I'd like a cheap, reliable, concealable pistol; ideas?

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About the littke Kel-Tec P3AT, about how accurate is it? could you whack someone 10 yards away?
 
I am unsure about the P3AT but I have some experience with the P32, which is mostly just a smaller, .32ACP version. You could hit someone ten yards away... but the "sights" on the pistol aren't much help. I typed "sights" because... well, if you ever see them you will know. There is a funky depression in the rear of the slide and a bump on the front end. At least they have white paint on 'em. Still, you can hit COM on a man sized target with surprising ease. Really, real light too.
 
About the littke Kel-Tec P3AT, about how accurate is it? could you whack someone 10 yards away?
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While the gun is capable of decent accuracy, it is difficult to shoot well. When I have really focused, I have been able to print 4" groups at 25 feet. But without taking your time and concentrating, 10 yard groups would probably be more in the 8-10" range. That said, if you shoot someone farther than that, you are in deep doo-doo.

The reason the Kel-Tec has enjoyed such success is the same reason it was developed: to offer .380 ACP performance from a .25 ACP sized package (it is actually thinner and lighter than my Beretta 950 BS or my Tanfoglio GT-27B). I can carry mine IWB wearing wranglers and a tucked-in tee and not worry about it ever being noticed.
 
FEG's PA-63/AP-9 or SMC models are all very good .380s for the money.

They are hard to find new, imported for only a few years... but even used they rarely run over $200.

It's big for a .380, but it feeds anything you put in it. Gritty trigger in DA mode, but it's accurate and sturdy.
 
inexpensive gun

my p32 kt cnan unload all rds in center mass at 10 yds- no prob. the mak would be my choice, although my star bm is more accurate. the mak is da, & you have to see what type of firing pin you have in the sa bm to assure it's safe for cocked & locked. the bersa is also a good pistol.
 
Originally posted by MrDuke
About the littke Kel-Tec P3AT, about how accurate is it? could you whack someone 10 yards away?
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I can with finger extensions (see below) but not with the factory magazine base.

(click to enlarge)
sghcb-fghcgs.jpg
 
"I'd like a cheap, reliable, concealable pistol; ideas?

Something around or under 200$, small, and preferably .380 or 9mm.

i dont think i want one of those old cheap jennings but something that size.

thanks; i'm not too informed on this subject."

Sounds like the Bersa 380 is what you are looking for. Better sights, trigger and ergos than the Mak and it shoot a more common cartridge. The Maks can be accurate but the Bersa is probably easier to hit with because of the better sights and trigger. The Bersa is also super accurate, at least as accurate as the Mak if not a lot better. The Bersa is also lighter than the Mak because it has an alloy frame.

The kel-crap is not reliable enough or made well enough to use as a serious self defense weapon. Too many problems with these to trust them.

You already have a light weight snubby and that is the best you can do for a CCW at the moment. Ultra reliable and easy to use and potent.

One more jab at the Mak while I can, it built it's fame on being a good cheap gun. As the OTD price is now close to a new Bersa, why would you buy a used Mak? If it was still $100, I would say they are a great deal. Now that OTD price is going to run you close to $200, there are much better choices for the money.
 
Makarov. The Bulgarians common on the market are 8-round single-stack, but if you can find one of the Russian 10-round double-stacks you're lucky! (I have one of each.) Import ammo is cheap for range and practice, and for business Speer Gold Dots are the ticket. :evil:
 
P3AT or KT-11
OR Check JG sales for S&W mod 10s
itemdetail.php
 
The kel-crap is not reliable enough or made well enough to use as a serious self defense weapon. Too many problems with these to trust them.
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I would venture to say this is the black sheep opinion concerning this particular good-quality, made in USA handgun. Kel-Tec also has excellent customer service, in my experience.


Do tell what model soured you, and what your problems comprised.
 
"Do tell what model soured you, and what your problems comprised."

P-32. More problems than you could shake a stick at. Went back to Kel-Crap twice and they sent me parts once. Never reliable. Trigger axis broke and I finally gave up on the biggest POS handgun I have ever owned with the possible exception of a Tec-9 (AB-10) I once had.

Comparing a Kel-Tec to a Mak or Bersa in terms of reliabilty, quality, accuracy or anything else for that matter is like comparing a turd to a sunset. :neener: I may not be a huge fan of the Mak but it is so much better than the Kel-Crap that it is not even funny. I would carry a Mak if I had to but a Kel-Tec would be at the bottom of my list just below Raven and Hi-Point and just above Jennings and Bryco. I am not joking about that either. I am dead serious that I would rather carry a Raven or a Hi-Point than a Kel-Tec.
 
I'd avoid the Keltecs (P32, P3AT and P-11) if you're planning to shoot it a lot - I've owned a P-11 and used all three, and they're absolutely terrible in terms of trigger pull, accuracy, and perceived recoil. If they're just going to be for carry there's pretty much nothing else in their class in terms of weight/size for the price, and they are in my experience mechanically reliable.

I like the Bersa Thunder, the Mak, and the Star BM. I've owned all three (foolishly sold my BM) and found them all pleasant to shoot, mechanically reliable, and in the case of the blowback Bersa and Mak, extremely accurate.

Second the comment on weight, though - the Mak and Star are small but VERY heavy for their size. Even the Bersa is really too big for a 'pocket' gun
 
kt p32

my keltec has been through over 150 rds and has gone bang every time the trigger was pulled. the p32 trigger pull is a lot better than my bersa model 383. the .32 is weak, however, and the kt in 9mm has a heavier trigger pull.i have to agree that the taurus snubbie would be a great choice, but if you want an auto, the makarov is the way to go. it's probably more dependable than the venerable 1911. the mak round is also more powerful than the .380 7 one can order ammo at a lower price than .380. and i'd much rather have a keltech than a raven or a hi-point-the hp is too bulky.ugly, too.
 
There are certain laws in nature that we must accept.

1) The heavier the pistol, the less felt recoil.
2) The lighter the pistol, the more recoil passed on to the hand.
3) The heavier the pistol, the more likely it will not be carried.
4) The lighter the pistol, the more likely it will be carried.
5) Lightweight pistols aren’t as much fun to shoot as heavy pistols.
6) Featherweight pistols are more likely to jam due to limpwristing than mechanical failure.
7) If you intend to shoot a lot and carry little, buy a heavy pistol
8) If you intend to carry a lot and shoot only for proficiency, buy a lightweight pistol.
9) If you intend to carry a lot and enjoy shooting, but two or more guns.
 
Kal-tec .380

I went and bought this gun today for 250$. I shot some winclean rounds through it, and it jammed 4 times out of 45 shots :/

I guess its the clip? I'm going to have to buy some more magazines. Accuracy was fair for the size. Cute little gun.
 
Kel-Tec P-11. Holds eleven rounds of 9mm, with the factory magazine, and fits in your front pocket.
 
Kel-Tec now offers a 12-round magazine that’s the same size as the 10-round, which gives 13 rounds of +P ammo in that same small package.
 
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