If you are interested in a new M6 survival rifle look here
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Dionysusigma
Member
.22 WMR is a teensy bit bigger in case diameter. The difference is small enough that a chamber insert would almost be as thick as a piece of regular printer paper.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
WMR vs .22 LR
The Long Rifle version uses a heel-based bullet, with case and bullet diameter very close together, while the bullet of the WMR cartridge is seated and crimped into the case, as per standard centerfire cartridges. Case diameter is
larger by the thickness of the case wall X 2 over bullet diameter. I suppose you could conceiveably make an insert from a fired .22 WMR case...I suppose...hmmmm
nahhhh
The Long Rifle version uses a heel-based bullet, with case and bullet diameter very close together, while the bullet of the WMR cartridge is seated and crimped into the case, as per standard centerfire cartridges. Case diameter is
larger by the thickness of the case wall X 2 over bullet diameter. I suppose you could conceiveably make an insert from a fired .22 WMR case...I suppose...hmmmm
nahhhh
Tim L
Member
how about .223 with a .22wmr adapter and a .22 long rifle adapter. I might have to look into one also.
Tim
Tim
Stiletto Null
Member
You know, I like the 5.7x28 idea.
ID_shooting
Member
Count me in the "20 ga might be too much" crowd.
I would like to see .223 and a 410 package, but make the 410 tube able to shoot .45 LC or 45/70 as well. Gotta keep Yogi at bay you know.
I would shell out 300 smackers right now for one.
I would like to see .223 and a 410 package, but make the 410 tube able to shoot .45 LC or 45/70 as well. Gotta keep Yogi at bay you know.
I would shell out 300 smackers right now for one.
i like that idea, you want a survival rifle to be as versitile as possible. with the ability to fire .223 for medium game, .410 for small game. 45/70 for "da bears!" some kind of adapter for 223 to 22 would be nice, but how would that work. a center fire to rim fire?
Carl N. Brown
Member
M6 new
The original USAF M6 was a 14" barreled folding survivalgun that
fit under the seat of a bomber., in caliber .22 hornet and .410
The barrel length makes it an NFA item. A firm in Atlanta
converted SA M6's to USAF format as a SBS NFA firearm.
The shell casings of the USAF .410 ammo were metal.
The .22 hornet rounds were supposed to be FMJ.
The Squeezer trigger was toi allow operation with arctic mittens.
The butt trap held Nine .22 Hornet, Two 2.5 in. ,410 and
Two 3 inch .410. Two of the .410 were usually flare shells.
I have a Springfield Armory M6 Scout in .22lr and .410
The civilian legal version has 18 inch barrels.
The SA version butt trap holds fifteen .22 and four 3" .410
I did away with the lawyer-mandated trigger guard since it
actually interferred with my safe use of the trigger.
I wrapped the barrel with parachute cord.
I installed sling swivels and a Red-dot 'scope.
I put .22 stinger (long shelf life) and plastic ,410 in
the trap, and slipped a band holding nine .410 over the butt.
Nice car trunk gun for trips to the mountains and
fits folded into a case for a large Thompson-Center pistol.
MY WISH M6
- .22 hornet over a .45 Long Colt-.410 16" rifled barrel.
- Ammo trap Seven .22 hornet Six .45/.410 (instead of Nine and Four)
- USAF arctic trigger (no trigger guard)
- rear stud for detachable swivel.
- source for .410 flare loads
- AND A BETTER JOB OF REGLATING RIFLE BARREL AND SHOTGUN
BARREL TO SAME P.O.A.
The weight is barely sufficient for shooting 3" five #00 buck loads.
Do not want to see it lighter. Kicks enough as is.
The original USAF M6 was a 14" barreled folding survivalgun that
fit under the seat of a bomber., in caliber .22 hornet and .410
The barrel length makes it an NFA item. A firm in Atlanta
converted SA M6's to USAF format as a SBS NFA firearm.
The shell casings of the USAF .410 ammo were metal.
The .22 hornet rounds were supposed to be FMJ.
The Squeezer trigger was toi allow operation with arctic mittens.
The butt trap held Nine .22 Hornet, Two 2.5 in. ,410 and
Two 3 inch .410. Two of the .410 were usually flare shells.
I have a Springfield Armory M6 Scout in .22lr and .410
The civilian legal version has 18 inch barrels.
The SA version butt trap holds fifteen .22 and four 3" .410
I did away with the lawyer-mandated trigger guard since it
actually interferred with my safe use of the trigger.
I wrapped the barrel with parachute cord.
I installed sling swivels and a Red-dot 'scope.
I put .22 stinger (long shelf life) and plastic ,410 in
the trap, and slipped a band holding nine .410 over the butt.
Nice car trunk gun for trips to the mountains and
fits folded into a case for a large Thompson-Center pistol.
MY WISH M6
- .22 hornet over a .45 Long Colt-.410 16" rifled barrel.
- Ammo trap Seven .22 hornet Six .45/.410 (instead of Nine and Four)
- USAF arctic trigger (no trigger guard)
- rear stud for detachable swivel.
- source for .410 flare loads
- AND A BETTER JOB OF REGLATING RIFLE BARREL AND SHOTGUN
BARREL TO SAME P.O.A.
The weight is barely sufficient for shooting 3" five #00 buck loads.
Do not want to see it lighter. Kicks enough as is.
These adaptors have been available for a long time. They use a rear center plug to adapt from center to rimfire.
I'm sticking with a modified Savage 24 design and not the M 6 . I want the extra pellet count of the 20ga as well as the power of the 20ga. slug. That doesn't fit well with the M6 design in my opinion.
Some interesting idea's being tossed out here and I realy have always wanted a decent combo rifle shotgun with some updated modern features. I have a picture in my head, but nobody makes one close enough to the picture. And the price on the Savage is not reasonable enough for me to start with and then modify them into what is closer to what I want would just add to that.
I would love for .22LR and .410 to be one of the available caliber options.
I would buy one in a minute, and could easily see paying $250 to $295 retail for one, especially if it was American made.
Unfortunately, you can't shoot .22 LR out of a .22 MAG.
I would buy one in a minute, and could easily see paying $250 to $295 retail for one, especially if it was American made.
Unfortunately, you can't shoot .22 LR out of a .22 MAG.
Rob62
Member
I’d like to see the caliber / chambering be 20ga under .223. There should be a dedicated .22RF chamber adapter. I think that this RF chamber adapter should be stored in a place designed for it in the stock.
There is lots of flexibility in this chambering combination. Specially with the rimfire chamber adapter.
Ideally I would like to see something along the lines of a no frills Savage 24. Most important should be that everything is SOLIDLY made. Dropping a Caribou hind quarter on it should not cause someone to immediately think "Gee I hope my gun is OK". Imagine something along the lines that would have been made in Russia during the height of the cold war. Sights should definitely be open with an aperture rear.
As to what would be a fair price, I guess that around $200-$250 would move these rifles to a lot of interested people. Again this rifle/shotgun should be nothing fancy. Just solid, reliable, and fairly accurate.
Rob
There is lots of flexibility in this chambering combination. Specially with the rimfire chamber adapter.
Ideally I would like to see something along the lines of a no frills Savage 24. Most important should be that everything is SOLIDLY made. Dropping a Caribou hind quarter on it should not cause someone to immediately think "Gee I hope my gun is OK". Imagine something along the lines that would have been made in Russia during the height of the cold war. Sights should definitely be open with an aperture rear.
As to what would be a fair price, I guess that around $200-$250 would move these rifles to a lot of interested people. Again this rifle/shotgun should be nothing fancy. Just solid, reliable, and fairly accurate.
Rob
Carl N. Brown
Member
How about a civilian legal version of the Russian
Suyuz space ctaft survival gun?
The original is a .double 20 ga over a .22 cenerfire rifle.
Suyuz space ctaft survival gun?
The original is a .double 20 ga over a .22 cenerfire rifle.
I just recently bought a NIB stainless SA M6. The trigger guard is easy to remove. Drill the pin out on a drill press. I think the only real flaw of the M6 is the folding rear sight. Seems too fragile to me.
I would like an M6 in 22wmr and 454 Casull/.410.
I would like an M6 in 22wmr and 454 Casull/.410.
Rob62
Member
I thought about this topic for a while. I think it’s important to fully understand what this type of a firearm is designed for. I look at this from a point of view that this is the kind of firearm that will get stored in a Bush Pilots survival bag and left in the storage compartment of the plane for extended periods of time. Alternatively someone that travels remote areas either by 4 wheel drive or snow mobile would probably also find a use for this type of weapon. Lastly someone that owns a large pleasure boat may also be interested in one of these guns.
Yes there are other firearm options that may be better suited to each of these situations but the idea is to get one that will do the job of a few in an Emergency situation..
First and foremost I believe that ruggedness and a sturdy design are of the utmost importance. This type of gun may be tossed in the bottom of some hold or in a pick up tool box. It will suffer lots of bumps and having other equipment tossed on top of it and get generally tossed around. Something that will easily break is not what is needed. Think Sherman Tank. If this was a shotgun only, it would be a no brainer – the single shot H&R Topper would top the list. Totally simple, rugged as heck and fairly light in weight. If they made (maybe they do) a stainless steel model that would be ideal. The finish needs to be something that will not rust easily. I know that using stainless steel for the entire gun may be cost prohibitive but I still really like it for an application such as this.
Next is caliber choice. Since this is strictly a survival gun, meaning at least to me, a gun that can be used to acquire animals for food and possibly used to defend yourself from both two and four legged predators. I believe it would only be logical to rule out a .22RF and .410 shotgun combo. A .22RF and 20ga would work as well as the .223 /20ga combo I suggested previously. But I believe that overall versatility would be best if it was capable of firing multiple commonly available cartridges. Why commonly available cartridges – because if ultimately you discover that the ammo for the gun is missing it would be much easier to find this type of ammo in some remote areas than some calibers that have been recommended. Lastly I apply the K.I.S.S. principle here and easy to find ammo meets this principle. Also a premium 20ga slug is capable of stopping all but the most determined big predator such as a big Bear.
Last is simplicity and accuracy. The design should be as simple as possible. If the gun can be completely taken apart with a basic drift punch ala Glock pistol so much the better. But a simple design should not take away from sturdiness. The sights should be first and foremost made as durable and rock solid as possible. For some reason Wilson Combat Ghost Ring sights come to mind. This sight is about as rugged as it gets. And yet it still can easily be adjusted.
Take down and size. I believe that the design should be capable of being taken apart in order to reduce storage space. There should also be some way to store ammunition on the actual firearm. A hollow stock / pistol grip storage compartment would be great.
Maybe selling this gun with some type of hard “Pelican” type case would be a good idea. It would keep everything in one place plus help keep the gun from getting banged around in transport and storage.
Rob
Yes there are other firearm options that may be better suited to each of these situations but the idea is to get one that will do the job of a few in an Emergency situation..
First and foremost I believe that ruggedness and a sturdy design are of the utmost importance. This type of gun may be tossed in the bottom of some hold or in a pick up tool box. It will suffer lots of bumps and having other equipment tossed on top of it and get generally tossed around. Something that will easily break is not what is needed. Think Sherman Tank. If this was a shotgun only, it would be a no brainer – the single shot H&R Topper would top the list. Totally simple, rugged as heck and fairly light in weight. If they made (maybe they do) a stainless steel model that would be ideal. The finish needs to be something that will not rust easily. I know that using stainless steel for the entire gun may be cost prohibitive but I still really like it for an application such as this.
Next is caliber choice. Since this is strictly a survival gun, meaning at least to me, a gun that can be used to acquire animals for food and possibly used to defend yourself from both two and four legged predators. I believe it would only be logical to rule out a .22RF and .410 shotgun combo. A .22RF and 20ga would work as well as the .223 /20ga combo I suggested previously. But I believe that overall versatility would be best if it was capable of firing multiple commonly available cartridges. Why commonly available cartridges – because if ultimately you discover that the ammo for the gun is missing it would be much easier to find this type of ammo in some remote areas than some calibers that have been recommended. Lastly I apply the K.I.S.S. principle here and easy to find ammo meets this principle. Also a premium 20ga slug is capable of stopping all but the most determined big predator such as a big Bear.
Last is simplicity and accuracy. The design should be as simple as possible. If the gun can be completely taken apart with a basic drift punch ala Glock pistol so much the better. But a simple design should not take away from sturdiness. The sights should be first and foremost made as durable and rock solid as possible. For some reason Wilson Combat Ghost Ring sights come to mind. This sight is about as rugged as it gets. And yet it still can easily be adjusted.
Take down and size. I believe that the design should be capable of being taken apart in order to reduce storage space. There should also be some way to store ammunition on the actual firearm. A hollow stock / pistol grip storage compartment would be great.
Maybe selling this gun with some type of hard “Pelican” type case would be a good idea. It would keep everything in one place plus help keep the gun from getting banged around in transport and storage.
Rob
I now know a lot more about .22WMR than I did before(which was nothing). If I can't have .223 over 20 gauge then my vote is for .223/.410 and it comes with a chamber insert for .22 LR. I like the Savages but the 8 pound weight that they list on the Savage website scares me off. Do they really weigh that much?
Dionysusigma
Member
Yes... they do. 
Outdoor America had one for a while, and though it was kinda neat, it still seemed to be more of a novelty than anything else. Certainly not something I'd want to rely on--I'd've taken mu M48 Mauser before that gun.
Outdoor America had one for a while, and though it was kinda neat, it still seemed to be more of a novelty than anything else. Certainly not something I'd want to rely on--I'd've taken mu M48 Mauser before that gun.
M.E.Eldridge
Member
- Joined
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- 367
Personally, I'd like to see a 45 colt rifled barrel over a .410 smooth bore barrel. That would work well for deer sized game with the 45 colt and small game with the .410. Both calibers would be pretty good at close range self defense, though I wouldn't want single shot as my first self defense if I was expecting to get attacked.
renegade1alpha
Member.
I own an M6 Scout rifle and I love mine. And in answer to those who have inquired several times, NO you cannot shoot .22 CB, Short, Long or Long Rifle out of a .22 WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) There is just enough difference that the round will flop around in the chamber.
Unlike the the .357 being able to fire .38 Special because it is a shorter case length, the .22 WMR is an altogether different round.
Unlike the the .357 being able to fire .38 Special because it is a shorter case length, the .22 WMR is an altogether different round.
Gordon
Member
I have 2 m6s, one stainless and BOTH .22 Hornet.Now I like the Hornet and it is a deer killer, but maybe the .22 mag would be better as it is certainly cheaper to find ammo and you can shoot quiet WRF that sound like .22LR. The .22mag has a good rep as a slaughter gun for the largest beasts.
Now a .410 is OK and due to the latest SD ammo like 5 000 pellets and 1/4 oz sabot slugs,it is a formible and viable SD round too. 3" # 7.5 shells take birds cleanly to 100'. I would like to see a removeable choke, and maybe with a rifled Paradox tube to spin .45 LC loads.
If you have fired an M6 much .410 seems the limit to me. I think just a folding trigger guard to let it fold all the way would be a plus. I have no complaint with the triggeraction as is, it is useable. The whole system is well thought out. Made of CNC stainless with quality assembly I'd pay $399.
Oh and please put a rail on the barrel as standard, on top and underneath!
Now a .410 is OK and due to the latest SD ammo like 5 000 pellets and 1/4 oz sabot slugs,it is a formible and viable SD round too. 3" # 7.5 shells take birds cleanly to 100'. I would like to see a removeable choke, and maybe with a rifled Paradox tube to spin .45 LC loads.
If you have fired an M6 much .410 seems the limit to me. I think just a folding trigger guard to let it fold all the way would be a plus. I have no complaint with the triggeraction as is, it is useable. The whole system is well thought out. Made of CNC stainless with quality assembly I'd pay $399.
Oh and please put a rail on the barrel as standard, on top and underneath!
paintballdude902
Member
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WOOOOOHOOOOOO i love ti when people bring 34 year old threads back to life, but hey atleast who ever did it searched.
id love to have an m6 with an actual trigger in 7.62x39 over a .410
id love to have an m6 with an actual trigger in 7.62x39 over a .410
Driftertank
Member
Personal preference:
.223 (because ammo can be found cheap and plentiful at wally-world, and makes a decent all around small/medium game round, even if it is a little stouter than .22)
Over:
.410/.45LC (not much of a wingshooting round, but for birds on the roost, it's about perfect, and the ability to chamber .45LC would give it enough wallop to make me feel safer around black bears - though nothing short of .30-06 would make me feel safe around griz; but I digress.)
And I'd pay between $300-400 depending on finish.
.223 (because ammo can be found cheap and plentiful at wally-world, and makes a decent all around small/medium game round, even if it is a little stouter than .22)
Over:
.410/.45LC (not much of a wingshooting round, but for birds on the roost, it's about perfect, and the ability to chamber .45LC would give it enough wallop to make me feel safer around black bears - though nothing short of .30-06 would make me feel safe around griz; but I digress.)
And I'd pay between $300-400 depending on finish.
No!!
It is a rather old thread, but this topic comes back up from time to time. My comment above was apparently done before I found what I was looking for. I have put together a Savage Model 24V that I purchased off the boards here some time back. It had bad barrels, and I was able to purchase it at a price that allowed me to do my project.
Sorry I can not post pictures here on this thread - they were already posted before and the system will not allow me to re-post them ?
What I have is an older Savage varmint model that was .222Remington over 20ga.. I started by re-building the barrels as they had been damaged down to 14&1/2 inches, so they needed perminant extensions to legal length. This was done by using a FAL muzzle brake on the top barrel, and a tube extension on the bottom. (silver soldered in place) The two barrels were fired and tuned to shoot to the same point of impact at 25-30 yards. Then joined together at the front. The shotgun barrel was threaded for choke tubes . The .222 Rem. chamber was taken out to .223 Remington. Compartments were built into the forearm and butt stock to hold some extra ammo, and to hold a chamber adator from .223 Remington to .22 Rimfire.
I re-finished the metal with gun-kote bake finish in OD green and painted the wood with a tuff wheel rim black . Butt plate and grip cap were made of 1/4 inch aluminium plate for durability.
So, at the end I have a gun that shoots .223 Remington, .22 Rimfire , 20ga. in shot, or rifled slug, or sabot slug, as I have a screw in choke with rifling to stabilize the sabot rounds.
It is light weight, compact, and shoots well. It is the all around gun I had in my mind back when this thread started, and it came together for me in a firearm I am very pleased with.
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