If you were going to build a defense AR-15, with the best of everything, what parts?

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^ Why not just use the Noveske barrel from the get-go? Don't they use M249 barrel blanks? Double-chrome lined and the best possible barrel steel. I think that in a semi-auto AR-15 it would the the proverbial cockroach. Long after you and I are gone, it'll still be around.

The Noveske is a highly refined AR, made without cutting any corners as all firearms should be. On the other hand, the KAC SR-15 is an evolution of the AR platform. Its gas system is longer than a midlength's and shorter than a rifle's leading to increased reliability and a softer recoil impulse compared to carbine and midlength ARs. The SR-15's proprietary bolt has several improvements (i.e., rounded lugs, dual spring extractor, stronger cam pin and firing pin). The KAC BUIS is capable of being used out to 600m, not that I can see out that far. And its barrel is top notch as well. A well-known trainer, Travis Haley (formerly of Magpul Dynamics), has 80,000 documented rounds through the barrel of his SR-15.

On top of that, the balance of the SR-15 has to be felt to be believed. It feels much more lively than my Noveske.
 
JP bolt made from better steel than milspec (e.g. BCM) http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.7_bc.php#1, though i'd put it in a BCM carrier.
I'm going to strongly disagree. A couple (few?) years ago someone here on THR asked why AR bolts were made from Carpenter 158 steel, rather than something stronger & newer. My reply was that you don't want the bolt to be made from stronger steel than the carrier, and especially not the barrel extension. You want the easiest to change part to be the one that wears out first. A bolt is easily carried on the rifle (PG or butt stock storage compartment), and is easily swapped out with no tools. The carrier is easily swapped as well, but is a bit harder to carry, and, other than the carrier key, they don't wear out. The barrel extension, as we know, is an armorer level replacement with specialized tools required. YMMV.
 
so you want to build a shtf rifle....

that's cool,

cmmg m4 profile upper
cmmg lower part kit
any milspec lower, cmmg, spikes, stag, double star...(like someone said before, they are the same)

i recommend BUIS and keep it light as possible, last thing you need is a heavy shtf rifle, another thing is mags... get as much as you can but 10 is my standard, keep them loaded in a bag next to the rifle.
 
A few options:

1) The aforementioned KAC SR-15 is arguably the best rifle yet made that can still be called an AR15. The main drawbacks are price and proprietary parts. The only part on it that can really be improved is the trigger - the KAC trigger is good, but the Geissele SSA has been shown much more durable in use by the military.

2) The LMT MRP CQB is quite similar to the SR-15 but uses fewer proprietary parts (only the barrel extension and upper receiver are totally incompatible, although it also uses a slightly different gas tube). It's under $2k and IMHO is the best AR15 that has mostly interchangeable parts.

3) Going to a standard pattern AR15 with all or nearly all interchangeable parts with the Colt standard, I would choose any of Daniel Defense, Noveske, or BCM with their respective hammer-forged barrel options. Standard plastic handguards are very durable, but if you must have a quadrail I would suggest a Daniel Defense quadrail. Use top quality parts in the build - namely parts from those three plus Colt and LMT - and the result should be excellent.
 
Whenever someone asks for information relative to what the "best" of anything is, it always opens a can of worms. I tend to try to stick with what I believe to be better, because determining what is the best is a near impossibility.

Some consider the Noveske to be the best. Some consider the Larue to be the best. Still others will argue for the KAC or some other brand. If I was in an argumentative mood, I'd take each opinion and ask that the proponent to prove what he is saying to be true. It can't be done, unless you consider the recitation of specs to be proof.

My personal beater AR is a parts gun. Although it was built with leftover parts, they are what I consider to be "better" parts. Daniel Defense upper, Spike's lower, Geissele trigger, 14.5" Bushmaster barrel, BCM bolt/carrier group and Magpul furniture. This rifle has been wet, dropped in the mud, banged around, etc and it has over 10K rounds through it, all without a hitch. Are the parts that I used the best? I wouldn't make that claim. Would I trade it for a Noveske? In a heartbeat, although I couldn't give you a tangible reason why.

My point is that there is lots of good stuff out there. I wouldn't lose too much sleep trying to figure out what is the best. Get good parts and put it together right and you'll have a good rifle. The reason that I suggested the Daniel Defense parts in my earlier post is because I do believe that their quality control is very good and that the parts that they have made for them (or manufacture themselves) are held to closer toloerances or stricter standards.
 
All you all forgot the most important part for any SHTF AR...........a parts bag.
A few basic tools, a firing pin or two, lots of cotter pins, roll pins and springs. A spray can of lube/cleaner too
 
Standard Mil-spec with an EOtech works pretty good for the guys in Iraq/Afganhistan and the SHTF pretty much everyday there..........
 
Didn't sabre def. go out of business? I thought they got charged with breaking several import and export laws and had to declare bankruptcy... There website doesn't work.
Yeah, they also are under federal indictment and one of the things they are in trouble for is selling out of spec parts on the internet. The employees were taking the out of spec stuff they couldn't sell to Sam and selling it online.

For that reason and that reason alone I would not ever buy their stuff. I have no way of knowing if I got the good stuff or the junk without considerable effort and time measuring the thing. Definitely not worth the money in that case.

I second Colt for the best all around. I had a new one in the army and I couldn't tear it up easily. After tens of thousands of rounds, it would still shoot a couple of minutes at 600m. Not bad for a rifle that came with a $600 price tag on the invoice! It came with a blank adapter, a sling, and one mag. FN made the one I used in basic, I think they'd be a big seller but they don't make 'em for civvies. Those were TOUGH M16 rifles. NO finish at all left on them, shiny metal. But they worked just fine.

The rifle I am currently building uses a Satern barrel, JP Ent. bolt carrier, RRA two stage trigger, KAC free float rail, and that is about it. The rest of the parts are just quality milspec, like an AR Stoner buttstock, DPMS small parts, and Aero Precision receivers (cheap milspec like the first fellow said).

I'd stick with mostly milspec stuff myself, where I'd splurge is on the barrel and the trigger (but you can make a DPMS standard trigger into a GREAT trigger with a little polishing). The barrel more than anything else determines the accuracy of the AR --get a good one. Satern was the best I could find. The KAC free float is probably as good as the next free float system, but I like it because I have used their stuff a lot and it doesn't fall off in the field. I also have a ton of panels for them, so that helps. The JP bolt carrier is just the nicest I could find. At least it seemed to have the most attention to detail regarding the millwork. It cost $30 more than the next nicest milspec carrier with a bolt, but I didn't need the bolt so I went with the JP.

On the other hand, I have a rifle that I built to see how cheap I could build it. It got Oly receivers, an Oly rail (not as bad as I thought it would be actually) and an Oly barrel and bolt carrier. The internals are a mish mash of stuff I had in my box, the buttstock is army surplus M4 along with the pistol grip. The M4 carry handle (which it seldom wears) is army surplus, either Colt or FN. The trigger is DPMS left over from another build (4.5lb., crisp and just awesome, all it needed was a little work). That rifle shoots about 1.5-2MOA and has been very reliable. I use it for my HD rifle in fact. But I've shot enough through it to know what works and what doesn't. All in all, it cost about $400. It would have maybe cost $600 if I had to buy all the parts I used at once. For a 100% milspec rifle.

If you are doing this for reliability, you may be better off getting the Colt. Just note that when you build a rifle, getting it right is all on you. The best advice I can give on building an AR is to go and get the army armorer manual. The one that shows how to install barrels, the whole nine yards.

Having go no-go gauges are nice too, and you'll definitly need an action block, a vise, and a barrel wrench, as well as the appropriate punches. By the time you invest in all this, you could have gotten a nicer rifle... I'd only invest in the build materials if you plan on building more than one. Or try and find a buddy that wants to build one too and then you each get half the supplies or something.

Oh yeah, also stay away from the bolt on or set screw parts. Like gas blocks; hard to get a pinned gas block these days. That is because they are marketed to the tacticool crowd that hasn't spent a month under a rock in the rain. They are sold to folks that want to take off their traditional sight tower and replace it with a cool looking flip sight. But the selfsame folks don't own punches or action blocks so they sell them as bolt on pieces. Then they can mangle the old ones off and just bolt on the new ones for that tacticool look. FWIW, I tested a set screw gas block in the army. We just kept loading mags and feeding them into the rifle and pulling the burst trigger ten times, then reload. We did this for a few hundred rounds, let it cool, then did it all over again. After about a 1000+ rounds or so, sparks and gas escaped, and then it just blew it off the end of the rifle. End of that test.

And as far as flip up sights go, why spend hundreds of dollars for a sight that WILL NOT be accurate at distance? The KAC one is made for 600m, sells for $200, and may be good to 300m. And that is the best one. I haven't found a front sight that works at all. Any movement whatsoever negates the usefulness of the sight, especially the front sight. For the price, a backup reflex sight, one of the tiny ones, would be more useful. But what I do is install the regular sight tower. Then I just use the carry handle when and if I need it. It gets tied off on the rucksack, always there if I need it.

For SHTF, just look at what the army uses. Forget the AK, we don't live in a 3rd world backwater. As soon as SHTF, the borders will be locked down, the economy will stall. Good luck maintaining those AK rifles, better luck getting ammo for something you can't easily reload. As I recall, every maker in America makes an AR now. Were I in Russia or Africa, I'd go with the AK. Save the AK for the really bad times when all the AR parts run out... But you'd likely be the last man standing, so perhaps it doens't matter anyway.
 
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This may not be what you want to hear but I wouldn't build an AR for SHTF. I'd build an AK because I'd be less concerned about MOA accuracy than just being tough-as-nails reliable.

I have an AK 47 and 74. I think the reliability difference between AR's and AK's is overblown... and AK's aren't modular like an AR. Good luck scavenging parts from a WASR to fix a Tantal. On the other hand, your chances of scavenging parts from one AR to fix another are excellent.

I think an AR plus a choice selection of repair parts is probably a better SHTF rifle than an AK.

What he said. ^

ARs are much easier to work on, and unless you are a complete doofus when it comes to basic maintenance, are every bit as reliable.
 
yes, because this is a gun forum, not a survival forum.

and if this thread is going to remain open, it will continue to discuss firearms, not water supplies, political collapse, etc

i don't actually think society is going to collapse or that zombies are going to invade. i just want an excuse to build a top notch AR. why build instead of buy? satisfaction of doing it myself.
 
i don't actually think society is going to collapse or that zombies are going to invade. i just want an excuse to build a top notch AR. why build instead of buy? satisfaction of doing it myself.

If that's the case, I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with the Bravo Company website.

Here are the parts I'd use for a top notch build -

BCM BFH 16" midlength upper
Noveske forged flared lower
Daniel Defense LPK
Geissele SSA trigger
LMT enhanced BCG
BCM Gunfighter CH (Model 4 medium charging latch)
Magpul MOE grip
Vltor A5 receiver extension, buffer, and spring
Magpul CTR stock (ACS if I wanted storage)
Troy TRX Extreme 13" (or DD Lite 12" if I wanted a rail)
Troy front and rear BUIS
AAC Blackout FH (or Battle Comp 1.0 if you wanted)
Aimpoint T1 in a Larue Tactical mount
SureFire X300 light
Blue Force Gear padded 2-point sling

I think that would do nicely.
 
If we are talking the best then I would go with a Noveske N4 14.5" midd w/pinned vortexy. Add a rail system, light and an Aimpoint H-1. Perfect defensive carbine. No muss no fuss.
 
Check out Palmetto Armory, they have parts as well as complete uppers, lowers, bcg's...excellent reputation. Very affordable for quality.
 
Dont order a spikes tactical lower unless you want to wait FOREVER (3 months and counting)
I am getting a grendel barrel and upper, but i realize that this isnt to everyones taste or needs. I prefer stainless steel barrels to chromed, but i realize also that most people are going to want chromed. Noveske does a good chrome lined barrel.
I would get a nice monolithic upper if it is in your budget. hard to beat those since few companies make them and the only ones im aware of are very high quality.
You might want to look into the awesome world of bolt carrier groups and coatings. NP3 is pretty good, chrome is better than nothing, very smooth and easier to clean.
Timney or cmc make some nice trigger options.
The whole problem with building an AR is that there are so many good components.
the crap ones are usually easy to spot. The good ones are just hard to decide between.
YHM manufactures a lot of good quality components.
 
Forgive me Mods, I'll make it short:

I must have missed THR conversation 10 years ago that started this fantasy about "finding parts" being an important factor in choosing a gun, like a modular AR. In a truly apocalyptic scenario, you're just going to pick up the dead guys' gun, not sit in a corner and rebuild yours. Guns will be plentiful. Ammo will not. MidwayUSA won't be shipping DPMS uppers if FedEx ain't around.

Now, if you're talking about keeping your gun working for decades to come in a civilized world, that's different.
 
@rsilvers. :eek:

Wow. What did the last 25 do that the first 5 didn't do? Just curious....not knocking the collection at all.
 
Most of them are M16s. Ever since I saw the TV show SWAT as a kid, I wanted a rack of M16s.
 
I would be very happy with a Colt if they made a mid-length gas system, but I can't love a 16 inch barrel 5.56mm rifle with a short carbine gas system.
 
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