OP
OP
morcey2
Member
Like Im gonna pass up the chance to post this .gif!!!!!
OK!!! That's It! Everyone Out Of The Pool!!!!
I know how to hold my rifle, thank you...
- Thread starter morcey2
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OK!!! That's It! Everyone Out Of The Pool!!!!
TexasPatriot.308
Member
I was in the military almost 40 years ago, shoot almost every day. this "tactical" BS and all the other new stuff out there ticks me off too. I shoot my way, get the job done, probably shoot better than most. I dont have to watch TV shows telling me how, never been a lemming at anything. dont believe in must have magnums, wsms, new ammo when something like the proven Corelokt will do all I need. I think people are watching too much TV, reading and believing too much of stuff in Guns and Ammo (you know stuff like Mr. Boddington etc). I own my share of firearms (cant say that too loud). I am almost 58 and aint gonna change just cause some writer or tactical mumbo jumbo practitioners want me to do things their way.
They do [or at least some units do] teach you to square your body to the target and keep your elbows in now. Of course that's for people who are actually wearing Level IV body armor ... and have M4s with adjustable stocks.
I doubt there's any point to squaring up on the target if you're not wearing Level III or IV armor. Of course if you're not wearing ballistic armor and you're going for accuracy they still teach the chicken wing.
I doubt there's any point to squaring up on the target if you're not wearing Level III or IV armor. Of course if you're not wearing ballistic armor and you're going for accuracy they still teach the chicken wing.
Powderman
Member
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! I vapor locked when I read that one....!
Serioously, the mall-ninja crowd and the "operators" come up with new stuff all the time.
The raised arm and elbow actually form the pocket for the proper placement of the rifle stock--which in turn places the stock in the position for a proper cheek or spot weld; which in turn assists in proper eye relief, etc., etc.,.....
You go ahead and shoot that way. The position looks good.
sniper5
Member
The only time I'll speak up about anybody's technique is if it appears to be something unsafe. The last time was at an indoor range when a new shooter was firing a pistol for the first time with a friend and had her left thumb wrapped behind the grip with the slide just missing it. I walked over to her friend and tapped him and said "Uh, you might want to mention to her about that slide." and pointed at her and made a shaking motion with my left hand like I had just hurt myself. He looked and said "Oh, thanks man." And then stopper her and I could hear him explaining why getting hit by the slide hurts and where to place her left thumb.
xlman
Member
@ TexasPatriot.308,,,,, LOL! I'm an Army vet and left the tactics with my discharge also. Too funny! Modern tactics are like the Toyota Prius... do we all really need it???? (not me).
Ignition Override
Member
asia331:
"Roger that": .303, .308 and 30-06. All are classic military.
Let's count our blessings that tactical gear and certain chic rifles absorb such vast amounts of plastic money that it seriously limits price increases on Battle Rifles.
"Roger that": .303, .308 and 30-06. All are classic military.
Let's count our blessings that tactical gear and certain chic rifles absorb such vast amounts of plastic money that it seriously limits price increases on Battle Rifles.
Inebriated
Member
Just because MagPul didn't put it in their training videos doesn't mean it's not an effective way to shoot...
Do what you want, just put holes in whatever you're shooting at.
Do what you want, just put holes in whatever you're shooting at.
Morcey,
I think I've shot at that third juniper from the left on the middle ridge in the distance. Sure looks like homegrown sage there.
ARs, AKs, leverguns, and pumpguns I'll lower my right arm a bit on, but nothing whatever to do with "tactics" or the body armor I no longer wear. Just works out more comfortably for me.
My boltguns, including two Yugomausers among Rugers & a Weatherby, I shoot with a high elbow.
Personally, I'm about sick unto death of that "tactical" word.
Just wear your eye protection to guard against backsplash on those corn cans & shoot 'em any way you want to.
Denis
I think I've shot at that third juniper from the left on the middle ridge in the distance. Sure looks like homegrown sage there.
ARs, AKs, leverguns, and pumpguns I'll lower my right arm a bit on, but nothing whatever to do with "tactics" or the body armor I no longer wear. Just works out more comfortably for me.
My boltguns, including two Yugomausers among Rugers & a Weatherby, I shoot with a high elbow.
Personally, I'm about sick unto death of that "tactical" word.
Just wear your eye protection to guard against backsplash on those corn cans & shoot 'em any way you want to.
Denis
VT Deer Hunter
Member
First great loosing 30lbs! And i chicken wing it when shooting off hand all the time. Try not chicken winging it shooting a pellet gun at 30 yards and a target about 2" across.
Carl N. Brown
Member
I shoot off hand in silouette matches at 100m pigs, 150m turkeys, 200m rams, with a leveraction rifle, and chicken wing it, center butt on shoulder muscle. Elbow down just is not stable.
It may be tacticool to shoot an AR elbow down with the toe of the buttstock on the collarbone rather than center of the butt nestled on the shoulder muscle, but that don't work for .50 muzzleloader, .45-70 or even .30-30.
It may be tacticool to shoot an AR elbow down with the toe of the buttstock on the collarbone rather than center of the butt nestled on the shoulder muscle, but that don't work for .50 muzzleloader, .45-70 or even .30-30.
Buck Kramer
Member
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- Apr 17, 2009
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- 683
A mosin was not exactly made with ergonomics in mind, shoot it how it works for you...
Fat Boy
Member
Along with others, CONGRATULATIONS on the weight loss!! That is hard work, at least for me
Not to hijack this post, but when I shoot a rifle, which isn't very often, I extend my left hand/arm out on the forestock. My brother-in-law has stated that I should pull that arm back, "resting" my left elbow/upper arm against the body- says it is a more stable shooting position. My brother-in-law, BTW, is a seriously good shot and I know his comments are well-intended to help and I need all the help I can get. But the stance he describes feels strange to me, like the front end of the rifle isn't as controlled as I would like. Feels a bit more muzzle-heavy I guess-
Just curious as to what others think on this point???
Not to hijack this post, but when I shoot a rifle, which isn't very often, I extend my left hand/arm out on the forestock. My brother-in-law has stated that I should pull that arm back, "resting" my left elbow/upper arm against the body- says it is a more stable shooting position. My brother-in-law, BTW, is a seriously good shot and I know his comments are well-intended to help and I need all the help I can get. But the stance he describes feels strange to me, like the front end of the rifle isn't as controlled as I would like. Feels a bit more muzzle-heavy I guess-
Just curious as to what others think on this point???
tahunua001
Member
that is some chicken wing... I dont see anything wrong with it though. if that's how you learned to shoot and you shoot well then I dont think it's quite right that people try to teach you something new. I've been shooting for years but at navy rifle training some of the posits were just plain wierd. I shot like they told me just so I wouldn't be kicked off the line and as soon as that final score was computed I went straight back to the way I've shot since I was 11.
My chicken wing is at about a 45 degree angle, and I shoot a wide variety of long guns standing, offhand. Funny thing about shooting Mosins, I read about how badly they kicked, etc. so I tried the same tactic a lot of the original users did, rotating the gun a bit and tucking tight against the pectoral muscle. No chicken wing at all there, but then everyone will want to pick at you for the gun being cock-eyed! Ultimately I found the recoil to be no big deal holding it normally, at least shooting offhand.
Now, recently I've been going to the range with my girlfriend who is career military (started as an E-1, currently a 1SG, recently selected for E-9!) and having seen pictures of soldiers with their M4s way up the shoulder I was hesitant to hand her a more powerful long gun. Sure enough, her habit is to place the stock _very_ high in the pocket so I left the Buffalo Classic, etc back at my place. She also was crossing her thumbs while shooting my Glock 21SF and a helpful guy in the next lane pointed it out to me before the slide could bite her. I saw the previous post mentioning that and thought "huh, wonder if that was the guy next to us at AimHi the other day". She bought a range membership the first time we went (beat me to it!) so I figure we'll be able to spend a lot of time getting her up to speed on the weapons she is unfamiliar with and how to shoot them comfortably. She can shoot an M9, M4, etc quite well and she is a quick study so no worries there. I like the OP's response of handing the rifle to the critics to see "the right way to do it". I'll have to remember that one!
Now, recently I've been going to the range with my girlfriend who is career military (started as an E-1, currently a 1SG, recently selected for E-9!) and having seen pictures of soldiers with their M4s way up the shoulder I was hesitant to hand her a more powerful long gun. Sure enough, her habit is to place the stock _very_ high in the pocket so I left the Buffalo Classic, etc back at my place. She also was crossing her thumbs while shooting my Glock 21SF and a helpful guy in the next lane pointed it out to me before the slide could bite her. I saw the previous post mentioning that and thought "huh, wonder if that was the guy next to us at AimHi the other day". She bought a range membership the first time we went (beat me to it!) so I figure we'll be able to spend a lot of time getting her up to speed on the weapons she is unfamiliar with and how to shoot them comfortably. She can shoot an M9, M4, etc quite well and she is a quick study so no worries there. I like the OP's response of handing the rifle to the critics to see "the right way to do it". I'll have to remember that one!
The reason for the chicken wing is that by putting your elbow up you create a pocket in your shoulder for the stock to ride in that is very stable. A tactical stance has it's place in shooting but a chicken wing is not wrong, it is right most of the time.
ApacheCoTodd
member
Well let's see... No one's shooting at you, no one's gonna be shooting at you, you'll not be stickin' an' movin', you'll not de evadin' or fadin' and the bullets land where you want them to land... who the hell should care how you're holding the rifle if you're not endangering any one around you. tell 'em to piss up a rope and go volunteer to teach an NRA class or something.
Or, tell them your elbows up to keep unsolicited opinions at least that far away from you.
Or, tell them your elbows up to keep unsolicited opinions at least that far away from you.
Zerodefect
member
Fair enough. You do what works for you.
But last time I shot with a few Recon Marines, their technique was quite up to spec with modern 3gun type stances.
TexasPatriot.308
Member
zero, those recon marines probably werent even born when I served, served well and efficiently. I see the news and how troops carry and shoot their weapons...times change, ideas, training and warfare tactics change, but as far as what you read and see in todays media (TV, gun mags etc) most of that is hype. also todays battle weapons are different than in my day. like I said those recon marines you shoot with are from a different time than mine. our battles were jungle warfare, not urban and desert combat.
Strykervet
member
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- Nov 16, 2010
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- 1,610
Elbow in does provide a more stable platform, so I disagree with chicken wings making you more accurate, but whatever works for you and floats your boat...
It works almost like a rest. We taught firing from a nice tight "package". Although we were an SDM school and tactical shooting was of importance, this method of keeping the arms in had more to do with accuracy as we taught it than it did with anything else.
You just get less movement holding an M4 or AR in particular when keeping the arm tucked in and down, and when I mean tucked in and down, I mean have your tricep resting against the front of your body tightly. Keep your left arm in too for that nice tight package. The weapon just moves less this way, your whole body becomes the weapon's mount. Try it.
I believe in this, but unless asked for pointers at a range, I keep to myself unless it is safety related, then I'll go give you some unsolicited lessons. Nobody likes a no it all interrupting you at the range, if this is you, mind your own business!
It works almost like a rest. We taught firing from a nice tight "package". Although we were an SDM school and tactical shooting was of importance, this method of keeping the arms in had more to do with accuracy as we taught it than it did with anything else.
You just get less movement holding an M4 or AR in particular when keeping the arm tucked in and down, and when I mean tucked in and down, I mean have your tricep resting against the front of your body tightly. Keep your left arm in too for that nice tight package. The weapon just moves less this way, your whole body becomes the weapon's mount. Try it.
I believe in this, but unless asked for pointers at a range, I keep to myself unless it is safety related, then I'll go give you some unsolicited lessons. Nobody likes a no it all interrupting you at the range, if this is you, mind your own business!
browningguy
Member
Nothing to be ashamed of with that stance. Go watch the guys that win Across The Course Matches, most of them chicken wing too.
Hey Strykervet, Out of curiosity have you tried that stance with a gun with a more open grip? I was playing with a friends AR yesterday, and it felt fine tucked in like that (pretty much how i used to hold my paintball markers) but i couldn't make it work with my normal hunting rifle.
TexasPatriot.308
Member
medals dont compare to a enemy KIA.
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