I would never run toward the sound of gunfire.
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Treo
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Yup, I'm A Coward
There are so many varibles to consider in any given situation, but one I haven't seen mentioned yet is how do you keep the cops from killing you as you " Ride, boldly ride" to the rescue?
ETA While we're on the subject I'd also like to point out that "Ride to the sound of the guns" was LTC. George Armstrong Custers motto
There are so many varibles to consider in any given situation, but one I haven't seen mentioned yet is how do you keep the cops from killing you as you " Ride, boldly ride" to the rescue?
ETA While we're on the subject I'd also like to point out that "Ride to the sound of the guns" was LTC. George Armstrong Custers motto
Sergeant Sabre
Member
How does the saying go? "Discretion is the better part of valor", right?
Consider that you are armed only with a handgun with a magazine or two, you're not wearing any armor, and you have no back-up. Generally this is the case with a civilian CCWer. Is it wise to dash into a situation possibly involving an armored assailant with a rifle or shotgun, who may be carrying hundreds of rounds? Perhaps there are two, or even three shooters?
There are just too many unknowns, you're alone, with only a handgun and no armor, you've got a terribly weak hand. I recommend you run away. I know I would if I was off-duty.
On-duty, I'll go in. Carefully, though. Wearing armor and with a rifle, radio, a few friends, and a bit of information about the shooter or shooters from 911 callers. I definitely don't need the area clogged with "fat, slow and (moderately) untrained" but well-meaning civilians who have pistols and are hard to distinguish from the bad guy in a split-second, either.
Consider that you are armed only with a handgun with a magazine or two, you're not wearing any armor, and you have no back-up. Generally this is the case with a civilian CCWer. Is it wise to dash into a situation possibly involving an armored assailant with a rifle or shotgun, who may be carrying hundreds of rounds? Perhaps there are two, or even three shooters?
There are just too many unknowns, you're alone, with only a handgun and no armor, you've got a terribly weak hand. I recommend you run away. I know I would if I was off-duty.
On-duty, I'll go in. Carefully, though. Wearing armor and with a rifle, radio, a few friends, and a bit of information about the shooter or shooters from 911 callers. I definitely don't need the area clogged with "fat, slow and (moderately) untrained" but well-meaning civilians who have pistols and are hard to distinguish from the bad guy in a split-second, either.
MASTEROFMALICE
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You're thinking of cops on duty, where we are on patrol and the call goes from victim, to 911 operator, to dispatcher, to us and then we have to get where we're going.
I'm thinking more along the lines of off-duty, as in I'm at 7-11 getting coffee when some freak-show runs in and decides he wants the register more than the store-owner.
Now there's no response time. How many cops would hide vs fight? Some, perhaps, but not many I'd bet. You'd find cops that hid were most likely related to the Chief somehow and didn't even want to be a cop in the first place.
revjen45
Member
No offense meant, but I think it could get you shot by the police. When they pull up on a situation where shots have already been fired they don't know who is whom. And now you run up, maybe with gun out. Your intentions and motives are noble, but that won't save you.
bogie
Member
It all really depends on the situation.
Now, you and I _know_ what gunfire sounds like. A lot of folks don't.
If armed, I think I'd investigate, utilizing cover. Otherwise, I think I'd figure the most expeditious way out a door... or window... or thin piece of wall.
Now, you and I _know_ what gunfire sounds like. A lot of folks don't.
If armed, I think I'd investigate, utilizing cover. Otherwise, I think I'd figure the most expeditious way out a door... or window... or thin piece of wall.
Involving yourself in a situation that you know absolutely NOTHING about except there is gunfire involved is a terrible idea. Let's say you run around the corner, gun in hand, and see several men shooting at each other. None are wearing police uniforms. What do you do?
It could be a gang fight. Which side do you support? Who do you shoot?
It could be a plain-clothes cop in a gunfight with criminals but how do YOU know who is who? What if you shoot the wrong guy? Can you say incarceration? Civil liability?
Try this on for size. You run to the scene of the gunfight, and the cops shoot you since you look like one of the crook's buddies in your jeans and polo shirt and a gun in your hand. This happens all the time with cops shooting each other in such situations. What makes you think it wouldn't happen to you?
You're right when you say you aren't a cop. And the cops will tell you to stay out of a situation that doesn't directly involve you.
If I hear gunfire I am taking cover.
It could be a gang fight. Which side do you support? Who do you shoot?
It could be a plain-clothes cop in a gunfight with criminals but how do YOU know who is who? What if you shoot the wrong guy? Can you say incarceration? Civil liability?
Try this on for size. You run to the scene of the gunfight, and the cops shoot you since you look like one of the crook's buddies in your jeans and polo shirt and a gun in your hand. This happens all the time with cops shooting each other in such situations. What makes you think it wouldn't happen to you?
You're right when you say you aren't a cop. And the cops will tell you to stay out of a situation that doesn't directly involve you.
If I hear gunfire I am taking cover.
Having been in the near vicinity of gunfire a few times, I can safely say I will first drop behind cover and then get out of dodge as fast as possible.
I'm not a hero, I'm not a cop, a call to 911 is all I feel capable of offering in that sort of situation.
I'm not a hero, I'm not a cop, a call to 911 is all I feel capable of offering in that sort of situation.
In most cases, I would likely hunker down somewhere and be dialing 911. If the situation was too complicated for me at the time and I wasn't sure of what was happening and why I would probably not get involved.
But there are other times when I would most certainly go towards it. If I knew that something like the Colorado church shooting was taking place, I would do whatever I could to stop it. I realize that such actions might get me hurt or even killed. But there are times when it is better to lay your own life down than to keep on living.
But there are other times when I would most certainly go towards it. If I knew that something like the Colorado church shooting was taking place, I would do whatever I could to stop it. I realize that such actions might get me hurt or even killed. But there are times when it is better to lay your own life down than to keep on living.
Sergeant Sabre
Member
Probably true. I'll be the first to admit that people are responsible for their own defense. I'll do my best to help, but I can't save the world.
Exactly right. If we are going into a situation in which there is a bad guy with a gun, then we see a guy with a gun, he'll be treated like a bad guy. We can't afford to make any other assumption.
If the guy obeys verbal commands and ends up cuffed, now we have baggage and we have to go back out to drop him off before we can go back in and continue clearing. So even if you don't get shot you really slow us down.
As a general rule I think that it would be better for all involved for the legally armed citizen to NOT run towards the gunfire. However I read an account of the NIU events and someone said (paraphrasing) 'He's reloading! Run away!' It seems to me that if you have the presence of mind to realize the murderer is reloading, it would be a better idea to try and fight him at that point rather than run away.
QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
Member
sorry but i was laughing my arse off at that.
i carry from when my pants go on to when they come off no matter where i am or going. there is NO WAY IN HELL i would run TOWARDS gunfire, my 200lbs arse would be getting the hell out of there if i could. if im cornered or in a confined area i would by my time until i could try for a clean shot, i don't care if their back is turned, they would be going down.(or so i hope)
RiflemanTripleEight
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If it were an active shooter situation and I was very close by (and alone), I would definately engage the shooter. Being a police officer, I have sworn to protect the people (even though most hate me). I would do my best to stop the shooters actions until my friends with rifles arrive.
If I were on duty? I would look like an olympic sprinter carrying a rifle heading for the gun fire. That being said I do worry about mistaking a well meaning armed citizen for a target. I'm going to take my shots from a distance if possible, which makes identifying the target more problematic.
If I were on duty? I would look like an olympic sprinter carrying a rifle heading for the gun fire. That being said I do worry about mistaking a well meaning armed citizen for a target. I'm going to take my shots from a distance if possible, which makes identifying the target more problematic.
chris in va
Member
As I always say...
I won't know until it happens. Maybe I'll turn chicken, maybe not.
I won't know until it happens. Maybe I'll turn chicken, maybe not.
buck460XVR
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I think it is peculiar how everyone here associates the sound of gunfire with a dangerous and or criminal situation. Maybe it's because I live in a small midwestern town where the sound of gunfire can mean anything from the neighbor shooting gophers in his back yard to a drunken wife beater having a shootout with his T.V. set. During most of the hunting season, hearing gunshots fairly close is normal and there's no need to take cover.
It depends entirely on the situation, but most times I pay attention when I hear gunshots and then try to discern the why and where. If there was cause to be alarmed I would be cautious and call 911 before investigating farther. If I thought there was someone in immediate danger(whether it an accidental discharge or under attack) I would do what I had to do to help.....it would not necessarily mean jumping in with my guns. My ol' man always told me how to handle most situations in life......observe, evaluate and then take action.
It depends entirely on the situation, but most times I pay attention when I hear gunshots and then try to discern the why and where. If there was cause to be alarmed I would be cautious and call 911 before investigating farther. If I thought there was someone in immediate danger(whether it an accidental discharge or under attack) I would do what I had to do to help.....it would not necessarily mean jumping in with my guns. My ol' man always told me how to handle most situations in life......observe, evaluate and then take action.
Treo
member
The Law Of Unintended Consequences.
We've been war gaming this one for awhile and I'd like to throw another variable into the mix. I was on my way home from work last night , I stopped at a red light looked at the sidewalk on my left & looked right into the eyes of Jean Assam ( I live in Co Springs) I knew who it was because the local news made her a very familiar face. Yup she beat the bad guy, yup she's a bona fide hero but she lost her privacy in the process. She can no longer expect to go out to eat anonymously, she can't even go to church W/ out it being thrown in her face.
As someone who's goal in life is to pass by unnoticed I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay that price.
For those of you who are wondering,I treated her EXACTLY the way I would want to be treated by a stranger. I kept my mout shut and minded my own business.
We've been war gaming this one for awhile and I'd like to throw another variable into the mix. I was on my way home from work last night , I stopped at a red light looked at the sidewalk on my left & looked right into the eyes of Jean Assam ( I live in Co Springs) I knew who it was because the local news made her a very familiar face. Yup she beat the bad guy, yup she's a bona fide hero but she lost her privacy in the process. She can no longer expect to go out to eat anonymously, she can't even go to church W/ out it being thrown in her face.
As someone who's goal in life is to pass by unnoticed I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay that price.
For those of you who are wondering,I treated her EXACTLY the way I would want to be treated by a stranger. I kept my mout shut and minded my own business.
American_Pit_Bull
Member
I run into burning coal mines and it doesn't make me a different kind of person... It's my job.
I carry a "defensive" weapon and I do not have a radio or backup. Therefore, I will not be running toward the sound of gunfire.
I figure if it jumps out at you and forces itself on you, then you may have some obligation to take immediate action. But, if you have to run to the sounds of gunfire to get there, you will probably be too late to do much good anyway. The cops have to come and clean up the mess and fill in the reports. You don't.
Sure it does. You sure as heck wouldn't find me running into a burning coal mine and I certainly wouldn't take that job.
There is no such thing as a "defensive" weapon per se. All firearms do the same thing when you pull the trigger, how you employ them makes the difference.
When I am off duty I don't have a radio or backup either, but I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing I was in the area and did nothing to help should a situation like that present itself.
Funny thing is I just recently went to re-training for active shooter scenarios. It's been since 2003 since I had it last and it hasn't changed much since then. Pretty much gather up any other LE you have with you at the scene, get into a formation to cover each other and move towards the shooting. It goes against pretty much all SWAT and entry tactics we have due to the nature of the emergency and the need for IMMEDIATE response.
The instructors at the course stated themselves that most likely the best chance we have at stopping an active shooter is a lone officer in the right spot or an off-duty officer who is carrying his or her firearm.
We were taught that it is better to have the shooter engage in a firefight with you so that his attention is taken away from the innocent bystanders than to just let him run through unconfronted.
lacoochee
Member
Thank you.
nyggis
Member
Since my time in the army it would feel strange not to... If shots were fired in my neighbourhood I would like to see what was happening. Where I live there are a lot of immigrants, Kurds, Somalis and Iranians, who tend to treat native Swedes like prey... 
The problem is that in Sweden you WILL be prosecuted if you use firearms to defend yourself or others... The only case I´ve heard when a man who defended himself walked free, was a member of the Swedish Home Defence who was attacked in his home by a crazed drug addict who chopped himself through the front door with an axe... When the BG ran towards him with the axe he emptied a 36 round magazine 9 mm from his issued m/45 submachinegun (Swedish K) and thereby survived the encounter...
But there was a LONG trial...
Unfortunately political correctness has taken over the earlier common sense that used to be here in Sweden...
Any of you know where to get a green card?
/ erik
The problem is that in Sweden you WILL be prosecuted if you use firearms to defend yourself or others... The only case I´ve heard when a man who defended himself walked free, was a member of the Swedish Home Defence who was attacked in his home by a crazed drug addict who chopped himself through the front door with an axe... When the BG ran towards him with the axe he emptied a 36 round magazine 9 mm from his issued m/45 submachinegun (Swedish K) and thereby survived the encounter...
But there was a LONG trial...
Unfortunately political correctness has taken over the earlier common sense that used to be here in Sweden...
Any of you know where to get a green card?
/ erik
Cannonball888
Member
I have run toward the sound of gun fire MANY TIMES when I was in the kitchen grabbing a snack and didn't want to miss that shooting scene on TV. 
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