If the 1911 and Glock 21 were both made in the year 1911

[ugaarguy]

The top tier training/LE/Mil guys agree; M&P, Glock, FNH, ....they still have their 1911 hobbies.

MARSOC, LAPD D Platoon, FBI HRT, and other top tier units agree on 1911s as the best tool for the job. A friend who's a retired US Army E8 Spec Ops instructor has used 1911s in combat overseas (COTS replacement for their ineffective M9s), and prefers 1911s to his current dept. issued Glock.

 

[buckskinbob]

It Just aint right ta go comparin a real gun, The 1911 with no plastic, seriously the original glock caliber 9mm. is the 45 set on stun. it does little to stop a perp. high on drugs. the good ole boys tried to replace the 45 cal with a 38 [about equal to a 9mm] and during the moro uprising all it did was piss them off. hence back to the 45cal.
history is just repeating itself. All that a high capacity magazine does is give poor shot a spray and pray mentality. the real shooters still use steel guns. My buddy has a Glock and when i shoot it the stupid trigger bites my trigger finger, not a pleasent expierience. the accuracy in O.K. on a a sihllouette target but not on a par with my 4 digit 1911 and you just cant get one any older than that. The most comfortable is the Luger that grip just fits my hand.



















it just don't5 seem right to compare a gun with a plastic

 

[JTQ]

In December of 2004 the U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command at the Rock Island Arsenal awarded SIG SAUER a contract for 5,000 SIG SAUER SP2022 pistols chambered in 9mm.

They must have bought a bunch of pistols, since the same organization also bought 5,000 Ruger P95's.
http://www.ruger.com/corporate/news/2004-12-23.html

The Air Force is issuing the Glock 19

While I'm sure it is possible, and some units may be buying them with unit funds, I'm not sure they are truly an issue item as I think the M9 is still the issue USAF sidearm.

 

[ugaarguy]

The US Air Force is not issuing the Glock 19. One US Air National Guard unit bought Glock 19s with unit funds during the first Gulf War because they hadn't received the M9s that were to replace their 50 year old 1911s.

As the US Army TACOM purchase, TACOM oversees purchasing of arms for issue to allies we're supporting - like the new Iraqi Army and Police.

Just what is the point

The point is that another poster asserted that top tier police and military units have relegated 1911s to hobby use, and choose other pistols for work. My post was a counter to that false assertion by listing top tier police and military units who've chosen 1911s for work, and not hobby use. DEA general issue is not top tier, and does not compare to issue by true top tier units like the FBI's HRT.

 

[powder]

Here it is, the dandy that says it all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj5Kcs4dzro

 

[JTQ]

ugaarguy wrote,
The US Air Force is not issuing the Glock 19. One US Air National Guard unit bought Glock 19s with unit funds during the first Gulf War because they hadn't received the M9s that were to replace their 50 year old 1911s.

I'm sure you're probably right about the Guard unit buying the G19's, but I'm pretty sure they would have been replacements for S&W K-Frames in .38 Special, unless the Guard guys were using something different than the active duty guys.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I'm sure you're probably right about the Guard unit buying the G19's, but I'm pretty sure they would have been replacements for S&W K-Frames in .38 Special, unless the Guard guys were using something different than the active duty guys.

I know that .38's were standard issue for most AF units up until the M9 took over, but there were so many M1911's in inventory that it would not surprise me if they were used by both Guard and a few active duty units. I know that my grandfather was issued a 1911 until he retired in the late '70s (final years in a Guard unit).

 

[TAKtical]

I have an $1800 1911 and its a great gun, worth every penny. That being said, I carry a glock 17 every day. Im not a "glocks are better than 1911's" guy. The glock just fits my needs more than a 1911. Ive used hundreds of pistols over the years and the only pistols I own now are 1911's and glocks. I only carry glocks because they are lighter, have better mag capacity, and Ive changed the trigger to be as 1911ish as possible. 2.75 pounds with no pre-travel. For target and competition shooting, the 1911 is almost impossible to beat. For concealed carry and self defense, I will always use a glock.

 

[Pete D.]

If the 1911 and Glock 21 were both made in the year 1911

"If......were" = past subjunctive mood. Used to express conditions contrary to fact.
The Glock wasn't. The 1911 was. Done.
Now....if you were to speculate about the future......
Pete

 

[45_auto]

I only carry glocks because they are lighter, have better mag capacity, and Ive changed the trigger to be as 1911ish as possible. 2.75 pounds with no pre-travel.

LMAO.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I only carry glocks because they are lighter, have better mag capacity, and Ive changed the trigger to be as 1911ish as possible. 2.75 pounds with no pre-travel.

To each his own......but 2.75 lbs does not make it "1911ish", I have a Remington 700 with a 2.75lb trigger that isn't "1911ish".

2.75 lbs is definitely light for a carry gun, most people won't go under 4.5 lbs on a carry gun.

What modifications have you made to the trigger to accomplish this? And What was your reasoning for going with a sub-3lb trigger for a carry gun? Not trying to be snide, just wondering.

 

[vba]

1911Tuner, "Excluding the grips and the ejector...I can take a true 1911 completely apart in about a minute with nothing at all other than the gun's own parts."

The grip screws can be removed with the grip safety leaf spring, I've done it.

 

[allaroundhunter]

1911Tuner, "Excluding the grips and the ejector...I can take a true 1911 completely apart in about a minute with nothing at all other than the gun's own parts."

The grip screws can be removed with the grip safety leaf spring, I've done it.

And just like that, the "Tuner" will be even better at what he does

 

[TAKtical]

Accuracy at 25 and 50 yards. Glockworx fulcrum trigger kit. Glockworx firing pin safety and spring, titanium striker, stainless guide rod. I say 1911ish because it is a very short, smooth trigger pull that I can adjust from 2.75lb to factory weight. I like the trigger light because it lends itself to better accuracy. At 25 yards i can punch out the bullseye on a 6inch shoot-n-c. There have been numerous debates about adjusting the trigger for your carry gun but no one has ever gotten sued for it. If it was a good shoot, it was a good shoot.

 

[1911Tuner]

The grip screws can be removed with the grip safety leaf spring, I've done it.

As long as they're not too tight.

The original grip screws were dished in the bottoms of the slots so that a case rim could be used as an expedient screwdriver. Another one of those little things that present-day clone makers have overlooked...like sear and hammer pins that sit flush with the frame. People have griped about "poor quality control" when they discover those pins that stand .003-.005 inch proud of the frame on some pistols...but they're supposed to be that way...so the thumb safety doesn't scratch it.

 

[buckfynn]

"If......were" = past subjunctive mood. Used to express conditions contrary to fact.
The Glock wasn't. The 1911 was. Done.
Now....if you were to speculate about the future......

^^^Exactly!^^^ And such is why threads like this one rarely lead to productive conversations IMO.

 

[coolluke01]

Near sightedness, ignorance and lack of understanding the reasoning behind this discussion is the problem. Not the discussion.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by TAKtical: There have been numerous debates about adjusting the trigger for your carry gun but no one has ever gotten sued for it.

Do you have some way of supporting that assertion?

If it was a good shoot, it was a good shoot.

I'm afraid that's an incredibly naive statement. It may have been a 'good shoot", but to avoid criminal conviction and/or civil liability, it is necessary that others, staring with the investigators, the charging authority, possibly a grand jury, and perhaps civil and/or criminal trial juries, decide, on the basis of the available evidence, that they believe it was a "good shoot."

The trigger pull will be tested, and if it is found to be particularly light, a plaintiff's attorney will have no difficulty finding expert witnesses who will testify about the likelihood of a light pull contributing to an unintentional discharge under stress, contradicting the defendant's claim of justified, intentional self defense. There's money in it.

There is also risk from the standpoint of a criminal negligence finding.

 

[rcmodel]

Regardless of that, a 2 1/2 pound trigger on a gun with no safety is too light for SD use.

Our minds and body's do strange things we didn't anticipate when under a great deal of stress.

A simple twitch of your finger can make a shoot a bad shoot real real fast!

rc

 

[1911Tuner]

The trigger pull will be tested, and if it is found to be particularly light, a plaintiff's attorney will have no difficulty finding expert witnesses who will testify

Yep, and that's why the trigger any 1911 that I carry...which is seldom these days...is set between 5.5 and 6 pounds, as per ordnance blueprint spec.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

My 5" Kimber is at 3.5 to 4 lbs using a buddy's Lyman tester. This is not my carry pistol but it is within reach of the pillow.

 

[TAKtical]

There is no case law anywhere in the united states showing that a lightened trigger pull has caused someone to be sued or charged in a self defense situation in which they responded appropriately. Please prove me wrong and show me a case where this has happened. As far as your comment about unintentional discharge, my finger isnt on the trigger until im ready to shoot. Idk how you were trained or how people do things where you are from or how many real life self defense situations you have been in. All I can say is that my argument would be that since I am responsible for every round that exits my barrel, I modify my weapons to make them as accurate as possible. And yes, a good shoot is a good shoot. If you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. Maybe you are one of those shaky handed nervous types that are likely to squeeze off a round before you are ready, but im not and im not worried about it.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by TAKtical: There is no case law anywhere in the united states showing that a lightened trigger pull has caused someone to be sued or charged in a self defense situation in which they responded appropriately.

Case law refers to judicial precedence--the establishment of law via the ruling of appellate courts. Not the question here.

Please prove me wrong and show me a case where this has happened.

The burden of proof is upon you to prove your assertion, but don't bother--one cannot prove a negative.

As far as your comment about unintentional discharge, my finger isnt on the trigger until im ready to shoot.

See how far that gets you.

If you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear.

Naviete again, I'm afraid.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by 76shuvlinoff: My 5" Kimber is at 3.5 to 4 lbs using a buddy's Lyman tester.

This post suggests that that might be a little on the light side.

 

[TAKtical]

You will not find a case to support your claims. It has never happened and never will happen. You are obviously not a trained professional or a lawyer. I am and my wife is a lawyer. We have searched long and hard to find one case that supports this urban legend. There is nothing anywhere to support your claims. Dont put out false info on a matter that you know nothing about.