I never knew that...

Status
Not open for further replies.
If the commandment really meant "thou shalt not kill" then anyone who causes a car accident that kills someone else is going to Hell.

Did you explain to your friend that the Bible was not written in English originally?
 
he thinks the Castle Doctrine is a license (and requirement) to kill

Tell him he has to provide specific examples where it says you are required to kill or admit he misunderstood the laws of another country and spoke out of willful ignorance.
 
Moderators,

I see posts with irrelevant data that could lead this into a "My god is better than your god" spiral.

Thanks


Posters,

What religion you are or are not, is not relevant to this thread.

Other that the OP's decision to post his religion, there is no real need to delve into anyone else’s.

Thanks
 
Assuming your religion is what I think it is (LDS), I can say that defending your life is NOT against the teachings of your religion. John Browning (the father of John Moses Browning) was actively converted to the LDS church so that the saints had a gunsmith and gunmaker with them as they crossed the plains.

There are several instances where the men took up arms to fight for their country as well as for their families at home.

Secondly, you do not shoot to kill, from a legal standpoint. In ALL cases of self defense, you shoot to stop (the threat). In some cases, this results in death of the attacker.

You hope not to kill the attacker, but it just so happens that the same defensive method of stopping attackers fastest happens to be the same way as killing effectively. The difference is that you don't "finish the guy off". Once he stops fighting, you stop shooting. You don't walk over the guy and put a couple extra round into him to make sure he is dead. You make sure the threat is gone, and then you get medical help for the attacker, if possible. He may or may not die.
 
Moderators,

I see posts with irrelevant data that could lead this into a "My god is better than your god" spiral.

Thanks

Clearly stating what certain religions specify for self defense has nothing to do with "My god is better than your god". This is total speculation.
 
Tell him to read the Book of Mormon again....

Alma 43:47

47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion.

this is just one of MANY examples.

to NOT engage in self defense is against our religion

easy answer... for the win.

and check out Zion's Camp for more gun owning and self defense minded Mormons.

http://p198.ezboard.com/Zions-Camp/bzionscamp
 
Last edited:
A) The Ten Commandments forbid murder, not killing. They are found first in Exodus 20, and later repeated in Deuteronomy 5.

B) In chapters 19-21, Deuteronomy draws very clear distinctions between lawful killing, accidental killing, and murder, and very clearly lays out the penalties for each if deemed punishable.

It is my experience that the majority of people who throw the Bible, and specifically the 10 commandments, in your face in discussions about the morality of killing are also people who neither believe in scripture, nor study the book to begin with. They certainly don't live their own lives by its guidance.

Personally, I don't have a problem with people of differing religions from mine who believe differently than I do about killing in self defense, and who support their belief WRT self defense killing with examples drawn from their own religion. That boils down to a theological argument, and what they say may or may not resonate with me. But I do take exception to those who are fundamentally ignorant about my own faith and who attempt to frame their arguments about a given issue around a flawed, incomplete, or absent understanding of my faith.
 
The religious issue never was one, I'm well aware of my faiths long history with guns, the scriptures, and it's current stance.

I insisted last night, after pointing out that the Castle Doctrine does not legally require anyone to kill anyone, that he provide evidence to support his claim else I would continue to consider it to be made up. Thirteen hours later it still hasn't come, and I don't expect it anytime soon.
 
Since we all know it doesn't and we can suspect that your esteemed opponent in the debate was too lazy to have done his homework and can be expected to be too lazy to defend his position with facts, I don't think you have to worry about a well prepared response.
 
Sounds like The Case of the Accidental Straw Man.

You could just tell him (I realize it may be more than "just," but bear with me) that you're apparently arguing about something despite a disagreement in what the term at issue means, which makes it hard to argue with any hope of resolution or enlightenment. You can't argue about whether iguana tastes like chicken without some knowledge of the taste of chicken!

Point to (for instance, and not suggesting this is the best place necessarily) the Wikipedia page on the concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

I'll admit I just edited it lightly -- but don't blame, me, please for its overall awkwardness. It was worse 5 minutes ago ;)

Also, as to whether the 10 commandments, as correctly translated, say "murder" or "kill," you could ask him which one made sense, in the context of a religion which commands the death penalty for a good many offenses. (Or any of the several religions which all agree that Those 10 Are The Right Ones :))

timothy
 
Last edited:
Also, remind this guy that the first time Jesus sent out His disiples He said that no one was allowed to bring their sword. The second time however Jesus said if anyone didn't have a sword, that they should sell their cloak and buy one before leaving. That's the most frequently convienently forgotten detail regarding weapons in all the scriptures.
 
Exodus 22:2
"If the thief is caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top