If a suppressor is damaged do you need a new tax stamp to replace it

[ilbob]

That was what jumped into my head when I saw this video.

 

[MachIVshooter]

You would send it back to the manufacturer to be repaired/rebuilt.

 

[pdsmith505]

BLUF: New tube = new silencer = new stamp

I will qualify my answer by stating that the "NFA Handbook" published by the ATF is NOT LAW. However, it is, in many cases the closest thing we have to the opinion of those who enforce the LAW.

That being said, Page 176 of the NFA Handbook (the pdf shows it as pg 188) states:

Q4: If the outer tube is destroyed or damaged beyond repair, may it be replaced?

A: Unless the outer tube is replaced by the manufacturer prior to its removal from the manufacturing premises for purposes of sale or distribution (see Q6), the replacement of the outer tube amounts to the making of a new silencer. For the registered owner to fabricate a new outer tube, he or she must submit an ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm, pay the making tax of $200, and receive ATF approval. The application to make should indicate that the new tube is being fabricated for use in replacing a damaged outer tube on a registered silencer, and the application should indicate the make, model and serial number of the registered silencer. It would be helpful for the applicant to include a copy of the approved registration for the silencer. Assembly of the newly fabricated tube with the other parts of the registered silencer does not require an additional application to make nor payment of another making tax, as the one Form 1 will provide permission to fabricate the new tube and to assemble it with the old silencer parts. The replacement tube must be marked in accordance with 27 C.F.R. § 479.102. The registrant may use the same serial number that appeared on the damaged tube. If the registered owner wishes to acquire a replacement tube from a person other than a qualified manufacturer, the replacement tube must be registered as a new silencer by the other person and transferred to the registered owner in accordance with the NFA and GCA. The other person must submit an ATF Form 1, pay the $200 making tax, and receive ATF approval to make the replacement tube. The replacement tube must be marked in accordance with 27 C.F.R. §§ 478.92 and 479.102. The other person would then transfer the replacement tube to the owner of the damaged silencer, subject to the transfer tax, in accordance with the NFA and GCA. The new tube may be then be assembled with the other parts. The original damaged silencer should be reported to the NFA Branch as destroyed. Alternatively, a qualified manufacturer may replace the tube, report the manufacture on ATF Form 2, Notice of Firearms Manufactured or Imported, and transfer the replacement tube to the owner in accordance with the NFA and GCA. The transfer must comply with the $200 transfer tax and all other provisions of the NFA, as it would be a new silencer. The replacement tube must also be marked in accordance with 27 C.F.R. §§ 478.92 and 479.102. The required markings include an individual serial number and the name, city, and State of the manufacturer who replaced the tube. The replacement tube may not be marked with the name, city, and State of the original manufacturer of the silencer, as this would be a false marking. Although the new tube is a new silencer for purposes of the NFA, it would be a replacement firearm of the same type as the original silencer, and it may be returned directly to the registrant in interstate commerce in accordance with 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(2). The original damaged silencer should be reported to the NFA Branch as destroyed.

 

[WestKentucky]

Let’s assume you send in a damaged suppressor to be repaired, and it’s beyond repair. Could Suppressors-R-Us just rebuild you an identical unit to what you originally bought, serialized the same, and return it? Or would they have to chop up the can and at least reuse the serial stamped portion to maintain legal status and get your property back to you repaired without a 6 month wait and a stack of paperwork.

 

[pdsmith505]

Let’s assume you send in a damaged suppressor to be repaired, and it’s beyond repair. Could Suppressors-R-Us just rebuild you an identical unit to what you originally bought, serialized the same, and return it? Or would they have to chop up the can and at least reuse the serial stamped portion to maintain legal status and get your property back to you repaired without a 6 month wait and a stack of paperwork.

BLUF: New tube = new silencer = new stamp...

Unless the outer tube is replaced by the manufacturer prior to its removal from the manufacturing premises for purposes of sale or distribution (see Q6), the replacement of the outer tube amounts to the making of a new silencer. ...

Which is awkward, considering the ATF wrote this letter in 1998:

Dear Mr. :

This is in response to your letter dated December 26, 1998,
regarding if a licensed manufacturer may replace a broken or
defective silencer, returned for repair.

Yes, a licensed manufacturer may repair or replace a defective
silencer, with a new silencer bearing the same serial number as the
defective silencer.

The owner of the silencer should receiver permission from Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for the transfer by completing and
mailing ATF From 5 (Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and
Registration of a Firearm), to the National Firearms Act Branch
(NFA) and receive approval prior to the delivery. The manufacturer
should do the same prior to returning the silencer. Only the face
of the form need be completed in each instance.

We have enclosed blank Form 5, and instruction sheets which you
will find helpful in completing the enclosed form.

If we can be of further assistance, please contact us at (202)
927-8330.

Sincerely yours,

[signed]
Kent M. Cousins
Chief, National Firearms Act Branch

Then followed up by clarifying in this letter... (I'll omit the quotation, click the link if you'd like to read it).

Then there is this letter, from 1999... (partial quote of what is relevant):

...
Our letter state "A silencer which is unusable due to a
manufacturer's defect, may be replaced without incurring transfer
tax, only if the silencer is returned to the original manufacturer
for repair and the original manufacturer is licensed as a
manufacturer of firearms and has currently paid SOT as a
manufacturer of firearms." Only the original manufacturer may
replace a defective silencer with one bearing the same markings and
without incurring transfer tax. If the original manufacturer of
the silencer is no longer qualified to manufacture NFA firearms,
such as by no longer being in business, they any replacement would
involve the making of a new silencer with the appropriate
registration and transfer tax.
...

With ALLL of that being said, I believe that the Bardwell Letters I have been quoting predate the whole "Gemtax" fiasco where Gemtech asked the ATF about AAC "rebuilding" Gemtech cans (properly read as, AAC putting gemtech's info an the old serial numbers on completely new cans as "repairs") which led to the current ATF opinion expressed in the NFA handbook in my previous post (quoted at the top of this one as well).

So, latest opinion from the ATF is that new tube = new can = new stamp.

 

[dogtown tom]

Let’s assume you send in a damaged suppressor to be repaired, and it’s beyond repair. Could Suppressors-R-Us just rebuild you an identical unit to what you originally bought, serialized the same, and return it?

No, for the reasons given above.

Or would they have to chop up the can and at least reuse the serial stamped portion to maintain legal status and get your property back to you repaired without a 6 month wait and a stack of paperwork.

As noted above A NEW TUBE requires a new stamp.

 

[WestKentucky]

Which is awkward, considering the ATF wrote this letter in 1998:



Then followed up by clarifying in this letter... (I'll omit the quotation, click the link if you'd like to read it).

Then there is this letter, from 1999... (partial quote of what is relevant):



With ALLL of that being said, I believe that the Bardwell Letters I have been quoting predate the whole "Gemtax" fiasco where Gemtech asked the ATF about AAC "rebuilding" Gemtech cans (properly read as, AAC putting gemtech's info an the old serial numbers on completely new cans as "repairs") which led to the current ATF opinion expressed in the NFA handbook in my previous post (quoted at the top of this one as well).

So, latest opinion from the ATF is that new tube = new can = new stamp.

So just exactly how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

We shouldn't expect any different from the goobers at the gooberment.

 

[pdsmith505]

So just exactly how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

We shouldn't expect any different from the goobers at the gooberment.

Of course not. The tax has nothing to do with you having a silencer... but it has everything to do with the transfer of a specific silencer.

They don't particularly care that yours was melted in a fit of fully-automatic joy...

The really interesting part is that, in several instances, SilencerCo has repaired badly damaged tubes (see here for the damage: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/11/15/seriously/ I can't find the ARFCOM thread handily) by shortening them, and apparently it's all above board.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The really interesting part is that, in several instances, SilencerCo has repaired badly damaged tubes (see here for the damage: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/11/15/seriously/ I can't find the ARFCOM thread handily) by shortening them, and apparently it's all above board.

ATF holds that lengthening them increases performance and is therefor manufacturing a new silencer, but shortening and rethreading in the event of damage is just a repair.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I watched the video. The silencer glows, warps and gets blasted apart in 56 seconds firing a machinegun with a continuous belt of ammo.

Definitely, if I did that, I would expect to report the silencer destroyed to have it removed from the NFA registry and expect to pony up the cash to pay for a new silencer with a new serial number and tax stamp.

My father told me of firing his BAR until the barrel glowed in the dark in the Battle of Lone Tree Hill (6th Inf Div, Maffin Bay, New Guinea, Sep 1944); the barrel was ruined. I suppose that machinegun in the video (barrel glowing on a firing range with electric lighting) needed a new barrel at least. Proves what I've been told: Cyclic rate (rpm) is not the same as practical rate of fire.

 

[wally]

Let’s assume you send in a damaged suppressor to be repaired, and it’s beyond repair. Could Suppressors-R-Us just rebuild you an identical unit to what you originally bought, serialized the same, and return it? Or would they have to chop up the can and at least reuse the serial stamped portion to maintain legal status and get your property back to you repaired without a 6 month wait and a stack of paperwork.

Nope, new tube equals new suppressor and tax to be paid.

I had a failure in one of my Gemtech Multimount 9mm supressors where the tube fractured. They covered it under warranty and ate the $200 tax. By some quirk in the law they could ship it direct to me once the paperwork cleared instead of having to go through a local SOT for a transfer. They included a letter attesting to the destruction of the original suppressor, which I stapled to the form for the original suppressor.

I thought Gemtech handled the situation admirably and although the entire process was slow, it was painless on my end.