nor am I a "newbie" when it comes to all kinds of arms. (I helped dad load his 12 gauge shot shells for skeet when I was a young man).

I have "danced around the maypole" with rifles, handguns and shotguns for over 50 years.

Does this clarify things?

 

[amd6547]

100yds, standing offhand, 15rd rapid fire using Hornady Critical Defense out of the 70yr old 1944 underwood barrel installed Postwar on my 6-digit CMP Inland:

 

[eastbank]

the m1 carbine was never intended to be a main line battle rifle, but a better arm than a .45 auto for less than front line troops. i have shot man size targets at 150 yards and it was easy to get hits on it and i don,t think i could with a .45 auto. eastbank.

 

[amd6547]

What drove the developement of the M1 carbine was an appreciation of modern war, circa 1940. Blitzkrieg and fallschirmjager made rear areas frontlines very quickly.
Audie Murphy showed what the carbine was capable of against men armed with SMG's, full powered bolt actions, and probably sturmgewehr.

 

[DMK]

I'm not quite certain how 70 years of shooting can improve a barrel....So many times these old Carbines were "ridden hard and put away wet".

Most M1 carbines were mostly carried often and shot little. These were rear area and guard duty weapons.

The Service Grade Inland that I got from the CMP looked rough on the outside but everything fits tight and the bore is pristine.

The mechanical condition surprised me considering that the rifle was built during WWII, was surplused from US inventory to the Italians in the 60s, who then surplused it back to the US to be sold through the CMP to me.

 

[DMK]

You can expect 2"-3" groups at 50, and perhaps twice that at 100 with typical GI ammo out of the best of them.

They were never made for long range accuracy.

There are some documents out there to accurize M1 carbines. (But yes 2MOA is probably the best you can hope for.)

It's been a while since I've read into it, but stock fit is very critical (much like the M1 Rifle). The Bayonet lug is actually supposed to help shot consistency as well.

I replaced the original stock on mine with an aftermarket Paratrooper stock that fit much tighter and it improved accuracy quite noticeably.

 

[ulflyer]

Continue Researching Inland & AO Repro's

Capt, I won't try to convince you to find a GI Carbine as you clearly are not
interested. And I can't recommend either of your two choices as I know very
little about them. I have read, but cannot confirm, that the AO does not have some parts that will interchange with GI parts, and that some owners have had problems with them. Inland is so new to the market that not much is known. Supposedly their parts will conform to GI standards, and maybe by next year
when you are ready to buy there will have been some reports about their
reliability. Good luck.

 

[tark]

This M-1 carbine was issued in WW II , converted after the war to an M-2 and issued again in Korea. It has the original barrel, which has seen a lot of full auto firing. The bore looks crisp and clean and the gun can hit a grapefruit seven or eight times out of ten shots at 100 yards.

My point being that M-1s don't wear out barrels very fast, aided by the fact that M-1 Carbine ammo issued by the military, from day one, has always been non-corrosive.

 

[eastbank]

my 700.00 winchester ww-2 rebuilt m1 carbine rifle with bayonet, it does very well with in its intended ranges. eastbank.

 

[philbo]

I picked up an AO in trade a few years back. The only issue I've ever had was 1 after market mag wouldn't hold the bolt open on the last shot. Been reliable with every brand of ammo I've run thru it. It's only been about 1500 rounds so far, but I have no complaints. Accuracy for off hand shooting at 50 yds averages about 3-4 inches for me, regardless of ammo. As to aftermarket parts?.... don't know because I've not needed any. I'm satisfied with my AO. Reproduction or not, it works.

 

[Captain O]

Thank you philbo.

I don't know why everyone insists on showing me their rebuilt Carbines. They are fine, of course, but I will be 62 before I can afford to buy mine and it will go to junk when I am gone. (No family, no heirs). When I'm dead, nobody is going to care.

What is the point in buying an expensive gun when I'll get no more than 25 years from it?

 

[GBExpat]

Sans any optimizing, the two Inland M1 Carbines that I bought from the CMP for $495/ea in 2007 are <3MOA rifles.

FWIW.

 

[maxxhavoc]

I don't know why everyone insists on showing me their rebuilt Carbines. They are fine, of course, but I will be 62 before I can afford to buy mine

Ok, well then here is my 2 year old AO carbine:


The stock did not look nearly this nice when I bought it. It was as flat and boring as a 10/22. And it soaked up liquids like a sponge.

1x BLO/Mineral spirits rubbed in with 000 steel wool
1x BLO/mineral spirits
3x BLO

Each coat, let it soak in for 1/2 hour, then wipe off. Let sit overnight, then do the next step. Much more durable finish, water resistant, and looks pretty awesome too.

A couple of notes about the AO carbines - sling/oilers do not work on these stocks. The receiver/trigger group are not fully GI spec, according to others more knowledgeable than me.

I have more than 1500 trouble free rounds through her, and I shot an Appleseed AQT at rifleman with it. Maybe not quite as accurate as an AR, but good enough to bust clays at 100 yards every time without fail. For an old guy using iron sights, that's good enough for me.

 

[Captain O]

Ok, well then here is my 2 year old AO carbine:


The stock did not look nearly this nice when I bought it. It was as flat and boring as a 10/22. And it soaked up liquids like a sponge.

1x BLO/Mineral spirits rubbed in with 000 steel wool
1x BLO/mineral spirits
3x BLO

Each coat, let it soak in for 1/2 hour, then wipe off. Let sit overnight, then do the next step. Much more durable finish, water resistant, and looks pretty awesome too.

A couple of notes about the AO carbines - sling/oilers do not work on these stocks. The receiver/trigger group are not fully GI spec, according to others more knowledgeable than me.

I have more than 1500 trouble free rounds through her, and I shot an Appleseed AQT at rifleman with it. Maybe not quite as accurate as an AR, but good enough to bust clays at 100 yards every time without fail. For an old guy using iron sights, that's good enough for me.

I like that! I hope that I can find one in decent shape when the time comes. Let's be honest, we're not kids anymore, and I want to enjoy a Carbine again before I'm gone.

I can't say how long I'll be on this old earth before I die, but want to enjoy the time i have left.