i draw unit36 Muzzleloader tag NM bull tag so I need a good muzzleloader for this season. Any ideas where to start looking? Or maybe someone here knows of a good deal on a muzzleloader?I would like a thumbhole stock but for the right price I will take anything. Thanks George
I need a ML for Elk
- Thread starter FLORES425
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Sunray
Member
Cabela's is another option. A TC Omega runs $349.88. A CVA thumbhole stocked Optima Pro 209 runs $279.99. $309.99 with the 'Starter Kit'. You'll need that anyway. Comes with 20 250 grain sabotted bullets too. Of course, you'll have to work up the load and practice, off hand, at a 9" pie plate at 100 yards until you can hit it every time, just like any other rifle.
Got a budget in mind?
Got a budget in mind?
oneshooter
Member
What state? Several have outlawed ( for good reason) inlines for hunting during ML season.
Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
arcticap
Member
NM (New Mexico) was mentioned as the state in the opening post.
SEE PAGE 15: Legal Sporting Arms
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publications/documents/rib/2008/BG2008/index.html
The New Mexico hunting regulations does mention that there are some restricted ML deer hunts when inlines aren't allowed though:
SEE PAGE 6: Muzzleloader Firearm & Restricted Muzzleloader (for certain deer hunts)
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publications/documents/rib/2008/BG2008/index.html
SEE PAGE 15: Legal Sporting Arms
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publications/documents/rib/2008/BG2008/index.html
The New Mexico hunting regulations does mention that there are some restricted ML deer hunts when inlines aren't allowed though:
SEE PAGE 6: Muzzleloader Firearm & Restricted Muzzleloader (for certain deer hunts)
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publications/documents/rib/2008/BG2008/index.html
How about getting a rifle that will endure the ages.
I am not really a fan of these new in-lines that appear and disappear from the market faster than mushrooms in a rainy pasture.
Get an Enfield 3-band. It can take any game in the world, whether it is bear, lion, deer, elk, kudu or cape buffalo. A 500 grain minie at 1300 feet per second equals to 2000 foot pounds, and thats some serious safari grade power right there, not to mention at the nanofraction of the cost of a safari grade centerfire. I saw a box of Monolithic Solid .416 Rigby, 10 rounds, on a Cabelas catalog, and it cost $229.99!
29 dollars a round.
BTW, Enfields are BEAUTIFUL rifles. And I am sure your kids will be proud of it too in the future when you decide they are old enough to inherit it.
I am not really a fan of these new in-lines that appear and disappear from the market faster than mushrooms in a rainy pasture.
Get an Enfield 3-band. It can take any game in the world, whether it is bear, lion, deer, elk, kudu or cape buffalo. A 500 grain minie at 1300 feet per second equals to 2000 foot pounds, and thats some serious safari grade power right there, not to mention at the nanofraction of the cost of a safari grade centerfire. I saw a box of Monolithic Solid .416 Rigby, 10 rounds, on a Cabelas catalog, and it cost $229.99!
29 dollars a round.BTW, Enfields are BEAUTIFUL rifles. And I am sure your kids will be proud of it too in the future when you decide they are old enough to inherit it.
ArcherandShooter
Member
I'd suggest a Hawken (replica, of course) in .50 from T/C or the like.
That's the rifle that the mountain men used when their lives depended on being able to hunt wapiti.
That's the rifle that the mountain men used when their lives depended on being able to hunt wapiti.
arcticap
Member
Yes, the Apex rifles will usually shoot just as good as anything else in it's price class:
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2840759
The fellow posting below is a regular on the other forum and sold his .45 Apex to his good internet friend to buy other guns. He often posted about his good groups and this was his 2nd Winchester ML I believe. I think that he bedded the barrel on his first one.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2815013&mpage=1&key=?
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2840759
The fellow posting below is a regular on the other forum and sold his .45 Apex to his good internet friend to buy other guns. He often posted about his good groups and this was his 2nd Winchester ML I believe. I think that he bedded the barrel on his first one.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2815013&mpage=1&key=?
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genetics_jo
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You might want to steer clear of in-lines if you plan on shooting smokepoles for years to come. The trend is showing to be that states are banning the use of in-lines during "Muzzleloading Hunts". Oregon already has and so has Idaho and several other states. It's only a matter of time when all states will specify the use of only percussion cap or flintlock for hunting during a classified "Muzzleloading Hunt Season". Some of these newer "muzzleloading" rifles are not much different from a centerfire in terms of ballistics and range and the use of such guns during a "Muzzleload hunt" becomes somewhat hypocritical.
I'm glad I listened to my buddies when I got into the fine art of muzzleloading hunts. I didn't go as archaic as most of them and buy a flintlock (just couldn't bring myself to carry around two types of gunpowder). But I did purchase a Thompson Center Renegade .54 caliber 1:66 roundball twist side percussion cap rifle with beautiful wooden stock. I've also enjoyed working up powder loads, playing around with round balls versus rounded bullets. It's also been challenging to work out distance shooting--starting at 25 yards, then 50 yards and now 75 yards. Plus, working on "speed loading" adds to the whole mystique of smokepole shooting.
Course, if all you wanted was an elk tag and this was the way to get it in NM and you don't plan on hunting smokepole-style in the future you're best bet may be to get one of the modern in-lines. They're more akin to modern centerfire rifles what with pyrodex pellets, saboted bullets and shotgun ignition caps making loading for your next shot almost as easy as your single shot 30-06.
I'm glad I listened to my buddies when I got into the fine art of muzzleloading hunts. I didn't go as archaic as most of them and buy a flintlock (just couldn't bring myself to carry around two types of gunpowder). But I did purchase a Thompson Center Renegade .54 caliber 1:66 roundball twist side percussion cap rifle with beautiful wooden stock. I've also enjoyed working up powder loads, playing around with round balls versus rounded bullets. It's also been challenging to work out distance shooting--starting at 25 yards, then 50 yards and now 75 yards. Plus, working on "speed loading" adds to the whole mystique of smokepole shooting.
Course, if all you wanted was an elk tag and this was the way to get it in NM and you don't plan on hunting smokepole-style in the future you're best bet may be to get one of the modern in-lines. They're more akin to modern centerfire rifles what with pyrodex pellets, saboted bullets and shotgun ignition caps making loading for your next shot almost as easy as your single shot 30-06.
frontiergander
Member
My first was the Winchester X-150 and i removed some stock material touching the barrel and then free floated the barrel with aluminum shims i cut from a popcan.
The Apex i did not do any work to and it was an excellent rifle.
It didnt matter what was being put down the barrel!
240g maxiball with 80g pyrodex select and fiber wad. I prefer powerbelts and sighted in with the 275g powerbelt at which shot one hole groups at 71 yards. Sold it before i could try 100yrds with powerbelts :banghead:
X-150,
http://ganderspowerbeltforu.powergu...ester-x-150-accuracy-improver-awesome-t25.htm
The Apex i did not do any work to and it was an excellent rifle.
It didnt matter what was being put down the barrel!
240g maxiball with 80g pyrodex select and fiber wad. I prefer powerbelts and sighted in with the 275g powerbelt at which shot one hole groups at 71 yards. Sold it before i could try 100yrds with powerbelts :banghead:
X-150,
http://ganderspowerbeltforu.powergu...ester-x-150-accuracy-improver-awesome-t25.htm
frontiergander
Member
Yes that wad was the ticket! The Maxiballs fit really loose and i figure it was the blow by that was causing the poor accuracy. Once i put the wad, i was happy.
arcticap
Member
The original quote directly from the "for sale" ad stated that the wad was a wool wad and not a fiber wad. The quote appears just over the picture of the Maxiball target. The type of wad may or may not matter, but for the sake of accurate conversation I'll mention it.
arcticap
Member
A wood wad (a.k.a. - "Bore Button") is flexible and can be impregnated or coated with a patch lube. It's thicker than a vegetable fiber wad which is harder and more like a stiff wafer because it's highly compressed organic matter. The hard fiber wads are usually used in BP cartridges or in revolver cylinders over the powder.
When a wad is used in a muzzle loader, it helps to prevent more of the hot gases from blowing past the patched ball or conical, which may improve consistency and accuracy. It acts like a gas check.
Sometimes wool wads improve overall performance and sometimes they don't. It depends on the gun and the load. The rigid fiber wads are susceptible to cracking and chipping.
Many sizes of Wool Wad Bore Buttons for rifle calibers can be found below by typing "wad" into the search box:
http://rmcsports.com/catalog.htm
When a wad is used in a muzzle loader, it helps to prevent more of the hot gases from blowing past the patched ball or conical, which may improve consistency and accuracy. It acts like a gas check.
Sometimes wool wads improve overall performance and sometimes they don't. It depends on the gun and the load. The rigid fiber wads are susceptible to cracking and chipping.
Our pistol wads are made of dry-lubricated, high-density 100% woven wool. No grease is needed. They safely seal each chamber and prevent fouling. Per 100.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...cts&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=wad&noImage=0
Ideal for long-distance or cowboy-action shooting, our Vegetable Fiber Wads are specially engineered for 100% load density when using black powder. Made from fire- and water-resistant vegetable fiber gasket material, every wad is biodegradable. NRA-accepted for black-powder cartridge competitions. Per 1,000.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...cts&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=wad&noImage=0
Many sizes of Wool Wad Bore Buttons for rifle calibers can be found below by typing "wad" into the search box:
http://rmcsports.com/catalog.htm
frontiergander
Member
I used the ox yoke wonder wad. Says its 100% wool.
scrat
Member
those fiber wads are pretty good. i actually use them for my walker. allows me to get about 55 grains in the cylinder. not bad.
Grey Wolf
Member
George, I lived in northern NM for 17 years. I belonged to several muzzleloader groups there and hunted with a muzzleloader. If you have not bought a gun yet and don't live too far from Espanola I recommend that you attend a monthly match of the Rio Grande Brigade and check out the guns the folks are shooting. I admit to being a history nut and a reenactor, so I have no interest in anything but "traditional" weapons. A good traditional rifle is accurate at up to 200 yards, so who needs plastic and non-traditional ignition systems. I wouldn't use anything less than a .54 caliber. It's my favorite because it hits hard and shoots straight in a strong wind. It's better in the brush than a smaller caliber too. IMO the best value in a traditional rifle is the Lyman Great Plains. It's the mass produced rifle most like the original Plains Rifles. I recommend them to new shooters. I won't type any more. Ping me offline if you want more words.
I may be a little late to this party and I may sound a little harsh here. My personal thoughts are for you to go buy the cheapest legal shooter you can find. If you have never shot BP and apply for a ML permit and wait to see if you draw before you buy one then you probably won't stick with it. Especially with only a couple of months left to learn and develop skills required.
Don't get me wrong here as I am all for anyone becoming involved in the BP game, particularly the traditional. Anytime one is shooting is good for all of us. I just like to see a little respect for the sport and the animal.
Of course, this is all my personal opinion.
Don't get me wrong here as I am all for anyone becoming involved in the BP game, particularly the traditional. Anytime one is shooting is good for all of us. I just like to see a little respect for the sport and the animal.
Of course, this is all my personal opinion.
Cosmoline
Member
I'd suggest going with a traditional cap rifle with a twist for PRB and getting it in .54. Take some time to learn how to use it, and build your kit up. In the end you'll enjoy the experience more.
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