I shoot 0.6 MOA at 500 yards. Believe it or not.

[JFrank]

@Varminterror
If I was to take on long rang hunting or one mile steel I would most likely choose a 300 wsm 185 juggernaut , just for the easy tuning aspect.

 

[MR WICK]

I wondered if the 6.5CM was the right ‘question,’ My first thought was he would probably do better with a long-action cartridge, the 6.5CM’s merits aside. I made that tongue-in-cheek comment about the .50 BMG… although I wasn’t totally joking. The OP said money was no object.

We can't shoot 50 caliber at my range.

Oh. Varminator can attest I'm no natural. I started out with a 22lr, then went to a 223, now I'm up to 308.

I've shot thousands of rounds. If you do something 5 to 6 days a week for over a year you get decent at it. I have a million targets that look like the crater of the moon. And you will notice substantial gaps in between my posts. That's because I'm out there shooting everyday and trying my best to fine tune myself.

 

[Mk-211]

When I used to have time to go out to the desert, we set targets from 1K to 2K.

Most of the guys shooting 50 BMG, 408CT and 338 LM could make hits all the way out to 2K.

If I was going for King of the Mile+, I would be looking for a 375 CT. Of course there's always going to be the next extreme long range caliber.

I know that when I send 50 BMG rounds that far out, Hornady AMAX are the minimum to start. Watching AP rounds miss by feet sucks.

 

[JFrank]

The honest truth is that when you put in the work it will show on the target, the 500 yard group is very good.

 

[Walkalong]

When you're spending that kind of time/money shooting (Powder/primers/bullets/barrels), and say money is no object, there is no monetary reason whatsoever not to buy a world class rifle to match your finely honed skills. How often do you go through barrels at that rate?

Anyway, buy a top class custom or semi custom rifle and quit playing with middle of the pack "stock" rifles.

 

[MR WICK]

When you're spending that kind of time/money shooting (Powder/primers/bullets/barrels), and say money is no object, there is no monetary reason whatsoever not to buy a world class rifle to match your finely honed skills. How often do you go through barrels at that rate?

Anyway, buy a top class custom or semi custom rifle and quit playing with middle of the pack "stock" rifles.

My apologies. I don't think I should have said money is no object. I should have said I would like to stay under 10k. I don't want to buy another precision rifle after my next one for a long time. I feel all of the shooting and practicing that I've been doing has led me to this point where I get that one rifle that I stick with and use in competitions.

 

[Charlie98]

We can't shoot 50 caliber at my range.

Not many ranges can take it. I tend to do my shooting in the desert... so I can shoot what I want (with the understanding that I am still responsible for each bullet that leaves the barrel.)

I've shot thousands of rounds. If you do something 5 to 6 days a week for over a year you get decent at it.

No harm, no foul. I took your question at face value.

I bought a Savage 10 TAC in .308, (the Cabelas cheapo version,) with the intention of taking it to 1000yds. I do not have an unlimited budget... so I bought used glass... but I already handload... so I have a leg up. I've had it out to 700yds so far, with good results. I have had to learn how to shoot a scope, however, and it's a pretty steep learning curve... I've never been a scope person. Personally... I would take your Savage as far as you can. You've obviously been putting in the hours, why not see what you can do? If you get frisky, spin a new barrel on it, or put some good glass on it (with the idea of taking the scope with you to the next rifle.) You might surprise yourself.

As I mentioned in my previous post... I think you need to go the other direction... a bigger .30/.30+ cal vs the 6.5CM if you are committed to shooting the mile.

 

[MR WICK]

Not many ranges can take it. I tend to do my shooting in the desert... so I can shoot what I want (with the understanding that I am still responsible for each bullet that leaves the barrel.)



No harm, no foul. I took your question at face value.

I bought a Savage 10 TAC in .308, (the Cabelas cheapo version,) with the intention of taking it to 1000yds. I do not have an unlimited budget... so I bought used glass... but I already handload... so I have a leg up. I've had it out to 700yds so far, with good results. I have had to learn how to shoot a scope, however, and it's a pretty steep learning curve... I've never been a scope person. Personally... I would take your Savage as far as you can. You've obviously been putting in the hours, why not see what you can do? If you get frisky, spin a new barrel on it, or put some good glass on it (with the idea of taking the scope with you to the next rifle.) You might surprise yourself.

As I mentioned in my previous post... I think you need to go the other direction... a bigger .30/.30+ cal vs the 6.5CM if you are committed to shooting the mile.

That's actually a great idea. I'm dumb sometimes. Better glass and see how far out I can truly go. Thank you.

That's why I ask questions here.

 

[Nature Boy]

@MR WICK

I’m still curious what ammo you used to ring up those 500 and 700 yard groups?

 

[Walkalong]

I don't want to buy another precision rifle after my next one for a long time

All the more reason to go big, but it's hard to help someone who keeps moving the goal posts.

 

[Varminterror]

@Varminterror
If I was to take on long rang hunting or one mile steel I would most likely choose a 300 wsm 185 juggernaut , just for the easy tuning aspect.

I’m building a 375 Cheytac for 2023/24 season, then will rebarrel 416 Stroker or STC version (same bolt face), built on that Bat action I told you about - but the job is > 2 miles.

300wm WAS the first round I ever shot out to a mile though, and I still use a 300wm and a 300 PRC for my “long range” hunting rifles - and I DID build a 300wsm for my wife when we first got together (rebarreled a Savage 12 with a Shilen tube, long gone now). But the 1 Mile series (kind of an oddball game in the ELR world) is dominated by big cases, and ridiculously biased to 33XC. Here’s the list from the Ko1M match (US) this year - I guess the French European Ko1M did have several smaller cases, supposedly in part because of laws in many EU countries limiting cartridges or rifle configurations, but the Texas finals match data is here:



For comparison, here’s the 2022 King of 2 Miles cartridge list:



Cutting Edge Lasers seem to be the bullet, regardless of cartridge. I heard a guy saying last month that Lasers won every match this season which qualified towards Ko2M, but I didn’t do the research myself to confirm whether he was correct or not. So I bought 1000 400grn Lasers over Black Friday (ouchie!!!) to get through my first barrel.

 

[Varminterror]

If anyone is skeptical about me or my shooting I have no problems posting pictures or videos. You have to take into account that I shoot 5 days a week.

I’m a fan of LR youtubery, so absolutely, please do take some videos in these coming days of your set up at the range to deliver these sub-1/2moa groups at 500 and 700 yards. Did you end up getting a new bipod or front rest? Any rear support yet? I’d also be interested to watch your reloading process to make that ammo on that Dillon progressive, dropping charges as well, since you’re making phenomenal ammo after such a short time using a press.

Also - you mentioned before shooting the Hornady 168 A-Max’s, but then pointed to a Hornady “Competition” bullet and pictured a hollow point - which bullet are you shooting in these pictured groups?

What load development method did you use to work up this 38.9grn of - I assume 2495, since that’s what is pictured on the bench?

 

[MR WICK]

I’m a fan of LR youtubery, so absolutely, please do take some videos in these coming days of your set up at the range to deliver these sub-1/2moa groups at 500 and 700 yards. Did you end up getting a new bipod or front rest? Any rear support yet? I’d also be interested to watch your reloading process to make that ammo on that Dillon progressive, dropping charges as well, since you’re making phenomenal ammo after such a short time using a press.

Also - you mentioned before shooting the Hornady 168 A-Max’s, but then pointed to a Hornady “Competition” bullet and pictured a hollow point - which bullet are you shooting in these pictured groups?

What load development method did you use to work up this 38.9grn of - I assume 2495, since that’s what is pictured on the bench?

What I am using is in the pictures below. I got the load amount when checking the book pictured below and cross-referencing the materials I was using. It tells you specifically what to use.

I'm not shooting lights out. Why is this so hard to believe? I don't consider my groupings to be good.

 

[Varminterror]

I'm not shooting lights out. Why is this so hard to believe? I don't consider my groupings to be good.

This is why:

I have my doubts the target posted is from 700 yards and I base that on the fact that I have highly specialized equipment that won’t lay down groups that tight at 600 yards, and I work my tail off to be competitive, in comparison the op has not posted any of his load development questions or results that approach the level of understanding and reloading skills it takes to shoot that tight.

So I’m my mind we either have a phenom future hall of fame shooter or a guy that should buy a lottery ticket on the way home.

Lots of us have been doing what you’re just starting into for a lot of years, lots of rounds, lots of rifles, and know what it takes to shoot .38moa at 700yrds. Accidentally picking a load out of a manual, or shooting this with FGMM only a few months on the horn, well…

I’m looking for a house, need an ocean front view, but I don’t wanna leave Kansas - would you happen to have anything like that for sale?

 

[MR WICK]

This is why:



Lots of us have been doing what you’re just starting into for a lot of years, lots of rounds, lots of rifles, and know what it takes to shoot .38moa at 700yrds. Accidentally picking a load out of a manual, or shooting this with FGMM only a few months on the horn, well…

I’m looking for a house, need an ocean front view, but I don’t wanna leave Kansas - would you happen to have anything like that for sale?

You're ripping me because of the way that I shoot? Why come on here and boast about what I don't consider great shooting. Every day I'm out there. Wind, rain, cold, doesn't matter. I have an undeniable love for this sport. And when I have a love for something I strive for perfection. I can't count how many thousands of rounds I've fired. How much brass I've picked up or how many terrible targets I've throw in the garbage. I've shown you everything that I have. Everything that I've done every step of the way since joining here. I don't claim to know everything. I claim the opposite. I'm humble, I don't brag, I don't look for accolades, because I will never be good enough for me. And that's why I'm out there, everyday, putting in the work, to try and be the best I can be for me. If you think I shoot well at 500 and 700 yards then thank you for the compliment. If you think I come on here and post BS pictures because you can't do what I do then I'm sorry.

One time and one time only will I go out there and film myself doing what I do. There are always going to be naysayers. People who want to put you down for whatever reason. I have nothing to prove to anybody but myself. But I will film video so that people can see what hard work, determination, and patience will yield in the end.

 

[Demi-human]

If you think I come on here and post BS pictures because you can't do what I do then I'm sorry.

Hey, I’m on your side, but, having been here for months, you have to know who is asking these questions.
They are able to do what you do.

Sleeping.

Experts don’t like having their time wasted. Vetting who gets some of their expertise is not over the line.
You are vehement that you are serious and truthful. Let this go then, and talk about the rifle.
Talk of some of your load work up.
What do you not like about your rig now?
What is holding you back from this target? Math? Glass?

I am of the opinion that bigger bullets are better ones. Inertia is a great thing. I would not step down to a 6.5 to go further.

The nice things are rifles, as opposed to vehicles, is that you can remove the stock and turn it into an off-roader for hunting, something pretty for the bench, or something sporty for the range. Just switch the chassis, or stock.


While it is a noble goal for some, it’s a parlor trick for me. Practical accuracy farther than I can see is of no use to me. But it would be fun to say I did it. Buying and building just for this single goal is frivolous, (to me remember,) I would make use of the rifle I’ve got and take a poke at it.
After I was addicted to it and couldn’t stop, then, I would think about building.

I borrowed a street bike for a test drive, before I bought one. Turns out, dirt is better. Saved $14,000 on a Triumph Speed Triple that I’d probably tree at 160mph. Pavement makes me silly sometimes.

 

[JDeere]

See Post 10...

 

[Charlie98]

I borrowed a street bike for a test drive, before I bought one. Turns out, dirt is better. Saved $14,000 on a Triumph Speed Triple that I’d probably tree at 160mph. Pavement makes me silly sometimes.

I bought my first Ducati from a dirt rider that bought it for his first street bike. He found out you can’t ride like that on the street. He rode it for about a year… parked it and never touched it again.

 

[Walkalong]

You're ripping me because of the way that I shoot? Why come on here and boast about what I don't consider great shooting.......

It is great shooting, and especially for someone has just starting ourt, is using average equipment, who just started reloading, and picked a load out of a book.

It simply doesn't match what you post.

Perhaps you just don't communicate well, are cherry picking 1 out of 100 targets and wanting to shoot that or better all the time, but you post as if that is average shooting for you, then talk like you don't know anything, and if so, you don't need our help.

 

[JFrank]

Mr. Wick you shoot very well.
Sanctioned matches is where a shooter gets a chance to put some targets together for averages over a weekend and throughout a shooting season.
Hopefully you’ll get a chance to attend a few.
Please share your 308 data when you get things complied as I have a 308 that I would like to improve the load.
Thx
Jim
Added; the bullets you posted are different, which do you prefer ? Also how do you get enough speed from 38.9 grains of accurate 2495 to maintain the lack of vertical dispersion ?

 

[Nature Boy]

What I am using is in the pictures below. I got the load amount when checking the book pictured below and cross-referencing the materials I was using. It tells you specifically what to use.

I'm not shooting lights out. Why is this so hard to believe? I don't consider my groupings to be good.

It’s hard to believe because it’s unbelievable and I’ll explain why.

I regularly shoot 600 yard F Class matches. I made NRA High Master shooting a 308 so I have some experience with the cartridge. I shoot with and against state champions, national champions and record holders. All of them have thousands of dollars in custom rifles and equipment with years dedicated to load development, practice and competitions.

With all of that said, your posted targets would beat many of them regularly using a stock Savage, FMJ commercial ammo and/or an undeveloped load randomly picked out of a manual.

It’s possible you’re a natural talent and if so we’re just asking questions to understand how a guy with so little experience is able to do what he’s claiming. That’s understandable considering……

Only 9 months ago you were asking questions about how to zero your scope.

6 months ago you were asking which .308 rifle you should buy.

5 months ago you bought the Savage

4 months ago you were asking what ammo you should buy

3 months ago you were asking how to clean your rifle

2 months ago you were asking how to get into reloading and what dies you should buy.

And now this week you want to buy a new rifle to shoot out to one mile.

I don’t know you @MR WICK so taking all of this at face value you’re either an incredible shooting prodigy or you’re catfishing us.

 

[C-grunt]

Im going with catfish.

Or his laser is displaying 500 feet and not 500 yards...

 

[Varminterror]

I look forward to the video delivering this kind of group at 700yrds. Today or tomorrow, I suppose?

 

[C-grunt]

Hell, I want see 100 yard groups

 

[mavracer]

I look forward to the video delivering this kind of group at 700yrds. Today or tomorrow, I suppose?

Me too