If you had to do it all over again

[someguy2800]

All that and still have the time to load up 150 rounds per hour!

Lol, yep believe me I get where your coming from, I'm progressive shopping to do 9mm and 38 special now.

Where a turret makes the most sense is for someone that does alot of different calibers in relatively low volume. Most of my 20 or so different calibers I load are in small batches. Usually 20-50 rounds at a time to just fill up the ammo box. Alot of these I only have 50 rounds of brass for. In this case if I just want to load 30 rounds of 444 marlin I would bet anything I can do it faster on my turret than anyone could on there progressive because of setup time. All I have to do is drop in my turret head, put primers in the tray, and dump some powder in my electronic powder dispenser. 4 cranks of the hand takes the same amount of time as the dispensor takes to weigh a charge. So it would take me like 15 minutes to fill up my box again including setup time and cleanup. Its very efficient.

If your loading in large batches it gets monotonous though. I have really increased the volume of pistol that I shoot in the last couple years so where I used to sit down and load an ice cream pail of 38 special on a saturday afternoon and call it done for the next few months, I can barely keep up with what I'm shooting now. So I agree if your objective is to load a few pistol calibers in volume, I think I would go straight to a progressive.

 

[thomas15]

You can not check one scale with another scale. You need a set of check weights.

Amen Brother and when was the last time you saw a poster on this board with their entry level "kit" price list include a $50.00 check weight set to go along with their $22.00 plastic powder scale? Answer: never.

I say all the time you need at a very minimum $500.00 in hand (more is better) before you should consider getting started and routinely get pounded into submission by an army of salesmen on commission with definitive price lists that prove that I know nothing.

Some things that routinely are left off shopping lists include check weights, pullet pullers, case tumblers, tumbler media, case prep tools that actually work, primer tools that actually work, case gages and loading bench infrastructure. Funny thing is the ones that do defend their incomplete price lists or justify not having items that should be included, those people have these things just pretend that they are not needed. I have a relatively small (but nice) bench that is 7.5 feet long made with some recycled and left over materials and even with that I have more than $500.00 cash out of pocket in that rig.

Where, may I ask, is the logic of spending $85.00 for the (very well made and useful) inlinefabrications ultra mount for a $100.00 press?

There was a guy some time ago that posted all the time here, haven't seen him for a while but he had 13 turrets each with dedicated auto drums and safety primes but still only putting out maybe 200 rounds per hour. Reality would say 13 turrets ($150.00), 13 auto drums ($460.00) 13 safety primes ($260.00) and everyone here would give the old thumbs up and go gaga. Almost $900.00 in stuff for his turret press and still 150 rounds/hour. Logic would say, skip the turrets buy a Dillon 650 from the start for the cost of his add-ons and crank out a months worth of ammo in less than 2 hours.

 

[thomas15]

If your loading in large batches it gets monotonous though. I have really increased the volume of pistol that I shoot in the last couple years so where I used to sit down and load an ice cream pail of 38 special on a saturday afternoon and call it done for the next few months, I can barely keep up with what I'm shooting now. So I agree if your objective is to load a few pistol calibers in volume, I think I would go straight to a progressive.

Good.

Again, the OP asks what would you do different and I say don't listen to those who say "I did it this way and you should also". I made that mistake and got a single stage that I grew out of in 1 month. Went to the "semi-progressive" (right) turret press and thought I was so smart until I decided to load up a winters worth of 9mm (6000 rounds) so I could avoid being in my unheated garage in the winter. At the 2000 round mark I was thinking maybe there is something to getting g a faster press. At 4000 rounds, after wiping the frozen sweat off my forehead I started looking at press options and when I finally made to the 6000 round mark I had had the make and model picked out and on order. It took me almost 3 months to make 6000 rounds. Long and boring.

 

[MidRoad]

As far as the LCT kit. How are the primer tools and case trimmer? Not worth it?

Edit: let's not turn this into an argument guys. I'm reading everyone comments and putting together a list of what to get. Everything has been helpful thus far. I'll post the list later tonight and get some opinions

 

[kcofohio]

As far as the LCT kit. How are the primer tools and case trimmer? Not worth it?

Edit: let's not turn this into an argument guys. I'm reading everyone comments and putting together a list of what to get. Everything has been helpful thus far. I'll post the list later tonight and get some opinions

The Safety Primer? Or the primer pocket cleaner. The safety primer does well IMO. The primer pocket cleaner will get put in a drawer somewhere to be forgotten.
The case trimmer, usually not needed for handgun cases. If you do a lot of rifle reloading, there are better choices.

 

[ray15]

As far as the LCT kit. How are the primer tools and case trimmer? Not worth it?

I don't use the primer feeder. The primer pocket cleaner and the case chamfer tool are very basic. I don't use the scale. I sometimes use the case trimmer, but it's only part of it (need to purchase guide and shellholder) and that can be bought separately. If I had to do again I would buy the LCT but not the kit. Here's what I would get:

Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee 4 Die carbide set (comes with shellholder)
Lee Auto Drum Powder measure
Lee Auto Disk Riser (works with drum too)
RCBS Primer tray and fingers (can use Safety Prime feeder if you have an extensive vocabulary of four-letter words)
Good digital scale (I use RCBS Rangemaster 2000, but many ways to skin this cat)
Hornady cartridge gauge (SAAMI minimum)
digital calipers ($20 variety that are everywhere are serviceable)

I had not loaded anything in 25 years before buying the above about a year ago. I've loaded ~12,000 rounds of various calibers on it and am adding more all the time. Yes a progressive is faster, but I can do 100 rounds in 25 minutes on the LCT, so it's really cost-effective and in my mind about ideal if you load several calibers in sane quantities. I would not have wanted to deal with the extra complexity of a progressive press while learning the ropes, so to speak, but may add one (or 4) in the future.

 

[Toprudder]

As far as the LCT kit. How are the primer tools and case trimmer? Not worth it?

I use the Lee safety prime mounted on the LCT press. I have their hand primer but never use it.

I routinely use the Lee case trimmers, but I get the cutter that has the 8/32 screw so I use it with my powered case prep center.

Somebody mentioned getting a Chargemaster for dropping powder. I enjoy doing load development and I really wish I had gotten a Chargemaster sooner. It can be used as a regular scale, or can be set to automatically weigh and drop powder - great for load development where I typically will have 5 rounds of each charge, and 5 or more charge levels.

If you are planning on doing a lot of .223 or .308, then get a Dillon Super Swage. I tried a couple other routes and finally broke down and got the Dillon.

 

[MidRoad]

I don't use the primer feeder. The primer pocket cleaner and the case chamfer tool are very basic. I don't use the scale. I sometimes use the case trimmer, but it's only part of it (need to purchase guide and shellholder) and that can be bought separately. If I had to do again I would buy the LCT but not the kit. Here's what I would get:

Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee 4 Die carbide set (comes with shellholder)
Lee Auto Drum Powder measure
Lee Auto Disk Riser (works with drum too)
RCBS Primer tray and fingers (can use Safety Prime feeder if you have an extensive vocabulary of four-letter words)
Good digital scale (I use RCBS Rangemaster 2000, but many ways to skin this cat)
Hornady cartridge gauge (SAAMI minimum)
digital calipers ($20 variety that are everywhere are serviceable)

I had not loaded anything in 25 years before buying the above about a year ago. I've loaded ~12,000 rounds of various calibers on it and am adding more all the time. Yes a progressive is faster, but I can do 100 rounds in 25 minutes on the LCT, so it's really cost-effective and in my mind about ideal if you load several calibers in sane quantities.

Excues the dumb question . But what is the riser for? I'm assuming use the auto drimninstead of the auto disk?

 

[ray15]

Excues the dumb question . But what is the riser for? I'm assuming use the auto drimninstead of the auto disk?

Nothing dumb about it. The riser just extends the powder measure so it clears the collet on the top of the sizing/depriming die. It can be used on either the disk or drum measure. The Auto Drum is the latest Lee measure, and is the one I use and recommend for the LCT.

 

[MidRoad]

Nothing dumb about it. The riser just extends the powder measure so it clears the collet on the top of the sizing/depriming die. It can be used on either the disk or drum measure. The Auto Drum is the latest Lee measure, and is the one I use and recommend for the LCT.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Blue68f100]

If you have any physical problems it's very important to address it. Like tennis elbow, repetitive motion will just aggravate it. So a AP will reduce this greatly in the number of strokes you have to make. Also you need to be comfortable in what your doing. A bench too high or to low is harder on your body. You will notice this as you get older. It must be solid if your going to run a AP. I moved up to a LNL-AP when I started needing volume. A SS was killing my elbow in as little as 50 rounds, 1/4 way through what I needed at a minimum. In the same amount of time on my LNL-AP I was producing 10x what it was taking me on a SS. The thing I liked best about the LNL-AP was the quick change bushings. This allow you to run as a SS only by installing 1 die. This is nice when your setting up a new set of dies. Set one, install the next and set it, etc.. till all dies is set. Then you start buy running 1 pc of brass all the way through to confirm the settings before running full stations. With full stations you will be required to make a small tweak on the seating die to accommodate base flex, normally <0.005". I'm probably one of just a few that prime on the press. The primers seating system on the LNL-AP is better than most once you have it setup properly. 99% of the time those having problems do not have it set correctly. Then you must develop a feel for this too, which takes time. It also takes a little time to prep the primer pockets so it runs smoothly. This is only needed to be done once.

I would not hesitate in starting someone on a AP if he/she had some mechanical ability. They also need to be detail orientated (OCW) too. Without these it may turn them off against handloading. Safety is the number 1 thing to keep in the forefront. Just remember your making controlled explosions to launch a projectile. Step over that line and normally someone gets hurt, besides tearing something up.

 

[MidRoad]

I use the Lee safety prime mounted on the LCT press. I have their hand primer but never use it.

I routinely use the Lee case trimmers, but I get the cutter that has the 8/32 screw so I use it with my powered case prep center.

Somebody mentioned getting a Chargemaster for dropping powder. I enjoy doing load development and I really wish I had gotten a Chargemaster sooner. It can be used as a regular scale, or can be set to automatically weigh and drop powder - great for load development where I typically will have 5 rounds of each charge, and 5 or more charge levels.

If you are planning on doing a lot of .223 or .308, then get a Dillon Super Swage. I tried a couple other routes and finally broke down and got the Dillon.

Would you recommend the charge master AND a good scale?

 

[cp1969]

If you're short on time and don't "like" reloading, by all means, a progressive is the way to go.

For 20 years I did all my reloading on an RCBS Jr single stage. Thousands upon thousands of rounds, never one misfire, hangfire, overload or squib. Not one, ever. After getting a progressive, I did.

 

[someguy2800]

I don't use the primer feeder. The primer pocket cleaner and the case chamfer tool are very basic. I don't use the scale. I sometimes use the case trimmer, but it's only part of it (need to purchase guide and shellholder) and that can be bought separately. If I had to do again I would buy the LCT but not the kit. Here's what I would get:

Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee 4 Die carbide set (comes with shellholder)
Lee Auto Drum Powder measure
Lee Auto Disk Riser (works with drum too)
RCBS Primer tray and fingers (can use Safety Prime feeder if you have an extensive vocabulary of four-letter words)
Good digital scale (I use RCBS Rangemaster 2000, but many ways to skin this cat)
Hornady cartridge gauge (SAAMI minimum)
digital calipers ($20 variety that are everywhere are serviceable)

I had not loaded anything in 25 years before buying the above about a year ago. I've loaded ~12,000 rounds of various calibers on it and am adding more all the time. Yes a progressive is faster, but I can do 100 rounds in 25 minutes on the LCT, so it's really cost-effective and in my mind about ideal if you load several calibers in sane quantities. I would not have wanted to deal with the extra complexity of a progressive press while learning the ropes, so to speak, but may add one (or 4) in the future.

I agree with everthing above except that I do use the safety prime feeder and I like it. It drops every 100th primer on the floor which doesn't bother me but does bother some.

Also with the autodrum measure, if you turn it all the way counter clockwise it will clear without the riser. I have one but it just sits in my drawer as I have not found that I need it for anything.

 

[ray15]

I agree with everthing above except that I do use the safety prime feeder and I like it. It drops every 100th primer on the floor which doesn't bother me but does bother some.

I'd be OK with that, but the best I can achieve is to drop a few out of the first 50 out of the feeder, at which point the change of balance from the weight change caused by only having 50 in the feeder upsets the rickety affair and it starts dropping them everywhere. I stopped trying once I figured out I could stick them in the primer arm's cup by hand just as fast as I could operate the pez dispenser. But I understand some like and use the device.

Also with the autodrum measure, if you turn it all the way counter clockwise it will clear without the riser. I have one but it just sits in my drawer as I have not found that I need it for anything.

I've already got one Auto Drum with a buggered attachment assembly - I like the measure tight with no o-ring installed. These days I leave the measures attached to their risers and move both from one set of dies to another. I don't agree with the Lee 'finger tight' philosophy.

 

[someguy2800]

My recomendation on scales is if your going to do alot of load development or loading rifle in small qty get a Lyman gen 6 powder dispensor or a chargemaster. I use the lyman and I prefer it to the chargemaster. Its less sensitive to vibration and interference and is very easy to clean out. If your just doing pistol loads just a quality small electronic scale is good enough.

I have a Redding beam scale as a sanity check but I never use it anymore. Instead I use two check weights. I have a small ball bearing that weighs 12.4 grains, and my scale pan reads 76.7 grains. When i turn the scale on I zero it, set the scale pan on to verify it reads 76.7 grains, zero it, put the ball bearing in the pan to verify it weighs 12.4 grains, and lift the pan up to verify it reads -76.7 grains. As long as it continues reading -76.7 grains every time I pick up the scale pan I know its still zeroed. It is good to have a beam scale just to check your check weights so you know you can trust the electronic. Quality old cast iron beam scales are available on Ebay for less than $30. Mine is a Redding one made in the 1940's. Gravity has not changed and it will still work after civilization is over.

 

[GBExpat]

If you had to do it all over again based on what you learned from reloading over the years what would you recommend for beginners?

With what I know now and how much & what I shoot I would have started with an LCT ... if that were an option in the 1970s.

The LCT can easily also be used as a Single Stage press.

Once I had gotten familiar with the LCT (I used an RCBS JR3 Single Stage press for ~40 years) I found that I had a ceiling of ~200 handgun rds/hour (when I was focused upon the task).

I later found that I had increased that production ceiling by ~50% with the addition of an InLine Fabrication accessory. I wrote about some of my testing here:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lct-inlinefab-1hr-production-rate.806894/

 

[MikeInOr]

A buddy of mine at work started with a Dillon 550 and he never had any issues with his first press being a progressive. He sold the Dillon 550 to our boss (also his first press) and bought a Dillon 650 after he tried my 650. Neither my coworker or boss had any trouble starting with a progressive.

30 years ago my first press was a progressive (RCBS 4x4), it was a very poor design but I loaded a fair amount of ammo on it. I was thrilled when I upgraded to my Dillon 650 a couple years later. It was many years after that before I added a single stage RCBS RockChucker to my reloading bench. I bought the single stage to get into reloading target rifle ammo, but soon found that the Dillon produced just as good if not better target rifle ammo. I mainly use the Rockchucker to trim rifle cases with the Dillon power case trimmer. I have no issues reloading rifle ammo on my Dillon 650 but prefer the single stage for case trimming.

If you know someone that has experience with a progressive that can give you some pointers you should have no problem starting with a progressive. If you start with a progressive with no assistance I would recommend loading a single bullet at a time through the progressive while you are learning (put a single case in station one, pull the handle 5 times (for Dillon 650, 4 times for 550) and follow that single case through the process pulling the case at each station to inspect it then returning it to the press for the next operation. Dump the powder from the case onto your scale several times to make sure that you are loading the charge you want! Dump the powder from the case onto your scale several times to make sure that you are loading the charge you want!. Dump the powder from the case onto your scale several times to make sure that you are loading the charge you want!

If you feel more comfortable starting with a single stage or turret press there is certainly nothing wrong with starting there!

 

[Arkansas Paul]

As far as the LCT kit. How are the primer tools and case trimmer? Not worth it?

Lee's presses, dies and trimmers are great.
For me, it goes downhill from there.

Their powder measures, priming tools and scales just feel like cheap Fisher Price toys to me.
We have 2 of the Challenger single stage presses and one turret press, and 80% of our dies are Lee. We love them. If the Lee dies were the same price as RCBS or Hornady, I would still buy the Lee pistol dies. They are that good.

But I'll use my RCBS powder measure. My scales are one RCBS 5-0-5 and a Hornady digital.
They just feel like real tools.

Others have had success with the other Lee stuff, but I'd rather pay a few dollars more.

 

[MidRoad]

I'm all for paying extra for quality. It's sounds like the LCT will suite my needs perfectly. But if I need to shell out extra cash for other things than that's what I'll do. Just like my hand tools at work, there's a reason why I buy snap on ratchets,but have Craftsman sockets or Milwaukee electric tools because the snap on cordless guns are terrible even though they say snap-onbon the side.certain things you just gotta pay extra for,but that's not always the case.

Here's what I would get:

Lee Classic Turret Press
Lee 4 Die carbide set (comes with shellholder)
Lee Auto Drum Powder measure
Lee Auto Disk Riser (works with drum too)
RCBS Primer tray and fingers (can use Safety Prime feeder if you have an extensive vocabulary of four-letter words)
Good digital scale (I use RCBS Rangemaster 2000, but many ways to skin this cat)
Hornady cartridge gauge (SAAMI minimum)
digital calipers ($20 variety that are everywhere are serviceable

Ray15's list sound real solid. Other things to add to the list from other suggestions are:

-Reloading books lymans 50th and reloading abc's
-rcbs bullet puller /hammer puller
-check weights/beam scale
-possibly an electronic powder despensor.
-deburring tool
-hornady quick shot spray
-dry tumbler
Other suggestions that would be needed? I have a good bench my father told me to take. Primer prep tools?stuff not mentioned

Edit to add further suggestions from someguy2800

 

[someguy2800]

I like the hammer type bullet pullers since they work with everything and don't mar the bullets. A can of Hornady one shot is handy to clean and smooth up dies. A cheap hand held case deburring tool. I would also add a dry tumbler and corn cob media eventually. Your first couple loading will be fine not cleaning the brass but after awhile they will get pretty fouled.

If you get into loading bottleneck rifle you'll need to add a trimmer but you can cross that bridge when you get there. I have a whole bench full of little tools and things but never use most of it.

 

[Paladin7]

Here's my advice... (caveat, I'm very concerned with my own safety and the safety of those around me)

1. READ. Get the ABC's of Reloading, the Speer Manual and the Hornady Manual. Read the details on how to reload cover to cover in all three, and especially pay attention to the section on checking for over pressure. That will save you a lot of headaches and potential danger. I cannot emphasis this point strongly enough. The information contained in these manuals will save your life. Plus, you will have manuals with a ton of reloading data that you can cross reference when working up loads.

2. Start with a Single Stage or Turret Press Kit. That will give you the ability to learn the ropes safely and you will never outgrow this machine. I started with an RCBS Rockchucker Supreme Kit and still use the press and all the included tools to this day. The Kit gives you almost everything you will need. I mainly load Rifle calibers on my single stage and use it to deprime brass these days. If I were to do it all over, I would probably have bought the Turret Press in a Kit. A Redding or Lyman Turret would be the way to go. Some have started with a Progressive, but believe me, for a newbie, that is a problem waiting to happen. Reading about something and doing it are two very different things and a progressive press has a lot going on that you don't need to be distracted with when learning. The Turret Press will also allow you to safely increase the volume you reload.

3. If you go with a Single Stage Press, convert it to use the Hornady Lock n Load Bushings or the Lee equivalent. That will make life a lot easier. Since you can set your dies once and easily install and remove them without having to re-set the dies.

4. Lee Dies are fine to start with. They load excellent ammunition, are easy to adjust and are very price competitive. The 4 Die Carbide Pistol Set will eliminate the need to lube your pistol brass and you get the Lee Factory Crimp Die. This way you can seat and crimp in separate operations and the carbide sizing ring on this die will iron out any issues with your case before you shoot it. The Lee Dies also come with a shell holder and powder dipper. Other manufacturers charge for this.

5. Stick with a traditional beam type scale to start, like the RCBS 5-0-5. They are a lot less finicky than the electronic scales. These scales will be included if you buy a press kit. You can buy a set of check weights to ensure your scale is accurate. I've found mine very accurate and repeatable.

6. Use a powder baffle in your powder measure. The Powder measure is generally included in a press kit. The baffle may or may not be included. The baffle will help make your charges more consistent. It's a piece of bent metal that sits in the measure and holds the powder above it, while allowing powder to trickle down to the hopper while preventing stacking.

7. Invest in an LE Wilson Cartridge Gage for each caliber you load for. This will ensure your brass and loaded rounds are in spec. I like LE Wilson, since they cater to the high precision crowd and their tools are very accurate.

8. Get a Collet Bullet Puller Die, like those made by RCBS or Hornady. You will need to purchase a caliber specific collet for each caliber you load for, but this will make disassembling rounds easy and safe. Don't waste money or time with an inertial bullet puller.

9. Get a notebook and accurately record your load information. That notebook will really come in handy. Capture your caliber, case make, powder charge, primer make and bullet make, weight and type. Also, date you reloaded the rounds.

10. Invest in a good set of dial calipers.

11. Wear Eye Protection

12. One other tip that will help...Invest in a Lee Universal Decapping Die and a Frankfurt Arsenal Wet Tumbler for cleaning your brass. Decap the fired dirty brass with the Universal Decapping Die, then throw it in the wet tumbler and let that machine clean your brass (AND primer pockets) to like new condition. These two items have been game changing for me!

Starting with a friend who is experienced is a good way to go, but remember... READ FIRST, so that you can ensure the information your friend tells you is accurate.

Let us know how you make out and if you have any questions, post them or PM me...

 

[Paladin7]

That video is impossible for me to watch and learn anything... between the boobs, legs and accent, I'm completely bamboozled...

 

[farm23]

What accent and there are more to watch. Go Edgar Brothers, actually it is well done.

 

[MidRoad]

I'm a little on the slow side. May take me 5-6 times through to fully wrap my head around it.