I want an M1 Garand but...

[Werewolf]

Last Sunday at the range the range owner (really cool 75 year old guy) let me shoot his WWII M1 Garand. Long story short - I want one. I was really surprised at how light the recoil was for the 30-06 as everything I've read has lead me to believe that it was pretty heavy. From a standing position I put all 8 rounds into an area the size of a pie plate at 100 yards. It's way more fun to shoot than my AR-15. I could use it in High Power competition which is something I've thought about doing for a while but was reluctant to attempt with my AR-15.

I don't want to go the CMP route. 3 guys whose opinion I respect have told me that what's coming out of CMP these days is mostly crap and I'm not into restoration.

Here's the problem. I can get a new M1 Garand from Springfield Armory or I can hunt the gun shops locally to try to find a used one. Trouble is I don't know how to tell the condition of an M1 from Adam. So if I buy one from a gunshop I won't know what I'm getting.

1) Any tips on how to tell the condition of an M1? Since I can't break one down yet I won't even be able to look at the bore and most gun shops will not tear a weapon down for inspection (at least not ones in OKC anyway).

2) How is the quality of the M1 Garands that you can purchase new from Springfield Armory? SA sells it in .308 and in 30-06. Which caliber do you guys recommend?

 

[foghornl]

CMP Garand is the only way to go. Get the "Service Grade" rather than the "Rack Grade".

Even though the CMP pretty much says 'What you get is what you get', they have a highly deserved reputation for working very closely with customers to resolve any issues.

 

[SDC]

I've got 3 Garands, including a Springfield M1D, and I love shooting them all; my only problem is finding .30-06 ball (reloading can be a hassle sometimes)), so I'd like to get another in .308. If finding plentiful ammo is important to you, you'd probably be better served by one in .308

 

[Big_R]

I don't know much about Garands either, but for inspecting the bore, pick up a bore light. They're around $10.00 and are basically a flashlight with a bent piece of fiber optic material on the end. They allow you to lock back the action (after the weapon's cleared) and shine a light into the bore from the breech. You can look down the muzzle. It's not real helpful for inspecting the chamber, but it will show excessive bore wear.

Ryan

 

[Sunray]

"...what's coming out of CMP these days is mostly crap..." Not true according to the guys over at Jouster.(www.jouster.com) In any case, the CMP is the best bang for your USD. You won't find an M-1 at a gun show for $400US that you know is safe to shoot. The CMP fixes anything you don't like and they have ammo.
Springfield Armoury Inc's QC has been iffy of late and you'll pay at least double.
You'd best start with some research on Garands. Go buy Hatcher's Book of the Garand and read the postings at jouster. You can get a downloadable manual here. http://www.biggerhammer.net/

 

[VG]

I don't want to go the CMP route. 3 guys whose opinion I respect have told me that what's coming out of CMP these days is mostly crap and I'm not into restoration.

Here's the problem. I can get a new M1 Garand from Springfield Armory or I can hunt the gun shops locally to try to find a used one. Trouble is I don't know how to tell the condition of an M1 from Adam. So if I buy one from a gunshop I won't know what I'm getting.

Complete BS as far as CMP goes. Respect their opinion less. Most of the gun show and gun dealer Garands that I've seen have worn out barrels, something that you absolutely won't get with a CMP rifle. I've bought 10 of them - they've all been fair value and several have been near new.

The Springfield Inc., rifle is not worth the money.

You can buy a refurbished to rebuilt rifle from any number of Garand specialists like Garandguy, Orion 7, West Texas Ordnance, Dean's Guns Restorations, etc.

Prices range from around $650 to as much as $1,500 for a NM-spec rifle. And you'll have to ship it through an FFL, adding to ht e cost. Versus $522 for a CMP service Grade, delivered.

 

[Murphster]

I was in exactly the same boat you're in. Wanted a great Garand. History and tradition aside, I didn't want to buy a pig in a poke from CMP even though I've heard they stand by their product and are fine folks, etc. Discovered at gun shows that some pretty ratty looking Garands go for a whole lot of money because of who made them or because Audie Murphy carried them, or their op-rod's made of gold, or whatever. They all looked the same to me - very used. Point is, I wanted a nice Garand without having to become a Garand expert to get one. So I got a new Springfield Armory Garand. No, John Wayne never carried it. But...it's beautiful, accurate, has an outstanding trigger, and functions perfectly, even with cheapo Korean ammo.

 

[762x51]

The heck with the new Springfields......If you don't want to go the CMP route (I didn't either), get a nice restored M1 from one of the premiere smiths out there. I would recommend Tony Pucci of Orion 7. I have one of his Select Grade rifles, and it's gorgeous. Much nicer than the new Springfield I was looking at before hand, plus a USGI receiver.

Orion 7 - http://www.m1garand.com

 

[30Cal]

Get one through the CMP. It will be properly headspaced and the parts will all be good and servicible. The stocks seldom disappoint if you put a little time into cleaning them up.

There are a handfull of reputable folks selling restored and otherwise good M1's, but for the most part, you'll be swimming with the sharks (especially at shows and shops).

By buying from the CMP, you'll be avoiding the following:
-Faked stock cartouches (10 of 12 stocks I saw at the last show were forgeries)
-Welded receivers. You used to be allowed only 1 rifle in your lifetime from the DCM. There were a lot of rejected military receivers that were demilled and sold as surplus. Folks grabbed a front half and a back half and welded them together to make Springchesters and Winfields. These are very common and often hard to spot. Resell value is about zero these days unless you can dupe someone into paying full price for it (happens daily).
-2 groove Garand barrels (there ain't no such legit creature)
-worn out parts
-Parts kit rifles that don't function (parts aren't a drop-in affair w/ the M1)
-overpriced rifles (any Garand at my local show is overpriced)
-B.S. stories that raise the pricetag but not the value of the rifle (saw an M1 w/ an anchor on the sight cover. The dealer was saying that this Danish replacement part denoted that the rifle was a rare US Navy Garand).

There are a zillion pitfalls out there and it's a daily affair to see someone online saying they've found a great rifle that turns out to be some valueless FrankenGarand.

 

[Steve in PA]

"I don't want to go the CMP route. 3 guys whose opinion I respect have told me that what's coming out of CMP these days is mostly crap and I'm not into restoration."

Oh yeah.........and how do they know? Because they have a friend, who's brother's cousins, uncle had a neighbor who heard.........?????

I bought one last year and its in perfect shape. No "restoration" needed. Of course if you want to spend $1000.00 or better on "new" M1, go right ahead, its your money.

I handled a brand new SA M1 Garand at my favorite gun store a couple of weeks ago, but for his asking price $999.00 I can get two M1's from CMP. So I may have to clean up the stock a bit, big deal.

My vote is for CMP or one of the restored one's.

 

[Third_Rail]

SDC, what about Korean ball? It seems to work just fine for me.

Or are you wanting ball in 8 rd clips for the Garand?

 

[SDC]

I've tried the Korean ball in the past (when I could get it), but I haven't seen any in my area for quite some time. I've got a decent supply of clips, but unless I want to load them up with softpoint hunting ammo (or break into my "emergency" stash), I'm left with reloading for my .30-06 rifles

 

[Litefoot]

What a bunch of crapola!!! I have NEVER heard of any person..not ONE...who wished they hadn't bought from CMP. Your "expert" buddies were probably too lazy to do the paperwork in order to qualify for one.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Go ahead and get the CMP Garand if you really want one. You probably won't regret the decision.

As for Highpower competition though, why the fear of using the AR-15? It will shoot plenty well, and with a free-float tube it would be fine. (Assuming it is a A2.) Come to think of it, at a match Sunday I saw exactly 2-NON AR-15 rifles out of about 25 competitors. The top three Service Rifle shooters were using AR-15s and I believe the match winner had a Match Rifle-spec AR-15, but don't quote me on that last.

Anyway, go get the M-1. The CMP route is your best option IMO. Take it for what you paid for it!

 

[telewinz]

I've owned several nice Garands in the past. Forget it...get a Hakim it goes for about the same price or less and is more accurate off the shelf than the standard issue Garand. It doesn't have the sights, PR or history of the Garand BUT it's a superior MBR.

 

[Third_Rail]

SDC, that's strange... area specific I suppose.

Right now in the local shop there is $6.95/20 rounds of 30-06 Korean ball. Sorry to hear that you can't find any though... makes me think I should hoard the stuff they have. I think they have 5 or 6 cases full, though.

 

[Jspy]

After talking to a couple other guys, and checking out their CMP Garands, I finally took the plunge. Ordered two a couple of weeks ago and can hardly wait to seen what I'm going to be getting. I already have an all Springfield in great shape that I "lucked" into. If I could only come up with an IHC !

 

[cdbeaver]

Werewolf:

Wonder if the 75-year-old chap who let you shoot his M-1 is a Korean War vet. I learned to love the M-1 during basic training in 1950. It is a wonderfully accurate rifle, the recoil is only moderate, if kept clean it will shoot forever, and it really is a piece of art . . . really.

 

[TimRB]

FYI

Go to http://www.ammoman.com/ to find Korean M2 ball in Garand clips with free shipping. I got a couple of cans of the stuff and it goes bang. YMMV; one THR poster had some cases split.

Tim

 

[Third_Rail]

From personal experience, AKA I've shot ~300 rounds now, the Korean is top-notch for the price. No squibs, no splits, etc.

Bad lot from the splits, perhaps?

 

[cracked butt]

CMP won't do you wrong.

You won't get a pristine 100% correct rifle from them for $500 however. What you'll get is a fully functional that probably has been rebuilt several times over. On the other hand, if you order from Springfield inc, you won't get a rifle that is historically correct either, and you'll pay twice the price.

Get a service grade Springfield from CMP, (I'd reccomend an HRA but I think they are getting few and far between right now) and enjoy it. I don't know how anyone couldn't enjoy them.

 

[Third_Rail]

Cracked, my neighbor sold his ONE YEAR before he found out I was into rifles... sold it to a gun shop for $300, they turned around and sold it for $1000. He was pissed, but I guess it was worth it, he hung on to the rest of the guns. I still don't think he liked shooting it, hence the sale.

 

[Swampy]

werewolf wrote:

3 guys whose opinion I respect have told me that what's coming out of CMP these days is mostly crap and I'm not into restoration.

Those would be 3 guys whose opinion I'd respect never again......

A Service Grade SA or HRA rifle from the CMP will be a good'ern. I know from personal experience...... many times now, I know.

Be sure to go with a Service Grade and not the Rack Grade. With a Service Grade you are GUARANTEED a maximum wear spec on the barrel. The Rack is graded because of either bad wood or a more more worn barrel (see CMP's grading and inspection criteria on their web page).

Wanna' see what I get from the CMP???

Go here: Swampys "Stuff" page

Enjoy,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[Swampy]

oops, double post.

sorry,


Swampy

Garands forever

 

[Werewolf]

Thanks for all the comments you guys. As usual the High Roaders have tons of good info.

Still haven't decided whether to go the CMP route yet but I'm convinced that the advice I got about it from the 3 guys I mentioned before more than likely isn't correct. I visited the CMP site and qualifying for an M1 would be a piece of cake.

I saw the universal application. For a first timer does one just send in a birth certificate and a couple of match score sheets and club ID? There doesn't seem to be any place to note those docs on the application.

Does anyone have a feel for how long the waiting list is for a service grade M1?

The only real concern I have at this point is that 30-06 ammo is not as readily available as .308 and will only get less available as time goes on. I reload but currently I only reload pistol rounds since in my rifles I use mil-surp 5.56 or 7.62X39 neither of which I could reload as cheaply as I can buy it.

Historocity is a concern but not a major one.

I visited the Orion 7 site and they have what appears to be some mighty fine M1's there. That might be the best route for me but they're all 30-06. We'll see.

Once again thanks for all the good info...