I need 1851 Navy Assembly Help - BAD!

[Black Wolf]

Yes, I'm frustrated after 3 hours of trying to put this back together. First off, the friggin' new screw kit don't fit. That's minor - I'll use the old screws. But I can't get the stupid trigger to work in it.

Of the 2 small holes, which one of the two does the trigger get screwed into? Is it the same as the cylinder bolt - same hole I mean. Do they both use the same screw and hole? Or, does it use the hole behind it.

Help. Pictures would be nice.

 

[pohill]

Have you seen this?
https://www.vtigunparts.com/ab22400...asp?id=67&cat=Pietta+1851+Navy+.36cal,+.44cal

 

[Black Wolf]

yes. but the diagram doesn't show which hole the trigger goes in. I figured it out anyhow. However, what the problem is now, is that i pull the hammer back and in order to get it stay back, locked, I have to push the trigger forward...and then it locks in place. Otherwise, the hammer just falls forward.

Any ideas?

 

[pohill]

What exactly did you replace?

 

[Black Wolf]

I replaced, or was trying to replace, 3 internal parts (not counting the screws). I am replacing the "trigger bolt spring", the cylinder bolt, and hand pin/spring (the thing that attaches to the hammer).

Note: this is a 1977 Pietta - so things may have been made a little different back then compared to the new ones.

Okay. Fixed. The new "trigger bolt spring", for some reason, doesn't work in my gun. I put the old one in and, wala - she works. Geez, what a waste of money on the trigger bolt spring and screw kit. Maybe i'll send them back.

 

[Old Fuff]

Sorry you had so much trouble...

Parts from one manufacturer won't always fit in a revolver made by another one. Also, some new parts, such as the cylinder bolt, hammer, hand and trigger are often semi-finished blanks that have to be hand fitted. Trigger & bolt springs should interchange but sometimes don't. Compare the new vs. old to see where the difference is.

 

[SixShootinSam]

Yep you will probably need a file and slowly shape them. The older parts you took out should be a rough indication how to shape them, just not as much as those older parts.

 

[rifle]

Howdy. Some of the trigger/bolt springs are shorter than others and all that is needed is to push the trigger over till you see the spring tip is on the little step made for the spring and then tighten the screw. When the spring is then tightened down with the screw it's curvature straightens out and the spring is then long enough to stay on the trigger. Watch for the spring being a little too long and binding in the corner of that little step on the trigger. If it's a little long once it's tightened down then take it out and file a little ofin the edge.

 

[Black Wolf]

Update

Well, I installed all the parts except for the trigger spring. I sent the trigger spring and the too-small screws back to the shipper and requested the screws for the 1860 (instead of the 1851) to see if they will work. Only problem I have with it now is timing the rotation of the cylinder with pulling the hammer. Presently, when I pull the hammer back i have to give the cylinder some slight help in rotation. It's definately a timing thing. Maybe a Gunsmith will help me out. I thought this would've been a simple fix, but worked on it for 12 hours and got this far. Mostly because everytime I put a part in and it didn't work, I had to tear it down again to adjust or file something. Life I guess.

 

[Old Fuff]

Going back to the time of Col. Colt, the lockwork between the 1851 Navy and 1860 Army was identical. The only difference between the revolvers, other then the caliber, was that the 1860 Army had longer straps (backstrap, trigger guard and stocks), a slightly modified frame, and a different barrel assembly and cylinder.

However, while the lockwork will interchange within reproductions made by a certain company, they don't necessarily interchange between guns made by different ones. You have to order parts for your particular make and model, and other then springs and screws those parts have to be hand fitted in the same way the original guns were made.

It is sometimes impossible to diagnose problems over the Internet, but I wonder if you are causeing the cylinder to bind on the back of the barrel, by pushing the barrel wedge in too far. If that isn't the case, at this point you need to find someone with hands-on experience fixing cap & ball six-guns in your area, or return the gun to the seller and see what they say.

 

[ferg48]

yup

i can't add to the wisdom and experience stated so far, but I been messing with 1951 Navy pistols on and off for oh mebbe 20 yrs, mine or friends... and i'm here to tell ya they can be as cussed and hair-pulling and all-round contrary as all get out. i'd say something like 'i feel your pain' but thats too stupid.

i got some idea how frustrating it might be, there that ain't quite as stupid :banghead:

hope your overall BP shooting experience turns out much better

 

[mykeal]

Moving the cylinder into battery

Perhaps...

One possible cause of the problem of not moving fully into battery is the hand spring not being effective enough, thus the hand cannot complete cylinder rotation. The hand spring rides against the aft face of the channel the hand moves in, and essentially forces the end of the hand out of the opening in the frame behind the cylinder. It then engages the cutouts on the back of the cylinder and pushes the cylinder into position as it (the hand) moves up. If the spring is not strong enough the hand will slip out of the cylinder cutout and fail to complete the movement.

Solution: remove the hammer and hand/spring assembly and bend the spring back away from the hand. It's possible to break the spring, and it should not require much bending, so take it easy.

If it breaks and/or you decide to buy a new one, buy the hand/spring assembly; installing a new spring into the hand is not fun.

I've done this on 4 different Colts from 2 different makers.

 

[Black Wolf]

Thanks guys. What a great response from ya'll. When I get the new screws I'll probably take it to a gunsmith to fine tune the problem. I've built AKs, put a spring kit in a Sig 9mm, and tore down every bit of a mauser and nagant, and even worked on my nagant pistol to decrease the trigger pull - but this cotton picker really needs professional help. I'll let a gunsmith work on it for $40 or so and not be stressed out about it.

Once again, thank you guys so very much. Great ideas and great help.

 

[Old Fuff]

Actually, cap & ball actions are pretty easy, once you understand them. But the "understanding" part may not come easy. I once wrote a book on tuning C&B actions, but it was never published. Maybe I will have to do the manuscript again. For what it's worth, the Colt black powder revolvers are very similar to the later Single Action Army "Peacemaker" model 1873. You can find a number of books and articles on 'smithing it, and transition to either the 1851 Navy or 1860 Army is simple, and it translates to the earlier Pocket Model’s and Dragoon’s as well.

Unless some internal part has been damaged or broken I think you’ll find out that the solution to your troubles wasn’t difficult once the source of the problem was found. Do come back and tell us what it was.