If you can't get a gun......

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Speedo66

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Guns are attributed in the US media with a high rate of violence, but as this article points out, where you can't get a gun, a knife becomes the substitute. Metropolitan Police in London report a 24% increase in knife crimes over last year.

It seems young people are starting to pack a knife, rather than an unobtainable gun, to protect themselves from others with knives. These are not gang members, just ordinary youth in a dangerous situation.

Here's the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/03/...iolence.html&eventName=Watching-article-click
 
That's why I hate the term "gun violence". It shouldn't matter what tool is used, it's all violence and it can all be deadly.

London is already getting a bit ridiculous with "knife control". A co-worker of mine was arrested while on his honeymoon in London a few years ago. He was in line for the giant ferris wheel, and saw the sign that no knives were allowed to he asked about his pocket knife. They in turned measured the blade, saw that it was too long and therefore "illegal" and called the police. 4 hours later he and his wife were back on the street after getting booked. The police were nice about it as they've dealt with that a lot with American travelers, but they still didn't let him off the hook.
 
Weren't there actual sword (and machete) fights im Scotland years back that helped push the "no knife" agenda. I vaguely recall reading about that like 15 years ago.

At the end of the day, criminals are going to be criminals and use whatever they can to achieve their goals. Take away all weapons and the biggest, meanest guys will rule them all.
 
At the end of the day, criminals are going to be criminals and use whatever they can to achieve their goals. Take away all weapons and the biggest, meanest guys will rule them all.
We already have places where only the police have any sort of weapons and the residents have none. Yet these places are still very dangerous...... They are called Prisons.
 
Lots of Londoners bought baseball bats during the troubles a few years ago. Cricket bats are also popular form of self defense tool. Of course, the bad guys also carry them, claiming they are going to and from a game.

It's a violence problem. People will always try to find a way to increase their odds in case of a confrontation.

.
 
Throughout Britain, there are knife amnesty boxes where you can dump those dangerous pocket knives. They are often labeled with signs like "Save a life, drop a knife." If guns were really the problem that caused violence, why would knives ever be used? A question no anti can answer.
 
I visited London in 2008 and was amazed to see exactly the kind of after effects that people here have warned of if we banned guns. Basically, the new scapegoat was knives. Those evil knives.

In the Tube (subway), posters were hung that said "If you carry a knife, you're a criminal." And "Help fight knife crime - don't carry a knife." It was utterly bizarre.

See this article:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/28/beyond-the-blade-the-truth-about-knife-in-Britain

The parallels to "gun violence" programs here in the US are startling:
"The answer to Fola’s mother’s question – “How many more of our children have to die before the government act?” – is both damning and complex. Many more children will die from knife-related violence; indeed, four more have been stabbed to death since she posed it. But it is not because the government and related agencies are not acting. Pretty much every week, somewhere in the country, there is some kind of initiative to tackle “knife crime”’ – an amnesty, a new charity in the name of the fallen, an appeal from police, a mayoral statement.

The trouble is that these efforts seem to have little effect.
That might be because efforts to make a positive intervention are dwarfed by all the things the government is doing that are making the situation worse. These deaths occur at a moment when the country has made a conscious decision to defund and under-resource its young. When you slash youth services, underfund child mental health services and make swingeing [sic] cuts to education and policing, there will be an effect. The most vulnerable will suffer. Austerity didn’t invent knife crime, but it is certainly contributing to the conditions in which it can thrive."

Ban guns, they'll ban knives. Then bats. Then heavy objects, rocks, sticks. I mean the issue here isn't the tool used to commit the crime, it's that more individuals are deciding (sometimes impulsively) to commit the crime. The argument here is, well if you don't have a knife, then you can't impulsively stab someone and commit a crime. Doesn't turn out well for your law-abiding self when Evil Jimmy pulls his knife on you because he wants some money for food or booze. Then you're left with giving him your money, or life, or both. But no hope of fighting back. It's a human instinct to protect yourself.
 
These are not gang members, just ordinary youth in a dangerous situation.

However, the British press is saying that gang warfare is becoming "embedded in their culture" whatever that means.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/29/knife-crime-14-gang-warfare-becoming-embedded-culture/

Look at that display of evil knives! Horrifying! Center right is a couple of kitchen knives. Turned in for a "knife amnesty." :\

They might try to blame gangs, but then quote only 1 of the 6 deaths mentioned were gang related. There is a percentage here of ordinary youth who are looking to protect themselves from those who mean them harm.

Check this out too. Make the smart decision! (Headphones might be a good idea)
http://noknivesbetterlives.com/young-people/the-consequences/a-life-changing-decision
 
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Ban guns, they'll ban knives. Then bats. Then heavy objects, rocks, sticks. I mean the issue here isn't the tool used to commit the crime, it's that more individuals are deciding (sometimes impulsively) to commit the crime. The argument here is, well if you don't have a knife, then you can't impulsively stab someone and commit a crime. Doesn't turn out well for your law-abiding self when Evil Jimmy pulls his knife on you because he wants some money for food or booze. Then you're left with giving him your money, or life, or both. But no hope of fighting back. It's a human instinct to protect yourself.

I wonder if they'll ever have a rock buy back program?
Are you allowed to buy cutlery sets or do you need some kind of special permit for that?
 
I wonder if they'll ever have a rock buy back program?
Are you allowed to buy cutlery sets or do you need some kind of special permit for that?

Doctors some time back in the UK urged banning of "dagger-style kitchen knives" because pointy knives are just a remnant of tradition, and not really needed to be pointy.

Per the UK Police website:
It is illegal to:
  • sell a knife of any kind to anyone under 18 years old (16 to 18 year olds in Scotland can buy cutlery and kitchen knives)
  • carry a knife in public without good reason - unless it’s a knife with a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less, e.g. a Swiss Army knife
  • carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife
  • use any knife in a threatening way (including a legal knife, such as a Swiss Army knife)
https://www.police.uk/crime-prevention-advice/possession-of-weapons/

The utopian future without guns is here, everyone - it's the UK. And knives are the new guns.

Oh, and they also ban "zombie knives" in the UK too. Seriously. See police link above.
 
Some criminals will always own guns. Whether it's legal or not. The very fact they have guns makes them criminals. So why should they care if it's legal or not. This has been argued by logical people forever here. We aren't the ones who need convincing.
 
The obvious has been stated, the problem isn't guns, it's violence. The underlying root is denial of absolutes. Whether you believe those absolutes to be derived by divine decree, longstanding adoption by Western Civilization or merely societal norms. When right and wrong become fluid, everyone is entitled to their own "truth", it becomes impossible to make a cogent argument for responsible behavior. The result is to blame an inanimate object for wrong-doing, because the individual is somehow "oppressed" if you attempt to hold them accountable for their actions.

It becomes "politically incorrect" to hold people accountable for their actions. So scapegoats must be found. If that scapegoat can be used to further an agenda, so much the better (for those who hold the agenda). The gun gets blamed. The person resisting unprovoked violence gets blamed. The economy gets blamed. Everyone and everything but the person who chose to commit violence gets blamed.

Sadly, I do not see a solution to this barring a seismic shift in the values and culture of Western Civilization. This mindset has become entrenched in most of Europe and the Americas to varying degrees.
Well, there's my dose of pessimism for the day. Time to eat dinner and relax for the evening.
 
I find this amusing, from the police website:

"Banned knives
Examples of knives that are completely banned are:

  • disguised knife
  • stealth knife & baton
  • sword
  • zombie knife
This is not a complete list of banned knives and weapons. Contact your local police to check if a knife or weapon is illegal."

Of course, if you present the knife and it's is illegal, what do you think there is a good chance of happening? They don't mention anything about amnesty. lol
 
I don't even think violence is the problem. There is "violence" in almost every aspect of nature. Mankind has been fighting since there was something to fight about. The problem is that today, people don't know how to reason with one another. And the VAST majority people don't know how to take their licks and go home and let the situation be over. Everything now has to escalate until bloodshed. And there are so many causalities for this that I don't think I could stay awake long enough to type them all out. And even if I did, I think it's still just preaching to the choir.

Banning weapons is such a socialist utopian joke. If it can be held in your hand, someone can find a way to kill you with it. Even then, you don't need anything more than fists, elbows, knees, and feet. Soooo, let's ban everything distal of the shoulder and everything distal the pelvis. Except somebody could still headbut someone to death. Or lay on top of them and smother them. So it's all just a never ending river of ignorance, stupidity, and struggle for ultimate power.

Did I mention how thankful I am that we have the Second Amendment?
 
London is already getting a bit ridiculous with "knife control". A co-worker of mine was arrested while on his honeymoon in London a few years ago. He was in line for the giant ferris wheel, and saw the sign that no knives were allowed to he asked about his pocket knife. They in turned measured the blade, saw that it was too long and therefore "illegal" and called the police.

I visited England a couple of years ago (I had lived there for 5 years as a child, but that is another story), and made sure that I was well versed with the knife laws before I went. We also rode the "London Eye", and I also had to check my pocket knife. Since it was a small Case with blades < 3" I was good to go and nobody batted an eye.

If you are traveling some place, especially a foreign country, it is in your best interests to become familiar with the laws. If he had decided to drive on the right they wouldn't have given him a pass either.
 
I was stationed in London way back in 83-84 before all the anti-gun hysteria took hold.

I wish I could find the original article, but several years ago there was a story of a London shop keeper finding a "live and fully charged" round on the sidewalk in front of his shop. He called the police, who dispatched a team to recover it.

It was a .22LR o_O
 
I was stationed in London way back in 83-84 before all the anti-gun hysteria took hold.

I wish I could find the original article, but several years ago there was a story of a London shop keeper finding a "live and fully charged" round on the sidewalk in front of his shop. He called the police, who dispatched a team to recover it.

It was a .22LR o_O

I recall that, though I thought it was a .22 short.

Remember, it was fully capable of going off and killing someone!
 
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