I was a victim of an armed robbery

[Gordon]

What it is is what it is. I am sure you will keep the door locked when you have your pants around your ankles next time. I trust NO ONE who pulls a gun on me to have mercy so I rely on movement while I deploy. Usually scum bags don't practice marksmanship and moving targets are very difficult to master. Of course there is allways the golden BB with your name on it, but then the Gyro could have killed you .
a few decades back someone pulled a gun on me from about 15 feet away when I was a Federal Narc. I had a snubby on my belt under a light jacket. I called out to someone behind the perp who wasn't there and in the second he glanced back I pulled as I stepped and crouched and pulled and one round hit his thigh , one his stomach and one his arm and one missed. Fortunately those 110 grain +p+ .38 loads must hurt because he collapsed screaming and it was very hard for me not to put one in the downed perp's head as I had recently done to sappers in da Nam. As it was I was somewhat chastised for not identifying myself and asking him to drop the gun! Because of this he was sent back to his home in Jamaica in his wheel chair with a coloscopy bag as they felt that was easier in the racially charged atmosphere of NJ in the middle 70s.
A couple years ago someone tried to jack me at a deserted ATM with a quick get out of a waiting car. I had a snub .38 in a jacket pocket as he closed to about 15 feet, I screamed at him to get back and I guess he rightfully perceived this old white haired man was not attracted to him ith the growing bulge in the jacket and he retreated to the car screaming back at me in a meth voice he wasn't scared of me. My finger was tightening on the trigger when he approached and the DA pull would have happened by 6 feet, he had a black colored weapon of some sort, prolly a pipe .
Actually because of legal issues in today's stupid age the best outcome is no gunplay, but like I say a gun to my head is an untenable position and yes I have paid people like Louis Awerbuck to teach me choices if that did occur.

 

[Trent]

I'm posting only after reading the OP, will go re read the responses (maybe) later, as I wanted to comment without derailing my initial thoughts.

#1, you were held at gunpoint and got away with a bump and cut. Bravo. You won. (shooting someone is messy and doesn't at all mean you are victorious, it could have been the start of serious problems. Killing someone isn't easy. Could have faced charges in some jurisdictions, depending on the scenario. Could have ended up dead. Just to name a few.)

#2 see #1.

Have all the internet bravado you want to muster, rule #1 about fighting is if you can avoid it, you have won. You took a licking but tou didn't freeze up. They got the drop on you. Could happen to a highly trained Navy Seal. (in fact it did, not so long ago, at a range ...)

You can only control what you can control. You were not the attacker, you didn't have the initiative or element of surprise. Everyone has to eat, or take a dump, or a shower, or whatever. I don't do those things with a pistol in one hand and a wad of toilet paper in the other. It's close but if you are closer...

Be glad it turned out as it did.

Be a good witness and think of ways to buy time and distance in the future. Since this is a business, mirrors to see around a blind corner, cameras, etc.

 

[easyg]

....by then he had his pistol to my head and he ordered me to the ground,...

This might have been your best opportunity to disarm the thug.

While it is certainly risky, and it takes a lot of guts to even try, most folks would be surprised at how easy it is to grab the opponent's handgun and disarm them.

This is why you never get within arms reach of your opponent if you are the one pointing the gun.

It sounds contrary, but at 12 feet away you would have probably got yourself shot if you had tried something.
But with the gun against your head you could have probably taken it from him.

Of course the second thug might have shot you as you were fighting the first thug.
It was really a bad situation.


What would I have done?

There's just no way to know for certain.
I would like to think that I would have tried to disarm him once he was within reach.
I've did it many times with paintball guns.
Only once have I been "killed", and several times got shot in the hand, but usually I succeed.
Of course those were just paintballs and I knew that I wasn't going to really die...still, if I thought they were going to kill me anyway then I would really have nothing to lose by trying to disarm him.



Easy

 

[Certaindeaf]

Very true. If someone is swinging a gun at your head it is by definition, at that moment, not dangerous.. but only for a very short period of time.
You want to have skills, strength, resolve and luck though.

 

[Potatohead]

yikes. glad your okay. pretty gripping story/posts..makes me realize im on "white" as you guys are calling it, way to much

 

[tepin]

You did what this book suggests you do:

http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Defens...=1370399279&sr=8-1&keywords=strong+on+defense

Stay safe!

 

[CookeMonster]

Can't say I would have done it any differently. Yeah, yeah... lock the door. Sometimes we brainfart. It happens to all of us. You probably chose correctly in not drawing, and using the opportunity to escape. You lived, and that's what matters. Glad to hear it. We can all sound like experts and fearless heros when it isn't happening to us, at breakneck speed no less, and on the internet. Sometimes, being Stallone or Schwartzeneger is what gets you killed, even though the good guys don't lose on TV. Sometimes, being Screech is what saves your life.

 

[tarosean]

Of course those were just paintballs and I knew that I wasn't going to really die.

and against a known adversary...

 

[CONNEX 3300]

Glad you are ok. You're already on the right track, by acknowledging the breakdown in situational awareness. You identified several things you can do in the future that might have changed the outcome; locking the door, installing cameras, and keeping your pistol in a more accessible place. If you had said something like "this guy just came from nowhere with a gun" then I would say we have a major problem.
If you will do the things you already mentioned, I think that would make a big difference in the outcome, and I also highly recommend some quality tactical training to increase your situational awareness. I didn't look to see where you are located, but if you can make it out to Oklahoma for a weekend; Badlands Tactical Training in Grandfield offers excellent training at very reasonable costs.
A gun does no good if we can't identify a threat in a timely manner, and its especially useless if we can't deploy it quickly.

Thank you for posting this real life scenario. Posts like this are the most helpful for preparing for my own real life situation.

 

[Geno]

I strongly disagree about drawing, and firing with slick hands/fingers. If you carry, there is no longer any such thing as "finger" food.

When I lived in South America, I was taught by some military relatives, eat all finger foods either with a fork, or wrapped in a napkin. Burgers? Yeah, hold that thing in a napkin. Heck, it's better hygene and protects your clothes too. Fries, use a fork, or if you're a righty, eat fries with the left hand. Best option, keep 'me dry and clean.

Oh yeah, lock your door! . Glad you're alive to share the story.

Geno

 

[3212]

I don't know if it was a good idea.In the 70's I worked in a gas station where the owner had attached a sawed off double barrel 12 guage under the office desk.It had two shells in the chambers.He said lift the stock and pull the trigger,it will cover the office and into the work bays.Thankfully,I never had to do it.This was while riots where occuring nearby.His brother had a jewelry store in D.C. and guarded it with an employee while stores were looted and burned in the same block.

 

[aka108]

When I was 16 I had worked at a Mobil Oil gas station for a couple of years after school. This was in 1952. One night I was bringing the cash box in from the island to stuff the 25 or 30 bucks it contained into the floor safe. Two guys came in, one armed with a revolver, breaktop style, 32 or 38 I don't know. What I can tell you is that when you are looking down the barrel of something like that pointed at you it looked like a 16" Navy gun. Biggest damn gun I've ever seen or hope to see. They got their money. I sure wasn't going to play hero for money, esp when it was the boss's, not mine. Those guys worked a small area and were busted in a police stake out about a month later.

 

[sanman513]

Amen that your alive! If someone already has a gun on you, go with the flow. There is nothing materially in this world worth your life. Glad you're ok

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[3212]

The problem today is some of these characters will shoot you first and rob you later.

 

[Torian]

This might have been your best opportunity to disarm the thug.

While it is certainly risky, and it takes a lot of guts to even try, most folks would be surprised at how easy it is to grab the opponent's handgun and disarm them.

This is why you never get within arms reach of your opponent if you are the one pointing the gun.

It sounds contrary, but at 12 feet away you would have probably got yourself shot if you had tried something.
But with the gun against your head you could have probably taken it from him.

Of course the second thug might have shot you as you were fighting the first thug.
It was really a bad situation.


What would I have done?

There's just no way to know for certain.
I would like to think that I would have tried to disarm him once he was within reach.
I've did it many times with paintball guns.
Only once have I been "killed", and several times got shot in the hand, but usually I succeed.
Of course those were just paintballs and I knew that I wasn't going to really die...still, if I thought they were going to kill me anyway then I would really have nothing to lose by trying to disarm him.

Years ago I used to be part of a group of instructors who taught visiting LEOs weapon disarming and submission techniques based on various senarios (handgun, knife, club). We worked from distances of about 5 feet all the way up to zero. All disarming techniques were based on the following three principles:

1. Remove yourself as the target (step off the line of attack)
2. Control the weapon
3. Subdue the attacker (take them down)

I would probably disagree with just about everything you said above. The OP pretty much made all the right decisions once he lost his SA and was accosted. Adding multiple attackers into the equation just reinforces this fact.

If you are at a distance of 12 feet away, and you make a decision to defend yourself, you would have a better chance of gaining some cover while trying to get at a weapon (hopefully staged on you or nearby).

If you try to disarm an attacker point-blank, you are accepting an exorbitantly high level of risk (death in this case), and it should only be done if you believe your death is imminent (you have nothing to lose). An example of such a situation would be if they just finished executing two individuals, and you see you are next.

The OP as stated was in no condition to get the drop on his attackers. Nor did he have any training in such a technique. Even I would very likely have not deviated from his decision-making. The decisions he made kept him alive and allowed him to learn from his mistakes and adjust accordingly.

I will otherwise keep my mouth shut on your advice and claimed experience as my next few sentences will definitely not be taking The High Road.

 

[brainwake]

I have had a similar experience although I wasn't armed. I am now. I would agree that situational awareness is the real key to safety. I might one day tell my story on this forum. It happened when I was about 25 and fresh out of the Army. I thought I was tough as nails. I know now that I am just flesh.

I will say this...and some might disagree. Running away is what I will try first...if I can. It's very hard to shoot someone on the move. Most criminal like this, aren't trained or practiced shooters. So I tell my kids...if someone pulls out a gun....don't get in the car....run away. I say, take the chance and get out. He may not be that motivated to actually pull the trigger on some random person.

So I say, you did a great job....and I am sure you have learned your lesson about being more aware and taking the steps to improve your safety.

 

[mnhntr]

This reinforces that situational awareness and a plan of action at all times is more important than what you carry or how you carry it. Where you sit in a given area and how you percieve danger and how quick your reaction time is is far more important. I have certain behaviors that my wife used to tease me about but is very used to and understands is important now. I never sit where I cannot see the entrances of the room I am in. I never got into crowds where i am herded like cattle. I never do things like fill up with gas while just starring at the pump, or turning my back to strangers who have engaged me in conversation. Paying attention will save you faster than your ability to draw with lightning speed.
You can have all the what ifs and this is how I would do it conversations you want but until it happens to you its all just talk.
Glad you are alive to fight another day.

 

[Hk Dan]

One thing to remember? At contact distance up to about 5 feet, you own that gun of his. It can be deflected and taken before he can shoot you--my gosh y kids are trained to do it (with airsoft guns).

Thank God youre alive and its hard to argue with your results, but get some disarm training man!

 

[Torian]

One thing to remember? At contact distance up to about 5 feet, you own that gun of his. It can be deflected and taken before he can shoot you--my gosh y kids are trained to do it (with airsoft guns).

Thank God youre alive and its hard to argue with your results, but get some disarm training man!

Is this a serious post? If your lack of proper grammar is any indication, it isn't.

Airsoft, or having the high score on Call of Duty, is not real life my friend. If you miss or your hands slip, you die. If you actually think you have training, or are qualified to give such advice, you need to go back to the drawing board.

The mistake the OP made, as already pointed out multiple times, was when he lost his SA. Everything after that he did right, because he survived to tell about it and learn from it.

 

[Al Thompson]

At contact distance up to about 5 feet, you own that gun of his.

Rather disagree with that statement. Way, way too many variables to make that sort of blanket statement.

 

[Certaindeaf]

No kidding. The "Cape of Invincibility!" is fantasy. Some people might not take well to anyone having their way with them, whatever the field.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Only three thoughts:

1. I bet you'll lock the door next time.
2. Your gun can handle a little grease just fine- don't wipe your hands when you should be drawing.
3. It's not over till it's over. You're not 'dead' until you're dead. If you start behind the power curve, that happens. Just because someone has a gun already out doesn't mean you're dead, zero pulse rate and zero brain activity mean you're dead. Don't give up.

 

[Potatohead]

-my gosh y kids are trained to do it (with airsoft guns)

I hope you dont get your kids in trouble with this "training". You may want to mention that going for the perps gun is kind of a last resort type deal. Im no expert, but...

 

[X-Rap]

Just because it is a last option doesn't mean it is not an option. Better to have some understanding of the action than not.

 

[Torian]

Just because it is a last option doesn't mean it is not an option. Better to have some understanding of the action than not.

Agreed, however it takes some common sense to see the action safely applied.

We aren't talking about understanding of the action, we are talking about someones supposed training giving him a false sense of confidence, none of which encourages the application of sound judgement in a dangerous situation.

Training with airsoft or paintball guns CAN be a useful tool in the hands of a qualified instructor, unless it desensitizes you to the consequences of your actions, as evidenced by some of the posts above.