I have obviously got it completely wrong.

[Lew Rodd]

I asked the question' American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)
and this is only CHILDREN. Is this the price we must pay to live in a FREE country?
Reading the replies I received, it seems to me, we have less deaths from guns than the rest of the world put together, even though we have a population only 5 times bigger than GB, France or Germany, and 10 times bigger than Canada, the numbers do not add up, to have the same ratio as Canada we would need to be 32 times bigger, 46 times bigger than France,
and 89 times bigger than Germany, (we will leave out GB completely) even if the numbers of dead are wrong by 50%, you can see the numbers are crazy, if safety was measured by the number of guns in a country, the US would be the safest place on earth to live, but we all know that's not true.

 

[bdutton]

The CDC groups 'children' as an age group up to age 20.

A majority of handgun CRIME is comitted by 15-25 year old 'children'.

Accidental deaths per capita have been at an all time low since the tracking of accidents in 1903.

Guns are not the 'cause' of death. The illegal use of guns are.

 

[R.W.Dale]

firearms killed no children in Japan

And it's the exact same number here. NOBODY has ever been killed BY a firearm, But lot's of people have been killed WITH a firearm.

HUGE DIFFRENCE. Come on is it, really any better to be gutted like a fish with a kitchen knife.

 

[Mannlicher]

a troll indeed, bdutton.
Second post, and postulates something like this.
Hey Rodd, go peddle your garbage somewhere else.

 

[Justin]

If you think he's a troll, don't respond. If he's become uncivil, then let a moderator know.

Geeze.

 

[Firehand]

As I recall, in the listing of developed nations, the U.S. is a fair ways down on the list for violent crimes. Among those above us are Scotland, England and some other countries with gun ownership laws ranging from very strict to prohibitive. As history shows, beating on objects does not make you safer.

And if I remember right, the CDC figures were messed with to get that number by including(among others) gangbangers killing each other, suicides and people up to 22 or 23years old.

Your post comes across as someone throwing out VPC and Brady talking points. Where did your numbers on other countries come from?

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

(Just in case: For those of you who haven't heard this line of argument before, the "children" being killed are 17 year-old gang bangers offing each other over drugs. If you take, say, people under the age of ten, you will find the riding bicycles and drowning in pools is more lethal.)

 

[fletcher]

if safety was measured by the number of guns in a country, the US would be the safest place on earth to live, but we all know that's not true.

Anyone with sense knows that it isn't. The quantity of firearms in a location will undeniably have some effect on the safety, but it can not be defined by a simple direct or inverse correlation.


Also, can you please work on your punctuation and such in these posts? I'm having a rather hard time trying to make out what you're saying.

 

[GunFixer]

I wonder how many people (not children) are killed in other countries in Africa and the Middle East by AK47's? Lets compare those numbers to the United states. Lets not forget about the suicide bombers.

I am a law abiding gun owner and my guns have never killed anyone or better yet, like krochus says, no one has ever been killed WITH one of my guns. Its the drug dealing, gang banging, rapist, scum bags that our legal system seems to want to protect, while continually tigheting the noose on the law abiding citizen.

I don't think that we have a gun problem in this country, I think that we have a people problem. If all of a sudden guns were magically whisked into non-existence...I think that a huge baseball bat or a knife problem would surface in this country.

 

[armoredman]

And these mean...

 

[griz]

A total of two posts on the exact same subject? I started to report it then realized it isn't offensive. It's just...well, trollish.

 

[Stickjockey]

Pay particular attention to where Switzerland is on that chart. Remember, there's an automatic rifle in just about every hall closet.

 

[220_Swift]

If you take, say, people under the age of ten, you will find the riding bicycles and drowning in pools is more lethal.)

Only if you use common sense, and think for yourself. People like this are brainwashed, and believe anything they are told. You would have better luck trying to teach my dog spanish than getting people like this to understand the truth.


Here is a link for the true child mortality rates for 2002.

http://www.childdeathreview.org/nationalchildmortalitydata.htm

 

[Harry Tuttle]

mull upon this

in the wisqars system you can query for causes of fatal injury due to guns
http://www.cdc.gov/NCIPC/wisqars/

2003 Population 290,810,789

2003, United States
Firearm Deaths
All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages

Number of
Deaths
30,136

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

2003, United States
Violence-Related Firearm Deaths
(suicide, homicide and Legal intervention)
All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages

Number of
Deaths
29,174

so say its on average 30,000 people die from guns per year due to intentional violence

how many of those people are killed by the police?

2003, United States
Legal Intervention Firearm Deaths
All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages
ICD-10 Codes: Y35.0

Number of
Deaths
347

isn't that rather low?

mayhaps, when the police report perforating a perpetrator
they mark it down as the perpetrators "fault"

>>>>>>>>>

how many are suicides?

2003, United States
Suicide Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages
ICD-10 Codes: X72-X74

Number of
Deaths
16,907

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

so how many people are unintentionally "accidentally" shot?

2003, United States
Unintentional Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages

Number of
Deaths
730

who are the 730?

the majority fall in a band of 14-30 year olds

2003, United States
Unintentional Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 10 to 29

Age Group Number of Deaths

10-14 36
15-19 95
20-24 105
25-29 74

Total 310

2003, United States
Unintentional Firearm Deaths
All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 9

Total 20

there are your unintentional tragic children that died from firearms in 2003

meanwhile:
2003, United States
Unintentional Injury Deaths
All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 9

Total 3,758

 

[1 old 0311]

This was NOT posed as a question. He posted the SAME thing yesterday. Lou "Sara Brady" Rodd is not looking for a debate. He is looking for a soap box. PLEASE don't give it to him.

Kevin

 

[AndyC]

I don't think that we have a gun problem in this country, I think that we have a people problem. If all of a sudden guns were magically whisked into non-existence...I think that a huge baseball bat or a knife problem would surface in this country.

+1 - see Britain:

So...what comes after the knife ban? The half-brick ban? Hey, Mr Politician, here's a gentle hint because you obviously need some help - try going after the C-R-I-M-I-N-A-L-S themselves, not just the tools that law-abiding people legally use as well.

 

[Firehand]

Kevin's right, didn't think to check his name before I posted an answer

 

[jlbraun]

Straight from Gun Facts 4.0

Myth: 13 children are killed each day by guns

Fact: Adults included – This “statistic” includes “children” up to age 19 or 24,
depending on the source. Since most violent crime is committed by males ages 16-24,
these numbers include adult gang members dying during criminal activity[99]
(incidentally, ‘child’ is defined by Webster as a person between birth and puberty,
typically 13-14 years).

Fact: Criminals are included - 70% of these deaths are adults, age 17-20, involved in
gang warfare. Half of the juveniles killed are involved in gang activity at the time of their
deaths, often involved in drug
related firefights.

Fact: Suicides and criminals
included - These numbers
include criminal activities and
suicides.[100] As suicides make up
more than ½ of all gun deaths,
the number drops even further,
to about 1.3 children a day. [101]
Fact: The federal government
lists the total firearm related
deaths for children were 612, or
1.7 per day, in 1998. 154 were
suicides[102]

Does this adequately answer your question?

 

[Lew Rodd]

That is the truth, it is not the guns, it's the people.
But I think there's one thing we can all agree on, if one person buys a gun, it is better for everyone if we all have one, in the hope they will cancel each other out, a bit like nuclear bombs, if you fire at me, I will fire at you, and it has been going on for so long now, it will never end.
We could not possibly get rid of all the guns in this country even if the desire was there.
Forget the statistics, even if half the population killed the other half.
Americans are in love with guns, using them or watching them being used, period.

 

[dev_null]

Lew, a straight answer to a simple question, please?

Are you here to learn, or to preach? If the former, take the time to read over the replies you've received. If the latter, take it elsewhere.

 

[CB1961]

People and children are killed in accidents and unfortunately on purpose everyday, by all types of weapons, and some non weapons. One child killed recently with a golf club - psycho father. I'll take my chances with the gun laws we already have, don't think it needs to get more restrictive, just need to educate people better, have better family values, more good mature social interaction for and with our children. I grew up in the mid-west in a small town and about everyone had guns hanging on the wall or standing in the hall or in the closet, in the pick-up truck. I had a gun when I was 8 years old, and funny enough don't remember any of us shooting one another...ever...so what has happened in the past 40 years or so? Must be something in the water as they say. Some people are just not ever going to accept anyone owning a gun, they will find something to make it all look like the end of the world and blame it on the guns....well I think IMHO that people have gone nuttier than squirrels and it doesn't have anything to do with guns either. We'll be banning baseball bats one of these days if we get on the slippery slope of blaming objects for the stupidity and insanity of people.

 

[JohnBT]

"Forget the statistics, even if half the population killed the other half.
Americans are in love with guns, using them or watching them being used, period."

You just don't get it. You think you get it, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

Now, if you'd come here asking for information, or guidance, or an opinion, or anything halfway reasonable I'd be inclined to discuss the deeper meanings of American gun ownership as I see it after 50 years of personal experience. I'd tell you what it means to my 84-year-old father who served in WWII in 13th Jungle Air Force the Pacific and then as a State Trooper. I'd tell you what it meant to my grandfather who was born 25 years after the Civil War. I'd tell you the third-, fourth-, and fifth-hand stories of what it meant to my blood relatives who fought in the Revolutionary War after clawing their way out of Scotland, Ireland and Wales and carving out a new life in the forests of Virginia.

But you came here with a chip on your shoulder spouting cut-and-paste soundbites and I don't have time for the likes of you.

John

 

[PaladinX13]

That is the truth, it is not the guns, it's the people.

What took you so long to figure this out?

But I think there's one thing we can all agree on, if one person buys a gun, it is better for everyone if we all have one

No, this isn't agreed upon, which is one of the reasons most (clearly not all, though) people support the idea that felons should not have the right to firearms.

in the hope they will cancel each other out, a bit like nuclear bombs, if you fire at me, I will fire at you, and it has been going on for so long now, it will never end.

By that logic, we should have wiped ourselves out via the Cold War a long time ago. Isn't it more likely an armed society is a polite society?

Forget the statistics

Why? You've mentioned the same statistics twice- the whole substance of your argument- then when those numbers are broken down (proven as suicides and violent crime) you want to stop using them?

Americans are in love with guns, using them or watching them being used, period.

So? Guns aren't inherently evil so saying that is like saying men are in love with women. Long before the stats you cited, the same was true but the crime was down. As late as the early 70s a highschooler could walk around NYC with a rifle on his back, onto the subway and to school where his coach would take his rifle for shooting club after-school. A little earlier back a teen could buy guns at gas stations, grocery, or by mail order catalog. By your logic, that level of freedom would have made the streets run red with blood. They didn't.

Maybe you should focus on a root cause rather than a "symptom" (it's arguable without guns things would be even worse).

 

[hso]

Lew Rodd,

You've based some of your negative opinions on false information.

The actualy currently available statistics from the CDC for accidental gunshot deaths for 0-9 year olds is clear for 2003, only 20 accidental deaths out of 300,000,000. Thats an accidental death rate of 20/300,000,000 or normalized per 100,000 of 0.0066 accidental deaths for 0-9 year olds/100,000 population. This is minscule and is so small as to be statistically unstable. Also, it is a trivial number from a public health standpoint and demonstrates that children are not at any credible risk from firearms while drowning was a much greater likelyhood by better than a factor of 100.

Remember that we all have opinions about serious issues, but the reality lies in the numbers.

Please respond to this statistic.

 

[Justin]

The next person to make accusations of trolling will have their account locked.

Capiche?