"I shot an arrow in the air, it fell to earth I know not where...."

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CalamityJane

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Well I know that this is a pretty dumb question, but, I've just got to ask it anyway. What happens when you shoot (a gun) up into the air? As in, to scare off dogs or coyotes sniffing around way too close to our goats and chickens. Haven't seen them come this close before today; would prefer to scare them off, or at least try to. Does the bullet or pellets just go up, and then fall to earth? (I mean, how dumb does that sound that I'm asking that--of course they go up, and then come down.)

But is there any danger to anyone or animal when they fall back down? How does that work? How hard do they fall down? We live in the country, and it would not be illegal for us to discharge a firearm; but I don't want to inadvertantly hurt something.

I also am aware that I can probably scare them off without firing off a gun, and will try this too. But if I need to REALLY scare them, I want to know what happens when you shoot up into the air. Before I have to.

Thanks guys, all my patient mentors.
 
Thank Goodness for TV

Never thought I'd say that!

I think Mythbusters answered this. Quick summary (and others feel free to correct me)

If it's fired perfectly up in the air it comes down next to harmless. But since holding it perfecting verticle it maintains some form of inertia/spin which causes it to be a very nasty thing when it comes down.
 
mythbusters actually talked to a real expert on this, a doctor who treated one person who was hit in the leg and injured by a falling bullet, and knew for a fact of someone else killed by a falling bullet from being struck in the head.

Their point was if you shoot them STRAIGHT up, when they fall back down, their terminal velocity and weight is not enough to be deadly or even injure you very badly. since most people dont shoot them perfectly straight up they can maintain a "ballistic trajectory", and just travel in a big arc while maintaining enough speed to be deadly, especially rifle rounds.
 
Buy some blanks and you won't have to lose any sleep over it.

OR take aim and take out the offending critter. You'll know it didn't fly away to hurt a good human. :)

Justin
 
Other simple solution: shoot into the dirt away from anything you wouldn't like to hit. Makes a "bang" either way.
 
If you live out in the country, I would build a small bullet trap out of sand and stuff and just shoot into it when you want to scare them. And use shot rounds in your pistol for it. They would not even injure a person from more than about 50 feet unless you hit them in the eye.
 
If it is a cayote shoot it, nothing wrong with that, hell that would be fun. If it is a dog shoot into the ground why would you ever shoot into the air instead of the ground.
 
Well mythbusters did a thing on this, they basically came to the conclusion that if a gun is fired directly vertical in the air, then the bullet coming down to the earth will not be too bad. However, from an angle, it's slightly different, like you know how a mosin nagant's sight has settings for 2000 yards, well sure you'd have to arch it, but you can still do damage.

The bullets usually go like the 3 miles in the air (rifle bullets) then come down, now something dropped 3 miles, if it hits something, it will have a little force to it. I hear around 200fps, which for something 130 grains or so, could mess up your day.

Will it kill if it hits. Well, it depends on where it hits, and bullet type, and how the bullet goes down. If it's a spitzer, I'd say it has a higher chance because it's "sharper" than a roundnose bullet hitting flesh. It could also possibly crack a skull, too.

However, a rifle bullet could end up in the next town if fired on an angle.

But lots of stuff could happen as it's going down, like it could hit a tree, or a big gust of wind, ect.

Pistol bullets would probably be less dangerous.

A shotgun fired in the air, unless you use slugs, wouldnt do really any damage. I've heard of one guy who was walking, and a guy was duck hunting near by, and he got hit with falling shotgun pellets, and he said it was like "hot rain."

Really, the bullets technically shouldnt do much, but people have died from it.

However, people fire guns in the air all the time in other 3rd World Countries, and people usually do OK, so one or two bullets fired in the air probably wont too bad.

To scare an animal off, you could always fire at the ground, like into grass. You could also buy or make blanks to scare animals off, or just go throw firecrackers.
 
Coincidently, there are a couple of questions on current Texas Parks and Wildlife home study course about that. Number 8 shot (almost the lightest) can travel up to 750 feet, 22LR 1.5 miles. And yes, some of the centerfire bullets (if fired at around 30 to 45 degree angle) said to travel 3 to 4 miles.
 
Aerodynamics aside, it would fall at the same rate it went up.
But we can't ignore aerodynamcis...


On the way up, gravity is pulling down, and drag is pulling down, while inertia is pushing up. Eventually the two forces outweigh the one and the bullet heads back down.

BUT on the way down gravity is pulling down, drag is "pulling up", and inertia started at zero when the bullet was at it's zenith.

So basically, on the way down, the bullet is speeding up slower than it was slowing down on the upward trip. This means it may not reach the supersonic speeds it had on the uptrip when leaving the barrel of the gun. Usually, it'll come down slower than it went up (if it falls the same height it took to slow down and stop, etc.)


Of course aerodynamics affect it's max speed (terminal velocity), but if it freefell from high enough (think outer atmosphere, like Re-entry Vehicles) it COULD travel at supersonic speeds again.
 
As I said, firecrackers. If they're illegal in your state, ask any high school kid where you can buy some. While you should bring your gun when confronting an animal, he wont recognize it as a firearm and run away, and firing shots just wastes ammo, and could get you legal trouble somehow, while firecrackers thrown really wont get you in any trouble at all.
 
So let me get this right..

You want to give the offending critter a "warning shot", because you don't want to kill them, right? How about teaching them a lesson... Rubber Buckshot. Park rangers use it all the time on "dumpster" bears, and it actually breaks some of them of the habbit.
 
There really is no simple answer, besides being illegal many places.

If fired perfectly straight up then the bullet on its way down should only reach terminal velocity maximum on its way down, which may or may not be deadly depending on its mass and drag, but will injure and could possible seriously injure or kill. Firing a shotgun slug for example into the air, which is quite heavy, would be more than lethal on its return to earth without even reaching terminal velocity as it would still impact with a high amount of foot pounds due to its mass. However small birdshot would be more along the lines of being hit by a bb from a low powered bb gun, still unpleasant, and dangerous, but not likely lethal or to cause serious injury unless very unlucky.

However that is when fired perfectly up, a feat not likely to be achieved from a hand held arm, and in which case it will still have a trajectory. Then it turns into a question of the power of the round and the trajectory it is fired as to how dangerous it is on its return. Basicly though it is still very lethal quite often.

Shot however is round, and has high drag, and small shot high drag and low mass. So it is not as dangerous, however a bullet has more mass and less drag and can remain dangerous.

So lethal or not, nobody wants themselves or thier property to have rocks thrown in thier direction, or a kid shooting bbs from his daisy bb gun at them, so why you would think they would want the same from bird shot is beyond me. Return velocity is still going to be about the speed of a weak bb gun for bird shot.

Terminal velocity is likely to be around 200-250mph for the height of most powerful small arm rounds, and less powerful rounds will be somewhere in between. At 250mph that is 366.6 feet per second. So how lethal something is at 366 FPS really depends on how much mass it has. However I don't really want to get hit by something at 350+ fps whether it weighs over an ounce like a shotgun slug, or whether it weighs very little. Very small birdshot however has a lot of drag which limits the height it can reach.

Crosswind of course plays a role as well, drag and mass another.

So it really depends on who you ask, but mythbusters used very poor math, and assumed something in air would travel a certain speed based on the distance it traveled through a gel denser, which is quite false. He multiplied the distance traveled in air by how how much less dense air was to the gel. That is entirely incorrect data.

Here is a source http://www.recguns.com/Sources/XD1.html

They mention the return velocity of a returning round at 300 fps, keep in mind though the return velocity is going to be dependent on how high the round travels which is going to be dependent on many factors.

"It was concluded from these tests that the return velocity was about 300 feet per second. With the 150 grain bullet, this corresponds to an energy of 30 foot pounds."

I sure do not want 30 foot pounds hitting me in the head, even if the army judges that to not be a disabling wound (likely in the torso).


However keep in mind all of this data is depending on firing the round perfectly straight into the air, any arc changes this and imparts more power to the returning bullet.

The real difference in danger posed is the distanced the round travels based on drag. Very small birdshot has a ton of drag. Non lead Birdshot (unless it is as dense or desner like hevishot) even greater drag due to less mass. So the danger posed is limited to a much smaller area, and the drag imposed on the round on its flight up limits the height it reachs which also limits the speed it reachs against drag on its return to earth. So birdshot is safest, bullets generaly are not. Of course even the term birdshot is relative and the smaller the better.
 
Bird Bombs. They make little starter type pistols, that use .22 "blanks". They shoot pretty far, make a very loud noise, and are a lot of fun.
 
Busy Squirrel..it dosent work that way..once you hit Terminal Velocity, there is no more speeding up...You could drop a bullet from the moon an it wouldn't matter...Simple basic Physics.
 
Get a varmint call and use the hen house to help call in the coyotes and then shoot to kill. It's good sport and you'll be doing the world a service.:)
Coyotes won't scare off for very long shooting in the air.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Good information, and I appreciate it all. Shooting into the ground would probably be the simplest thing to do; but all the other suggestions are good to keep in mind too.

I am not against shooting/killing the coyotes; but this afternoon the coyotes were between me and the cattle, further out in the pasture. I just don't dare use them as a backstop; with my luck, I'd put the bull down.

Thanks again everyone.
 
I've been 'rained' on by shot while dove hunting. Didn't really hurt but I wouldn't want to catch one in the eye!

When I was a younger man I loaded beer trucks overnight for a distributor. One New Year's Eve my partner and I stopped at midnight to listen to all the fireworks -- there was the unmistakable sound (to a shooter) of gunshots scattered amongst the fireworks. Moments later something metallic loudly landed on the roof of the delivery truck we were standing next to; we decided to retire to warehouse until the barrage was over... :D

Regards,

Mark
 
A bullet falling at terminal velocity, unless it weighs a few pounds, is not going to be lethal. That's basic physics, and cannot be debunked or refuted. Mythbusters confirmed it. A bullet of 100 or 200 or 400 grains simply will not have enough terminal velocity on the way back down to generate lethal force, though it could give a nasty smack.

What the doctor on that episode was talking about, and what most people are talking about when they talk about "falling bullets" ARE NOT FALLING BULLETS!! They are bullets fired AT AN ANGLE which maintain their ballistic trajectory all the way home. Got that, monkey boys? This is why firing off the hip into blue sky or at an acute angle towards a squirrel in a high tree, is dangerous. Those bullets, even from a .22LR, can keep considerable energy for long distances and impact in ballistic position. These can penetrate and kill. They are not "falling," they are simply fired bullets hitting a target a long ways off. Go look at the rear tangent on an old military rifle to see what I'm talking about. Consider how far out volley fire was determined to still be lethal.

A "falling" bullet is by definition coming down at terminal velocity and is no longer following a ballistic trajectory. These are no different from anything else falling on top of you at terminal velocity, from coins to tropical fruit. Not too much fun, but generally not lethal until we get to coconut size. Whether we're talking 30 ft. lbs. or 50, it's going to smack but not kill barring some freak set of circumstances. Arrows can kill with that level of force, but only with razor sharp blades on the front, a stabilized flight path and a higher sectional density than any rifle bullet.
 
I shot into the ground one time and I killed a sprinkler line. I did not find out about it until the next morning when the sprinklers came on and I get a call at work from the wife telling me the yard is flooding.
 
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